Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

[♖The Balkan Sobranie♖]

London does not give a about Englishpeople only English do.We have a thread about Scots being drunks and sucking the dole from the union that shows how much your English masters care about ye. (Yeah, TOO MUCH).

the English must be freed from the yoke of Scottish oppression; down with the Scottish! England belongs to the English!!

Fixed. Noted my corrections in bold font.

[Exarch]

oh and another thing, don't tell me i don't know nothin' about Scotland or the UK, i watched Braveheart 90 times. that's more than enough education i need to say that SCotland must be independa,t FREE SCOTLAND!!!

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

I did go to a school where the teacher told us Ian Paisley was the actual Devil so my head is brainwashed.

Anyhow here is the new Union flag.

I agree with Bombadier I think England should vote also as It is clear many do not want Scotland.How sad Scots want to love the Union and the Union does not really want them.Unrequited love chaps wot wot kinda sad like that girl who broke my heart all those years ago.I am sure I saw a poll where English people did not want Scotland as they are all spongers and Neds and heavy drinkers.There words not mine.I also believe many English did not want the North Of Ireland during the troubles as they were more trouble than they were worth at the time.Is this true in the opinion of English people here??Nobody ever asks them do they want people sponging off them..

[hellheaven1987]

Blah, just form the Empire of Britannia and everything is solved - you can all have your Kingdom of England/Wales/Scotland/colonial Northern Ireland you want, but the head is Emperor/Empress of Britannia.

[Matthias]

Considering the world is becoming more interconnected and interdependant, I would hope that silly notions like nationalism would eventually fall to the wayside, but some places seem to be taking a step backward from a more united mankind and towards the petty triablism that has been our curse since time immemorial.

At the bottom of all nationalist/ethnic/cultural pride is insecurity.

[Exarch]

Fixed. Noted my corrections in bold font.

lol

still, Cameron is looking like the worst PM in UK history; under his stewardship, he's isolated UK from the EU, and now Scotland looks like it'll split.

well i say, good luck to them; just remember that once the Queen passes away, we in Australia will declare a Republic.

[Gatsby]

Ah misclicked. Lets hope I get more sleep and avoid making the same mistake on the day, which I am sadly able to vote on.

I can confidently tell you that most people my age are idiots, and most 16-17 year-olds will probably vote for yes.

If the devolution max option was there, I would certainly have chosen that. I believe more federation is the best route for the UK, but sadly Salmond has sacrificed the option I found most preferable in order to strengthen the odds of what I consider the worst option.

I'm pretty pissed off about it.

[hellheaven1987]

well i say, good luck to them; just remember that once the Queen passes away, we in Australia will declare a Republic.

Wait a minute, I thought you guys are going to form Two Kingdoms of Oceania under Prince King Henry I?

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

lol

still, Cameron is looking like the worst PM in UK history; under his stewardship, he's isolated UK from the EU, and now Scotland looks like it'll split.

well i say, good luck to them; just remember that once the Queen passes away, we in Australia will declare a Republic.

Have you noticed we are sending our crimanals over from Ireland just in time to breed and change your voting polls so you become free?
Freedom for Australia

[Exarch]

Wait a minute, I thought you guys are going to form Two Kingdoms of Oceania under Prince King Henry I?

the Royals, had enough of their inbred bull .

anyway, unless the British are sincere about retaking the 13 colonies, i see no reason to hitch our carts to a dying entity.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Rebuild Hadrian's wall and keep the lowlanders out.
Free buck fast at the voting stations for all Independence voters is Alex Salmond's plan and the age of drinking be lowered that will get mote votes.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Considering the world is becoming more interconnected and interdependant, I would hope that silly notions like nationalism would eventually fall to the wayside, but some places seem to be taking a step backward from a more united mankind and towards the petty triablism that has been our curse since time immemorial.

At the bottom of all nationalist/ethnic/cultural pride is insecurity.

Well, I'm not so much of a nationalist. But I don't think it's always like that.

According to texts at least, the ancient Greeks really really really thought themselves superior to all, don't think it was insecurity . . .

[Matthias]

Well, I'm not so much of a nationalist. But I don't think it's always like that.

According to texts at least, the ancient Greeks really really really thought themselves superior to all, don't think it was insecurity . . .

Feeling superior is not the same as nationalism and so your analogy doesn't quite work. Nationalism is also a fairly modern invention. It wasn't around during the time of ancient Greeks, that's for sure.

[Azog 150]

I was born in Scotland and lived there for four years, but I've lived most of my life elsewhere and will not get to vote so I have voted as being elsewhere from the UK.

