Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

[hellheaven1987]

What exactly are standing in the way of Scotland becoming a new Norway?

EU.

[nemgod]

What exactly are standing in the way of Scotland becoming a new Norway?

Well north sea oil is the fastest depleting one in the world. Also Norway has a much better social and economic structure that most of the world should be envious of for it to work. EU isn't really much of an answer as norway has to follow near enough all of their laws but without having a say in the affairs.

[Armenum]

To my knowledge most Scotsmen don't want independence, so I don't see this vote as changing anything, just reaffirming the status quo. Of course, get ready for a year or so of campaigning....

[Kanaric]

does this have any hope of passing? TWC polls are meaningless completely so i'm wondering what polling in in reality.

[Comrade_Rory]

My Scottish "half" comes from a proud Scottish military family that can be traced back to clans and all that and pretty much everyone of my Scottish ancestors (that I know of) served in the British army.
I feel somewhat of a loyalty to "Britain" and although I love this country and love living in Yorkshire, I feel no huge loyalty to "England" that doesn't come from it being part of Britain if that makes sense.

I guess that it feels like to dissolve the union between England and Scotland would be an insult to everything that these countries did together and whether you are a proud Englishman, Scotsman, Welshman or just some bitter "foreigner"... like it or not but it was "Britain" that was the most important nation of the 18th, 19th and early 20th century and it was "Britain" that invented the modern world. Not England and not Scotland.

Note: I realise it was the "United Kingdom" but I'm saying Britain to emphasise that it's mainly about this island.

[Diglytron]

I'm not realy into the Scotish independent. So don't get me wrong. I think its better for the Scottish economy to stay with England, however as most of the Scottish want to have autonomy I think its important this minority should not be ignored. The goverment should make an smart and wise deccision however over the bands with England and the trading rights. Aswell as open borders and an good colerbraration between both nations

any exitpolls someone?

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Without Scottish soldiers the English will have no more great warriors to fight in Helmand province and the Fawlklands.
Without them the Southern people will be weak enough for a French invasion.
Viva le France

[Makrell]

Would scotland gaining indepence do any difference in the struggle in northern ireland?
realsie the english in NI would want to be irish, but if scotland took active part in the conflict who knows?

[Bobz]

Would scotland gaining indepence do any difference in the struggle in northern ireland?
realsie the english in NI would want to be irish, but if scotland took active part in the conflict who knows?

You're about 30 years late. There really is no struggle in Northern Ireland anymore.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Would scotland gaining indepence do any difference in the struggle in northern ireland?
realsie the english in NI would want to be irish, but if scotland took active part in the conflict who knows?

lol what

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Tell that to Gerry Adams and the RIRA.
Some idiots still want what they can never have.

realsie the english in NI would want to be irish, but if scotland took active part in the conflict who knows?

This post has melted my mind I have not got a clue what this means

[Lazzeer]

Would scotland gaining indepence do any difference in the struggle in northern ireland?
realsie the english in NI would want to be irish, but if scotland took active part in the conflict who knows?

Possibly, as I understand that there are ties between unionists in Northern Ireland and unionists in Scotland, largely in West Scotland (I'm looking at you Glasgow), that are in turn related to Scotland and Northern Irelands shared history (Scots-Irish, plantation of Ulster being done largely by Scots). Scottish independence would then probably be a psychological blow to Northern Irish unionists, although it wouldn't change the economic reasons for continued unionism. The idea that it would reignite the troubles is pretty far fetched, and the idea that the Scottish government would get involved is beyond ridiculous.

Of course Scottish independence might have a similar impact on the rest of the UK with its relation to the EU. The SNP don't hide the fact that they're very pro-EU (or atleast the leadership is), and that they want Scotland to have a closer relationship with the EU. It's possible that by leaving the UK and persuing a stronger relationship with Europe that it would also deal a psychological blow to little Englanders who seem to believe Britain is still a superpower, can act unilaterally, and doesn't need Europe.

It's therefore possible that the referendum is just as much about the future of Scotland as it is about the future of the UK as a whole.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Let the English vote as to weather they want Scotland joined to them.Would they want the Scots??/Hmm

[Col. Tartleton]

Legally speaking, I think there's a fair argument that North Ireland is part of Scotland or England-Wales.

The 1707 Union of Scotland and England-Wales was followed by a 1800 Union between Great Britain and Ireland. As such Scotland has equal claim to North Ireland.

I'm not sure how you can undo the 1707 Union without undoing the 1800 Union. By default either North Ireland becomes a disputed territory or leaves the Union too.

