[WIP] Middle Earth Strategikon ~60% Complete

[uddhava]

AND FOR EVERYONE: I'm terribly sorry, but I must get some sleep before I continue writing the guide. Didn't get as much done as I wanted, but 20 hours of staring at it is enough! More tonight.

Well thats terribly disappointing. But I suppose you will be forgiven for this lapse in discipline

Uddhava

[Incomitatus]

Jän`s guide was written back in 2009 so it is likely parts of his guide are outdated. I just hope everyone looks at when these guides were made and to which patches they are made for!

Indeed. A lot of what will be in mine will be based off of the mechanics of the game engine, nevertheless some of it can't help but be dependent upon how things work now in TATW 3.2.

Well thats terribly disappointing. But I suppose you will be forgiven for this lapse in discipline

You sir, are a harsh taskmaster!

Oh well, onward!

EDITED TO SAY: Hey guys! So, I just put up sections on Authority, Loyalty, and Obedience (Chivalry and Dread coming soon!) and then looked at the whole guide (so far) and opened up all the spoilers and... my lord, this thing is already huge! Is that okay? Is the level of detail/wordiness acceptable? Does putting so many things in spoilers help or hurt reading it? I'd appreciate some feedback. I really, really appreciate the positive feedback so far, it makes me feel less intimidated to have started this, but what what would be really helpful would be at least some people letting me know what is particularly good, what works, what doesn't work, what isn't clear, what needs improved, etc. Let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong, please!

[uddhava]

Gotta go to work now so I will post some indepth feedback this afternoon but too keep you going in general:

So far it's excellent. The spoilers keep it clear and it is the detail which (to me) makes it good. Although I'm not as adept at 'reading' the game as others I have a lot of experience with TW (owned every game since shogun 1). So it's the extra detail which is interesting for me. It makes me look at the game in a different way. Apart from that, it's also very well written. So keep going!

(and don't forget to post the link to the Royal Military academy in a relevant section for example on traits )

Good luck

Uddhava

[Incomitatus]

Thanks uddhava, I'd +rep you for the feedback, but apparently I need to spread some rep around.

[Ultra123]

i prefer the spoilers immensly, it draws the reader in, and agree its that level of detail almost tolkein-ish that i enjoy most from your works.

keep it up!

[FC Groningen]

I don't mind, but maybe if it becomes too big, a table of contents will work. Organisation and lay out will prevent a huge pile of text becoming unreadable.

[Incomitatus]

I don't mind, but maybe if it becomes too big, a table of contents will work. Organisation and lay out will prevent a huge pile of text becoming unreadable.

Yeah, I'm putting a Table of Contents to each post in the first one. Is there a way to make an internal table of contents inside of a post?

[FC Groningen]

Not entirely sure what you're asking, but at the very least, it's possible to set up 1 table of contents, but one more complex. For example:

Part 1:
- chapter 1:
> section A
> Section B
> Section C

- Chapter 2:
> Section A
> Section B

- chapter 3:
> Section A
> Section B
> Section C

Part 2:

etc. etc.


That will allow you to keep a better overview from 1 location, which is the exact idea behind it. Hope that helped.


edit: But if you're asking if there is some sort of function for it, I am afraid you'll have to do it manually.

[Ultra123]

Since you say that your unsure of evil military tactics

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

5. Most importantly, I pretty much only play 'good' factions in TATW. I feel that, having fought against the evil factions so much, I have a good idea of their basic strengths and weaknesses, but if there is one area where the input of other players would be appreciated, this is it.

i thought id throw my own military tactics out there, regarding orc factions (gundabad, mordor, ootm)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

so to begin to quote incomitatus and answer this little block of questions he puts to us:

1. What are the strengths of my faction? What are my weaknesses?
as a evil player, your strengths are numbers and cheap units with some seriously damaging units in between

2. What are the strengths of my most likely enemies? What are their weaknesses?
your enemys are going to be smaller in number, more expensive, yet far stronger

3. What does the surrounding territory offer that I can take quickly?
mostly strategic value and denying the coins to your enemy to build those nasty elites

4. What do I have to do/seize to be sure I can be secure from my enemies?
constant expansion, knowing my weaknesses

5. Do I benefit more by expansion or development at this time?
expansion most of the game, explained later

6. Can my current situation allow me to grow stronger faster than my enemies?
no, your mostly going to have alot of your 'normal' infrantry from the start, yet with a good fight you will prevail for the dark lord.