Pros of Independence:

.Chance to get away from the London-centric economy thats overly reliant on the financial sector
.Due to the smaller population, each vote will ultimately count for more in a partly PR elected fully sovereign parliament
.Chance to get away from the Westminster Parliament and the generally hated parties that dominate it
.Will have full control of its resources
.Could potentially in the long run thrive economically

Cons:

.Scotland may have to reapply for EU membership, and once a member it will be a smaller less economically powerful country with less sway- Scotland could find the EU forcing new regulations onto it, including the Euro and everything that comes with it
.Scotland, despite being independent, will still be heavily tied to the rest of the UK economically (especially if it continues to use Sterling), culturally, socially and politically and yet it won't get a say on UK issues that may severely affect it
.With these issues in mind, just how independent is an independent Scotland?
.Scotland will have the initial and large expense of setting up the various institutions to run the country such as the armed forces, foreign ministry etc
.Strong arguments from both sides on how economically strong Scotland will be- but whatever way you look at it its a risky venture and could go very wrong
.Scotland will loose access to UK funds
.There is thus far no concrete post-independence policies (perhaps the most important one at this stage)



As for a future in the UK, its not great now and many would agree. But Scotland is not alone in its gripes with Westminster and the pressure on the government to bring genuine change is growing. Westminster has already devolved much of its power, and I think it will go further towards a Federal UK with continued pressure. In this scenario Scotland (and the other areas of the UK) would have greater economic and political independence from Westminster, but would still have the rest of the UK to fall back on should things go wrong. I see this as the best course of action for Scotland along with the rest of the UK.

There is the possibility Westminster may try to block such moves, and if they do prove unwilling to budge its not like the Scottish people won't have another opportunity at independence in the future when the world is looking a bit more stable. But the world right now is in a very uncertain state and it may not be the best time to be going at it alone. As someone residing in England, I am also afraid of having a Tory dominated Westminster for the foreseeable future. Not to say I'm a fan of Labour either.

The one pro for independence that I can see from the perspective of the rest of the UK is Scotland leaving might move us closer to a genuine reshuffle of the Westminster system.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

Yes, I know, but the basis of the feeling superior feeling is kind of engraved in nationalism too, it wasn't my aim to make a clear analogy of the two, but I hope you get my point...

anyway I don't feel that any culture or race is superior, everything has it's charm.


hmmm, on topic...

thinking about how scots, english, irish as well as other nationals from all over the world are spread everywhere in the UK...

besides having a more localised government, I don't think this will change much in the everyday lives of the people.

They will probably still be free to travel anywhere on the island without a visa, free to find work anywhere, trade will be the same.. so..?

[Watercress]

That's one point that's rather interesting - it's hard to call what Salmond is proposing as true independence. Although to be honest, he's been very vague about all that

[General Brittanicus]

I did go to a school where the teacher told us Ian Paisley was the actual Devil so my head is brainwashed.

Anyhow here is the new Union flag.

I agree with Bombadier I think England should vote also as It is clear many do not want Scotland.How sad Scots want to love the Union and the Union does not really want them.Unrequited love chaps wot wot kinda sad like that girl who broke my heart all those years ago.I am sure I saw a poll where English people did not want Scotland as thre all spongers and Neds and heavy drinkers.There words not mine.I also believe many English did not want the North Of Ireland during the troubles as they were more trouble than they were worth at the time.Is this true in the opinion of English people here??Nobody ever asks them do they want people sponging off them..

If we were going to change the flag after Scotland left why would we keep the Scottish saltire in it and change the background to a colour which isnt the background on anyone's flag?

I do agree that England should get a vote though. I am a unionist myself, but the same can't be said for the rest of my country, so i believe it is only fair that they also be given the chance to become independent from Scotland.

[Lord Baratheon]

I did go to a school where the teacher told us Ian Paisley was the actual Devil so my head is brainwashed.

*Sigh*...Ireland

Pros of Independence:
.Chance to get away from the London-centric economy thats overly reliant on the financial sector
.Due to the smaller population, each vote will ultimately count for more in a partly PR elected fully sovereign parliament
.Chance to get away from the Westminster Parliament and the generally hated parties that dominate it


In theory can't the Scottish Parliament do all of these things.I think so.I also think that there are other reasons playing here.

.Will have full control of its resources

.Under that argument nations should just subdivide for purely economical reasons,ignoring years of shared History, culture and Nationhood.Should Germany not have re-united purely because it would mess up the economy?No.well then the opposite is true.Its a bit like a marriage,when they say'for Richer,for poorer'

.Could potentially in the long run thrive economically

For a while yes,they will be able to have all the Brussels money that their Hearts desire,then things go bad.Remember Ireland.

[I WUB PUGS]

Bad idea for the Scots.

[Påsan]

What exactly are standing in the way of Scotland becoming a new Norway?