I mean that's a pretty huge oversight.

Technically by not making this a referendum for the entire UK you're disenfranchising 92% of the people involved.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Legally speaking, I think there's a fair argument that North Ireland is part of Scotland or England-Wales.

The 1707 Union of Scotland and England-Wales was followed by a 1800 Union between Great Britain and Ireland. As such Scotland has equal claim to North Ireland.

I'm not sure how you can undo the 1707 Union without undoing the 1800 Union. By default either North Ireland becomes a disputed territory or leaves the Union too.

I mean that's a pretty huge oversight.

Technically by not making this a referendum for the entire UK you're disenfranchising 92% of the people.

This is ing absurd.

[Lazzeer]

Legally speaking, I think there's a fair argument that North Ireland is part of Scotland or England-Wales.

The 1707 Union of Scotland and England-Wales was followed by a 1800 Union between Great Britain and Ireland. As such Scotland has equal claim to North Ireland.

Scottish independence would not be a divorce; it's secession. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would continue to exist as a legal entity. Besides, under Scottish constitutional law Scotland could have no legal claims to Northern Ireland other than that given by Northern Irish popular support.

In 1707 the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England both ceased to exist, and a new entity - the Kingdom of Great Britain - came into existence.

In 1800 the Kingdom of Ireland united with the Kingdom of Great Britain, forming the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

Ireland later leaves, and so now there's one single entity - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

This is the important bit - Scottish independence is not the undoing of the 1707 Act of Union, it's a secession of Scotland and the formation of a new state.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Or we could go back further in time to when no colony from Scotland went over to the North Of Eire.
The island of Ireland should go back to being united as it is one island not connected to Scotland or Wales by land.There is a great big sea between the 2 islands so let us go back to that?The Rep has more right to the North than Wales or England.Scotland has no rights over the North or Ireland we are not joined by land and the invaders can get off our island.If Scotland trys to take over the North we will see it as a act of aggression and declare war.

[Col. Tartleton]

Scottish independence would not be a divorce; it's secession. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would continue to exist as a legal entity. Besides, under Scottish constitutional law Scotland could have no legal claims to Northern Ireland other than that given by Northern Irish popular support.

In 1707 the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England both ceased to exist, and a new entity - the Kingdom of Great Britain - came into existence.

In 1800 the Kingdom of Ireland was subsumed into the Kingdom of Great Britain.

So now there's one single entity - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

This is the important bit - Scottish independence is not the undoing of the 1707 Act of Union, it's a secession of Scotland and the formation of a new state.

How is it not undoing the 1707 Act of Union?

So basically they're creating a brand new State called Scotland which is unrelated to the other Scotland which still exists as part of Great Britain that has no territory or people?

To Alex Salmond: That's ing retarded.

[Lazzeer]

How is it not undoing the 1707 Act of Union?

So basically they're creating a brand new country called Scotland which is unrelated to the other Scotland which still exists as part of Great Britain that has no territory or people?

The Kingdom of Scotland ceased to exist as a legal entity in 1707, so there is no Scotland - just the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Strictly speaking the two are separate legal entities.

[Hazelnut]

does this have any hope of passing? TWC polls are meaningless completely so i'm wondering what polling in in reality.

Some opinion polls suggest opposition to independence in Scotland is running at about 2:1. Mr Salmond, asked whether the referendum deal was a political death warrant, said: “I believe we will win.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/47a5ee6e-16ed-11e2-b1df-00144feabdc0.html#axzz29PbK8xFo

But with two years of talk to come it all depends on how well the British economy does I would suspect.

If independence made them £500 better off, 65% of Scots told one poll they'd vote for it.
But if it made them as much worse off, only 21%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19955302

Mr Salmond would hope to have a Scottish representative on the Bank of England’s monetary policy committee setting interest rates across the “sterling area”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/47a5ee6e-16ed-11e2-b1df-00144feabdc0.html#axzz29PbK8xFo

Really why should Scotland get any say in the Bank of England if it decides to go for independence.

Another point during the Act of Union has brought a unparallel peace to England and Scotland. So in the same time that the EU gets a Nobel Peace Prize, Salmond wants to destroy the British equivalent. For what as well? Economically Scotland would still be vastly dependant on England, but without representation. Its culture is basically the same, there is more difference between Highland and Lowland Scots than between Scotland and England. Currently Salmond is attempting to push Scotland into a fake culture created to make a unique identity.

Salmond has been a big fish in a small pond, that pond has just increased tenfold, it will be interesting to see what the sharks make of him.