View Poll Results: How will or would you vote in a referendum for Scottish

Voters
543. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am Scottish - Yes

    20 3.68%
  • I am Scottish - No

    15 2.76%
  • I am from another part of the UK - Yes

    28 5.16%
  • I am from another part of the UK - No

    99 18.23%
  • I am from outside the UK - Yes

    211 38.86%
  • I am from outside the UK - No

    170 31.31%
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Thread: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

  1. #5121
    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    It's a shame, i'd have changed my vote for that!

    IN seriousness now though, it seems that the SNP are being battered by Scottish business leaders:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-26854929

    It's interesting that all the SNP responded with are jibes and tattle.
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  2. #5122
    Lazzeer's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    There's been a lot of news lately from the SNP conference, particularly attacking the Better Together campaign as overly negative. It would seem to me that the Better Together campaign has a secret weapon up their sleeve - devo max. Are they ever going to offer it? Or is to be hidden dark and deep in the vaults, not to be used, unless at the uttermost end? - ie if defeat looks imminent. I'm aware we have some people here active in the respective campaigns. Have they noticed any kind of differences or shifts lately in regards to voting intention? (I'm aware the polling suggests a slight increase for the Yes vote)
    As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is little more than a solitary man with a messy apartment which may or may not contain a chicken.

    It's all fun and games until people start getting eaten

  3. #5123
    Gatsby's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Because all great decisions of past times have been made based on the charm of a positive tone.

    Once again Salmond makes a large public retort with no actual content, merely more populist pandering and desperate appeals to emotion and anti-Tory passion.
    Last edited by Gatsby; April 13, 2014 at 05:08 AM.
    Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.

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  4. #5124
    Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzeer View Post
    There's been a lot of news lately from the SNP conference, particularly attacking the Better Together campaign as overly negative.
    I never get this argument about them being overly negative. Isn't the whole point of no meant to show that going it alone is worse than being together. Or is Salmond trying to say that the better together should be like "Yes Scotland will be great alone but let's not do that." in their arguments. (Which would basically be saying "Vote yes because we have no alternatives.)

  5. #5125
    Lazzeer's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by nemgod View Post
    I never get this argument about them being overly negative. Isn't the whole point of no meant to show that going it alone is worse than being together. Or is Salmond trying to say that the better together should be like "Yes Scotland will be great alone but let's not do that." in their arguments. (Which would basically be saying "Vote yes because we have no alternatives.)
    I think it's more about presenting an alternate, but positive, vision. So for instance the Better Together campaign tends to focus on the idea that "independence will be bad because X," instead of "the Union is good because Y." The problem however is that you can't really explain why Y is good without explaining why X is bad. So, for instance, explaining why the Union is good re investing in renewables in Scotland only really makes sense if you explain that such levels of funding might not be available in an independent Scotland, or explaining why defence industry shipbuilding contracts is good also only really works if you explain that if we left the UK then Clyde/Rosyth etc likely wouldn't get them.

    The task for the No campaign is to present a competing, but positive image of a better United Kingdom. So talking about more devolution, or building a fairer or more democratic society together etc.

    To be honest though, as this campaign becomes increasingly divisive I'm slightly more concerned about what Scotland would be like post-yes vote (if that hypothetically happened). If there is a large amount of regional disparity in terms of how people voted (e.g. a West/East divide), and say negotiations don't go well, Scotland could be potentially heading for rough times.
    As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is little more than a solitary man with a messy apartment which may or may not contain a chicken.

    It's all fun and games until people start getting eaten

  6. #5126
    Hastatas Posterior
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Then again I have always wondered what if there is a yes vote but it is a narrow one (Say 51-52% yes) and highly concentrated. Would the rest of Scotland just be happy and accept it or would these areas try to break off to remain in the UK. Indeed what happens if it is 51-52% no and just as concentrated is also a concern.

  7. #5127
    Lazzeer's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by nemgod View Post
    Then again I have always wondered what if there is a yes vote but it is a narrow one (Say 51-52% yes) and highly concentrated. Would the rest of Scotland just be happy and accept it or would these areas try to break off to remain in the UK. Indeed what happens if it is 51-52% no and just as concentrated is also a concern.
    Exactly. Personally I think there's less risk with a 51-52% no vote - it's unlikely that the nationalists would want just some parts of Scotland to have independence - they want all of Scotland to be independent. I imagine they'll just recoup their losses, and maybe see it as a mandate to renew the debate in 10-15 years time. In the meantime though there'd be a clear mandate for more devolution.

    If a concentrated ~51% votes Yes, then it becomes slightly more complex. Ultimately it's a political question; can Holyrood force independence on anyone? It largely depends how people react to a Yes referendum. So long as there's minimal regional disparity (most regions with +45%) then it shouldn't be too much of an issue, and I'd imagine those regions would just "go along with it" so to speak. It becomes an issue if 2 things happen - A: certain regions vote overwhelmingly No (e.g. +60% no) or B: if the negotiations become bogged down/things go downhill economically.

    According to the current timetable for independence, as laid out in the white paper, independence would be expected by March/April 2016. This is probably unlikely, as quite simply there's far too much to discuss, and it's likely that some issues (most notably trident, and a currency union) would be particularly troublesome. The problem is however that Scottish elections are scheduled for May 2016. As such, if there's only a narrow mandate for independence, and if things go badly post-referendum, then it's wholly possible that the SNP might actually be booted out of government mid-negotiation. A new government (potentially even a Unionist grand coalition) could attempt to halt the negotiations, or call for a new referendum.

    The above is basically a doomsday scenario, and tbh it's wholly possible that were Scotland to vote Yes (even if marginally) then the rUK might not even want us back. However I guess what I'm essentially saying is that nothing is set in stone, even in the event of a Yes vote.
    As far as I can tell, your entire enterprise is little more than a solitary man with a messy apartment which may or may not contain a chicken.

    It's all fun and games until people start getting eaten

  8. #5128
    YukonTrooper's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    I was just thinking how much I'd love to see a Farage/Galloway debate on this issue. All substance and no filler in that one.
    Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals. Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus. [A] necessary degree of fear, [...] frontier incidents and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention. The CIA and SIS should use [...] capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension. [Funding should be provided for a] Free Syria Committee [and arms should be supplied to] political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities.
    ~ Joint US-UK leaked Intelligence Document, 1957

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