[Faction Research]Principality of Bohemia

[Heathen Storm]

Hail, friends! We have decided to include the Duchy/Principality of Bohemia as a faction - my intense scrutinizing and deciding the map's regions have led me to find that Bohemia actually owned 5 provinces in the area, which if added to Germany's already substantial amount of provinces, would create a monster that would bulldoze right over the Obodrites, Poles, the Lombards and perhaps even the Danes. And we don't want that, do we?

So! We need your help in researching the faction.

We need;
-Current family members/generals
-Tactics and strategies
-Current diplomatic situation
-Faction roster/native unit names

[demagogos nicator]

I have quite bussy period now at my university, as soon as the situation get better I would try to give you some comprehensive info

[Sar1n]

The names are gonna give you a headache. Especially since there are sometimes several different possible transcriptions, some dates are still disputed. Anyway, I've dug up a quick family tree... numbers in black are dates of reign, red are ages in 968 C.E., blue are other notes.

I haven't studied history, but at least I have access to sources written in Czech language, that are likely to more accurate. So I hope it'll help.

[Heathen Storm]

The names are gonna give you a headache. Especially since there are sometimes several different possible transcriptions, some dates are still disputed. Anyway, I've dug up a quick family tree... numbers in black are dates of reign, red are ages in 968 C.E., blue are other notes.

I haven't studied history, but at least I have access to sources written in Czech language, that are likely to more accurate. So I hope it'll help.

Great work mate! I will make sure to come to you if I need any help with anything. Currently we have the area of their rule as Bohemia, Moravia, Wroclaw, Raciborz and Krakow. Is that correct?

Also, if you know anything about their military/unit names that would be great. You get a cookie

[Sar1n]

Area sounds about right, quick poke gave me this map:

It is in Czech, but it shouldn't be that hard to understand. Note, Slavníkovci were an offshoot of ruling house that was appointed to protect the trade route running through the area, since they were subject of the Duke it's mostly irrelevant, although if there's a lack of generals, their head of family can be included (but only thing I found about him is name Slavník and year of death, 981, age unknown. Almost entire family was massacred in the year 995 on duke's order).

As for military, I found virtually nothing about composition, seem to be common levied mob and few men-at-arms. If you want, I could translate some generic unit names if you're going that way...

Edit: oh damn, sorry for doublepost...that happens when switching between too many tabs

And another edit: I have only free electronic sources (AKA interwebz ) available right now, but if you want to do some research about army and got access to something better, best place to start would be Battle of Lechfeld where Bohemian army participated.

[Heathen Storm]

Area sounds about right, quick poke gave me this map:

It is in Czech, but it shouldn't be that hard to understand. Note, Slavníkovci were an offshoot of ruling house that was appointed to protect the trade route running through the area, since they were subject of the Duke it's mostly irrelevant, although if there's a lack of generals, their head of family can be included (but only thing I found about him is name Slavník and year of death, 981, age unknown. Almost entire family was massacred in the year 995 on duke's order).

As for military, I found virtually nothing about composition, seem to be common levied mob and few men-at-arms. If you want, I could translate some generic unit names if you're going that way...

Edit: oh damn, sorry for doublepost...that happens when switching between too many tabs

And another edit: I have only free electronic sources (AKA interwebz ) available right now, but if you want to do some research about army and got access to something better, best place to start would be Battle of Lechfeld where Bohemian army participated.

Perfect! Thanks again mate. Can you think of any more battles they were involved in? I'll search around for some more info.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

I cant help, but sounds very neat! Im surprised Bohemia wasnt in to begin with though, I had always thought it was a right good power in that time frame

[Sar1n]

A bit out of timeframe, but should provide some info: Battle of Chlumec (1126). Things were slow at those times, so I don't suppose army composition changed much.

[Heathen Storm]

A bit out of timeframe, but should provide some info: Battle of Chlumec (1126). Things were slow at those times, so I don't suppose army composition changed much.

Mkay, got a slight bit of information from it.

From what I've gathered, the Bohemian army was very similar and highly influenced by the Germans to their west, but also quite close to the Polish to the East.

[Sar1n]

Sounds about right, Bohemia was and is a Slavic nation like Poland, but was a part of the (future) HRE, so both influences will be there.

As for some "unique" units...given the history during that timeframe, a knight unit specializing in eliminating bodyguards and generals would be fitting

[Heathen Storm]

Sounds about right, Bohemia was and is a Slavic nation like Poland, but was a part of the (future) HRE, so both influences will be there.