7. Do I have potentially useful allies, and if so, do I need to help them? Can I?
yes you do, and generally they dont need help!

so to begin

your armies

Orcs - Orcs are cheap, ugly and useful cannon fodder. the idea with orcs is that you surround and envelope your enemy in numbers to make them rout or hit them in areas weak to them, such as the rear. generally speaking i find raiders do good for the flanking, and the spears for the frontal attack, they kill little but absorb damage better.

Snaga - snaga are worse then orcs, yet happily they are far cheaper. their javelins are totally devastating, the normal infrantry snaga are usefull for charging enemy archers (who cares if they die, just stop the enemy from firing!) easily replaced as well. can also be used for enveloping and flanking enemy units in conjunction with the orcs if you dont have enough orcs or have lost a lot. a nice tactic if your army is heavy on snagas is to send in the snagas on the enemy 1st to tire them out and then use orcs to fight effectively reducing casualtys on your orcs and making them last longer. and once again, Snaga Skirmishers ARE BRILLIANT! send them against dwarves on skirmish mode en masse, they do huge damage, fire them on those amazing gondor cavalry while they are engaged with other snaga/orcs, and they turn to paper mashe!

Orc/snaga archers - are effectively worthless other then to soak up enemy shots, your simply better off charging in their with your orcs instead of a shootout. can be usefull in sieges and flanking.

Heavy Halberds - OOTM and gundabad heavy halberds are really good troops despite their very slow walking speed. you need too shield these with the orcs, get the orcs in combat and order the halberds to walk through the enemy lines (click just behind the enemy unit) once most of them are in the middle of the enemy units click attack and watch them carve them up! especially useful against enemy armoured units (gondor, elves) and in sieges their slowness isnt a problem really even on attack as long as you get em past the archers ok.

morannon guard - only available to mordor these are a bit better then the goblin halberds, they move like normal units. these are your elite guys, they should be doing the flanking, killing enemy bodyguards, and being protected the most. use in a similar fashion to the above.

Trolls - This is your trump card the, huge HP heavy hitting and knock down units, extremely effective and capable of winning entire battles that are going lopsided for you on thier own. locked morale so they cant rout too! however, that doesnt mean they should go charging headlong into the foght (much like you see the stupid ai do). dont orde rthem to attack the same time as other orcs either they run very fast and will reach the enemy early. the trick with trolls is to engage AFTER the orcs have, and preferably from the sides or rear. they can also be very deadly bodyguard killers since they can rech the cavalry before they build momentum to run away, though dont use them on eleven foot bodyguards unsupported as they are nasty sods. you need to watch out for archers, archers en masses (4 units or more) concentrating fire on the trolls is a death blow, you might not see it but those arrows are actually reducing the hit points of your trolls making them very weak and able to be killed very easily in melee. also siege weapons(catapult balista) goes without saying. in sieges trolls can oddly enough be sent up ladders onto walls and practically wipe out anything up there thanks to the close confines, use this to your advantage, this is the only time id recommend throwing the trolls in 1st. Olog-Hai for morder are the same as above but more armoured better attack and more resilient, essentially are more buffed version. make sure you charge with the trolls, its very devastatng

Goblin/orc/uruk Bodyguard - these guys are all actually ok in a fight however the general always seems to die extremely fast! try to keep them away from the main fight or flank, you wont be relying on these a lot like you do with the good faction bodyguards due to the apparent frailty of the general. last resort option.