As for some "unique" units...given the history during that timeframe, a knight unit specializing in eliminating bodyguards and generals would be fitting

A heavily armored cavalry using maces sounds pretty right. A Polish style "Pancerni" would work perfectly.

[Sar1n]

Diplomacy is a mess too. Allegiances were usually between nobles, not countries, and changed quickly, and apparently Bohemian dukes were just between 950 and 1050 several times allied and in war with every neighbor. Most of the wars ended with one or two skirmishes tho, no real major battle as far as I can tell. Exactly at 968...apparently Boleslav II. supported Bavarian Duke Henry II. against Otto II., so the relations to Germany will be quite sour, while Poland was probably closest ally at that point through marriage. Relations with Hungary were calming down after recent wars...that's all I could get.

And if you want to use any native names for units, just give me a list and I'll translate.

[Heathen Storm]

Diplomacy is a mess too. Allegiances were usually between nobles, not countries, and changed quickly, and apparently Bohemian dukes were just between 950 and 1050 several times allied and in war with every neighbor. Most of the wars ended with one or two skirmishes tho, no real major battle as far as I can tell. Exactly at 968...apparently Boleslav II. supported Bavarian Duke Henry II. against Otto II., so the relations to Germany will be quite sour, while Poland was probably closest ally at that point through marriage. Relations with Hungary were calming down after recent wars...that's all I could get.

And if you want to use any native names for units, just give me a list and I'll translate.

Yeah, native names would be great. Let's go with just a general list...

Commoners
Scouts
Hunters
Spearmen
Warriors
Archers/bowmen
Nobles
Lower druzhina
Cavalry
Prince's druzhina

That's all I can really think of right now... If you can think of more to add go ahead

[Sar1n]

Hm...some words don't have exact translation, gonna have to pick what I think is closest...just be careful...it's a tricky language, even forming plural isn't as simple as in english.
Commoner-rolník, that is more like peasant but probably closest term. plural-rolníci
Scouts-průzkumníci
Hunters-lovci
Spearmen-kopiníci
Warriors-válečníci, eventually bojovníci
Archers/bowmen-lukostřelci/lučištníci
Nobles-šlechtici
Lower druzhina-probably closest would be šlechtická družina if they're a noble's company, or nižší šlechta as company made of lower nobles
cavalry-jízda
prince's druzhina-princova družina

A few more from me

Slingers-práčata (no idea if slings were still in military use at those times)
knights-rytíři
Heavy cavalry-těžká jízda
Light cavalry-lehká jízda
dismounted knights-pěší rytíři

[Heathen Storm]

Hm...some words don't have exact translation, gonna have to pick what I think is closest...just be careful...it's a tricky language, even forming plural isn't as simple as in english.
Commoner-rolník, that is more like peasant but probably closest term. plural-rolníci
Scouts-průzkumníci
Hunters-lovci
Spearmen-kopiníci
Warriors-válečníci, eventually bojovníci
Archers/bowmen-lukostřelci/lučištníci
Nobles-šlechtici
Lower druzhina-probably closest would be šlechtická družina if they're a noble's company, or nižší šlechta as company made of lower nobles
cavalry-jízda
prince's druzhina-princova družina

A few more from me

Slingers-práčata (no idea if slings were still in military use at those times)
knights-rytíři
Heavy cavalry-těžká jízda
Light cavalry-lehká jízda
dismounted knights-pěší rytíři

Hmmm looks pretty good, the only thing is about Prince's druzhina - wouldn't it be something like kniazna? (I don't know Slavic languages.... I just know of the title kníže)

[Sar1n]

Yea, forgot the context, and thought of prince as a heir. In this case it would be knížecí družina.

[Heathen Storm]

Yea, forgot the context, and thought of prince as a heir. In this case it would be knížecí družina.

Okay, here are some more;

Tribesmen
Armored Spearmen (Name does not have to be direct translation, simply "armored" would be fine)

[Sar1n]

Okay, here are some more;

Tribesmen
Armored Spearmen (Name does not have to be direct translation, simply "armored" would be fine)

Actually, simply armored won't cut it.
Armored spearmen-obrnění kopiníci , but for example armored cavalry would be obrněná jízda. It's a tricky language, and the exact form of adjective depends on noun. On the plus side...google translated spam can be REALLY amusing.

Tribesmen-this one is a bit tricky too. Direct translation is in czech language kinda associated with native americans, aborigines and such, so best I would be tribal warriors-kmenoví válečníci.

[Heathen Storm]

Ok thank you mate. Now what would you say for a faction symbol?

[Sar1n]

This seem to be undisputed.