Nazgul - Epic. simple word and damned true. these are some of the best cavalry in the game capable on the charge of killing gondor generals and still holding up well in a standing melee. their special ability, strikes terror in the hearts of the enemy and may cause a general rout of the entire enemy army. a nice tactic is to use all the nazgul you get in one army and pop this morale shock on each one just after each other since it seems to stack (needs confirmation, but in my battles seems to work)at the same time order all of them to charge at same time. you will almost certainly rout the entire army unless the general is high in chivalry. downside is any other stack you field will be down one epic general to lead it!

general field tactics

on the field

Ok, so you have masses of orcs now what to do with them? throw them at the shiny plate wearers of course! best tactic to start a battle with orcs is to line all your orcs in one very long stretched line hopefully totally outstretching the enemy line, the idea is that when you close for combat your line goes around the sides of the enemy armys allowing for that flanking manouver i keep blabbing on about. use your orc spears to soak up any cavalry charge (dont worry about losses to the spears - easily replacable) and then try attack with a halberd units, if you lack them then send in more speard to overwhelm. you will want to get rid of the enemy archer quickly, try and do so with nazgul, or skirmishers of your own in loose formation to soak up the fire until you manage to get a melee unit around there. if you have trolls you should have moved them on the flanks to help wipe out cavalry and archers, and then moved into the rear of enemy melee units where they do their best damage.

In a siege

your best best is to hold on the walls themselves or in the centre, you will want a timer victory here since it takes the enemy a long time to smash through your units which are high in number, try not to commit all your units at once, only sending in more orcs once your other units has been all but detroyed. this keeps them fresh and ready to last a bit longer in the fight. commit your best units right at the end when the enemy is totally tired, for maximum damage. deploy trolls on walls if you can, they will last a long time up there. otherwise standard tactics you all know and love, archer fire on units blocked in the gates, or the catapult stew if your so inclined.

To conclude

your units are high in number cheap yet weak, they are expendable, dont get attached to your lowly orc as you would with that gondor milita that has survived 5 sieges at osgiliath, or the elven swordman who have somehow maaged to kill half a enemy army with just 10 men and live to tell the tale, your orcs are there to die and little else, firing on your orcs with your own archers and skirmishers if the enemy is fielding something tough like fountain guard or elven bodyguard is fine and even encouraged. you need to expand quicker then your enemys, you really dont want to see the elves best archer units or gondors finest on the field until you can afford and are fielding multiple stacks with trolls.

good luck servants of morgoth, your going to need it!

maybe ill write one up for my favourite faction, Rhun, and then harad, but not now, that was quite long to write up. Hope it helps someone.

[Incomitatus]

Not entirely sure what you're asking, but at the very least, it's possible to set up 1 table of contents, but one more complex. For example:

...

That will allow you to keep a better overview from 1 location, which is the exact idea behind it. Hope that helped.


edit: But if you're asking if there is some sort of function for it, I am afraid you'll have to do it manually.

Right. Yes, what you suggest is something I'm intending to do. What I wanted to know was if there's a way to create internal links. Like you can link to a post, so you can click and go to that post. Is there a way to create links to particular lines or parts inside of a post so that the index could be clickable to go to a particular section?

Because if so, that would be epically useful.

i thought id throw my own military tactics out there, regarding orc factions (gundabad, mordor, ootm)

Looks good! If you'd like, I could put in the guide, all under a spoiler probably, and tag it as an example of someone working through how to construct a strategy. It'd make it more prominent, and I like examples! I'd have to think about where to put it, though...

[Ultra123]

sure incomitatus, im sure it will prove useful to someone!

[Incomitatus]

sure incomitatus, im sure it will prove useful to someone!

Great. Don't let me forget. I'll probably put it in post #2, but I want to get #3 done first. I'm worried it's getting to be too long... 11,000+ words at the moment (about 17,000 for the whole guide so far - that's 1/4 of a standard novel and I figure I'm about 1/4 done, I wasn't kidding when I told my flatmate I was writing a book!) and I still have to go over Governor development in depth and a brief introduction of the EDCT and EDA.

I'm clearly not getting Economics into post 3. It will have to go into post 4, which only leaves me post 5 for Military stuff. That won't be enough. I'll have to find a way around that. I may need to start a different thread for battlefield tactics. This can be my Strategic Guide and I can have a separate Tactical Guide.

I could rename this one, "So You Think You're a King, Huh?" and make that one, "General Material? Uncle Sauron Wants You!"

[uddhava]

The AI is often inclined to make peace after suffering major defeats - whether this is due to 'shock' or just due to the reduction in relative strength, I do not know. The AI is also more inclined to make peace if they end up in more than one war. This can be very useful for some factions, such as Dale. Once Rhun joins an Invasion against Gondor, they are at war with Dale and Gondor, and possibly the Dwarves. Destroy a stack or two of theirs, then offer them peace terms... they very well may be willing to negotiate. Dale can almost always benefit from some time at peace.

I find that it's also easy to gain peace if the faction more or less accidently made war on you. The most notable example is offcourse with an invasion. If your settlement is allready conquered by another faction it's ussualy quite easy to get a peace settlement (including a nice cash bonus if the ai has the money).
Another situation is where the ai sieges you for one turn and retreats again or blockades a port but does not engage in any other military activity towards you. It seems unable to make up it's mind if it wants to attack you. This behaviour can be helped if you move a general with reinforcements towards the region since the ai perhaps feels it's army is to weak to conquer your settement and then hold it against your reinforcing army (although I haven't tested that properly). Anyway. When the ai is hesitant, to me that usually means it doesn't really want to make war on you. Although this is also exploitive you can extract a lot off money form the ai that way. It is sort of 'gamey'' but then the ai's behaviour is erratic (in those situations) to say the least. Could be good to know at least that getting peace is not impossible in all situations.

[uddhava]

I've finished re-reading the introduction and diplomacy posts. Apart from the suggestion above I can find no fault with it. Its well written, concise (okay we both know that's not true), detailed and very informative. But then, I'm a history teacher so I like al this indepth detail. Now I gotta do some real life stuff so I'll try and re read your other posts tonight and tomorrow.

The only other suggestion I had which is not related to those posts was perhaps to shed some light on traits that give equal amounts of bonussen to law and unrest (can't name one off the top off my head but they are around). i never get those as it seems to balance out so what's the use?. As I write this I realize that's probably more about game mechanics in general and perhaps this guide is not the place for that. If anyone else could shed some light on that.....

Thanks Uddhava

[Ultra123]

Great. Don't let me forget. I'll probably put it in post #2, but I want to get #3 done first. I'm worried it's getting to be too long... 11,000+ words at the moment (about 17,000 for the whole guide so far - that's 1/4 of a standard novel and I figure I'm about 1/4 done, I wasn't kidding when I told my flatmate I was writing a book!) and I still have to go over Governor development in depth and a brief introduction of the EDCT and EDA.

I'm clearly not getting Economics into post 3. It will have to go into post 4, which only leaves me post 5 for Military stuff. That won't be enough. I'll have to find a way around that. I may need to start a different thread for battlefield tactics. This can be my Strategic Guide and I can have a separate Tactical Guide.

I could rename this one, "So You Think You're a King, Huh?" and make that one, "General Material? Uncle Sauron Wants You!"

sure once i see you begin on the tactics ill write up something for rhun harad and isengard military tactics since i have certainly played them a lot. good thread titles should bring a more comforting element to the whole thing rather then sounding too serious

[Incomitatus]

I find that it's also easy to gain peace if the faction more or less accidently made war on you. The most notable example is offcourse with an invasion. If your settlement is allready conquered by another faction it's ussualy quite easy to get a peace settlement (including a nice cash bonus if the ai has the money).
Another situation is where the ai sieges you for one turn and retreats again or blockades a port but does not engage in any other military activity towards you. It seems unable to make up it's mind if it wants to attack you. This behaviour can be helped if you move a general with reinforcements towards the region since the ai perhaps feels it's army is to weak to conquer your settement and then hold it against your reinforcing army (although I haven't tested that properly). Anyway. When the ai is hesitant, to me that usually means it doesn't really want to make war on you. Although this is also exploitive you can extract a lot off money form the ai that way. It is sort of 'gamey'' but then the ai's behaviour is erratic (in those situations) to say the least. Could be good to know at least that getting peace is not impossible in all situations.

Oh that... yes, I didn't include that... maybe I should, but mostly I wanted to give people tips on how to make the AI make peace. If it already wants to... well you don't need a guide to that, do you?

But the rule of thumb that's usually in play there is this: If the AI doesn't have a bordering province and they don't absolutely hate you, they will almost always not only want to make peace, but will be willing to pay you for it.

The only other suggestion I had which is not related to those posts was perhaps to shed some light on traits that give equal amounts of bonussen to law and unrest (can't name one off the top off my head but they are around). i never get those as it seems to balance out so what's the use?. As I write this I realize that's probably more about game mechanics in general and perhaps this guide is not the place for that. If anyone else could shed some light on that.....

The answer to that is going in the Governor section, and probably will be covered again in the Economics Part. But, I'll give you what you want here, too.

In the Capitol or a nearby province, there's not much benefit to the Law + Unrest traits. However, in more distant provinces: Law reduces corruption, which increases income. A trait that gives +2 Law and +2 Unrest has no effect on Public Order, but in the right settlement (ie. a Large Town or bigger, far from the Capitol) can be worth over 100/turn in income.

I've also read that the presence of Unrest, of the normal or religious/cultural kind, increases the chance for rebels, but that is uncomfirmed, so don't go trusting that. Even if it is true, rebels don't do much but stand around on top of your watchtowers and provide opportunities to get experience for your troops/Generals.

And by the way, uddhava, I actually do feel that this is concise! Concise doesn't necessarily mean short, after all. It would be possible to double the length of what I've written. Easy, actually. I'm trying to strip things down as much as I can without over-simplification. When you think that games much less complex than this one have official strategy guides published as oversized books, if I can end up with this being the length of a standard novel, I think that's doing quite well myself.

But I re-read the section on developing Generals today and I am deeply unhappy with it. I intend to revise it after I'm done with the whole Part, but I'm not sure about how to go about it. I'm not done with it, but I feel that the section on Governors is coming together much better, which is clearly a function of my bias. As far as I'm concerned Generals are fire and forget... use them and they get helpful traits, and sometimes those traits make them suited to being Governors, so then I use them for that. Kobal2fr's guide clearly shows the same bias, but he still managed to put it together well, so I'm sure a revision can improve my part, too.

sure once i see you begin on the tactics ill write up something for rhun harad and isengard military tactics since i have certainly played them a lot. good thread titles should bring a more comforting element to the whole thing rather then sounding too serious

Don't hold your breath. I want to start on that. Actually, it's the part I most want to write and am most looking forward to, but I want to get everything else done first (do the hardest/least fun stuff first, my mother always advised) and a) it's going slower than anticipated, and b) work will intrude in my writing time, soon (although we're having a snow storm that has shut things down and will continue to do so until Thursday, so I can't actually do work... so consider that good for all of you - bad for me - as long as the power stays on!)

[Incomitatus]

EDIT: double post, sorry, this one can go away and not be in Kansas anymore...

[uddhava]

Oh that... yes, I didn't include that... maybe I should, but mostly I wanted to give people tips on how to make the AI make peace. If it already wants to... well you don't need a guide to that, do you?

That's true but the ai will not always come to you to make peace in those situations (or wll take very long if it's far away) and the cash is handy.

In the Capitol or a nearby province, there's not much benefit to the Law + Unrest traits. However, in more distant provinces: Law reduces corruption, which increases income. A trait that gives +2 Law and +2 Unrest has no effect on Public Order, but in the right settlement (ie. a Large Town or bigger, far from the Capitol) can be worth over 100/turn in income.

So Unrest doesn't add to corruption just to public order whereas Law influences both?


QUOTE=Incomitatus;12151213]And by the way, uddhava, I actually do feel that this is concise! Concise doesn't necessarily mean short, after all. It would be possible to double the length of what I've written. Easy, actually. I'm trying to strip things down as much as I can without over-simplification. When you think that games much less complex than this one have official strategy guides published as oversized books, if I can end up with this being the length of a standard novel, I think that's doing quite well myself. [/QUOTE]

Your right. I meant short. And you're doing more than 'quite well'

Don't hold your breath. I want to start on that. Actually, it's the part I most want to write and am most looking forward to, but I want to get everything else done first (do the hardest/least fun stuff first, my mother always advised) and a) it's going slower than anticipated, and b) work will intrude in my writing time, soon (although we're having a snow storm that has shut things down and will continue to do so until Thursday, so I can't actually do work... so consider that good for all of you - bad for me - as long as the power stays on!)

Well, do hope that the weather and your health will improve soon enough. No good writing on an empty stomach!

Uddhava.

[Incomitatus]

That's true but the ai will not always come to you to make peace in those situations (or wll take very long if it's far away) and the cash is handy.

Yeah. I'll update that part of the guide soon. Probably when I get done with the current bit I'm working on (Miners - training them (efficiently) is a bit more complicated than Farmers, so it's a bit more complicated of a section. Not too bad, though.) DONE (the update and the Miner section)

So Unrest doesn't add to corruption just to public order whereas Law influences both?

Correct. The only thing that adds to corruption is Distance to Capitol. The only thing that reduces Corruption is Law (from buildings and Governors).

I have seen guides that claim that Piety or Authority in the Governor will reduce corruption, but as far as I've ever been able to tell this is not true.

Unrest clearly decreases Public Order. I have also also read claims that it increases the frequency of rebels popping up (and that it can increase the likelihood of Witches and Heretics in M2:TW). This claim is harder to prove or disprove, so I consider it possible but unconfirmed.

What I have noticed, though I don't have quantified proof, is that rebels are more likely when the King has low Authority or the settlement is unhappy (and in vanilla M2:TW God help you if both are true! Rebels EVERYWHERE!). Insofar as Unrest makes the settlement being unhappy more likely, it would have an effect.

Also, something probably almost no one knows: some regions in TATW 3.2 cannot have rebels pop up. For example, other than the ones that are on the map at the start, you'll never see rebels in the High Elves' Western starting regions - as best as I can tell from the files. Just a little FYI, for fun.


EVERYONE: I discovered a rather important error in the Guide (and an error in my game planning!). The Guide has been updated, but rather than telling everyone to go hunting and pecking for it, the correction is this: Dunedain factions (Gondor and Arnor) CANNOT train their Generals up in the intelligence and skill traits with their Academic (culture) buildings. The mod uses the city_ and castle_academic tags for the Northmen culture buildings and uses 'new' internal names for the Gondor and Arnor buildings. The export_descr_ancillaries.txt includes dual entries for both types for the relevant ancillaries but the export_descr_bulidings.txt does not.

So, what this means is that your Gondor Governors can get the Inventor ancillary, for example, by sitting around in a town or castle with a Library, but they can't get the Intelligent trait for building that library. The Northmen factions (Eriador, Rohan, Dale) can do both with their culture buildings.

This discovery caused me to update the section on differences between M2:TW and TATW and the section on good traits for Generals. I don't think it affects anything else I've written, but if it does, please bring it to my attention.

This also caused me to immediately save what I was doing and make the corrections, so I apologize for the rather ugly unfinished state of the Trade Baron section. I'm working on finishing it now, but it will take awhile, it's a complex discussion.

(Oh, and I also updated the Diplomacy section with Uddhava's suggestion. )

(I also just learned that there is a 100,000 character limit in this posts...)

UPDATE: Section on Trade Barons is done... ordinarily I wouldn't point people to a particular section, especially in an unfinished Part, and say, "You should read this!", but... well, "You should read this!" Making Trade pay off is hard for a lot of people, and easily the most important part of doing so is good Governor choices, but it's rather complicated to make a great Trade Governor, so I think that part of the guide is basically essential reading. Also, I want to know if it's clear enough.

UPDATE: Financial Governors are all written up. I will probably add a summary before moving on to the two very specialist types, but just now I'm going to go fry some potatoes and bacon and an egg or two. And then eat them. DONE!

[uddhava]

Good (re-)write. Keep it up! Looking forward to economy and tactics. How's the weather holding up