View Poll Results: How will or would you vote in a referendum for Scottish

Voters
573. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am Scottish - Yes

    23 4.01%
  • I am Scottish - No

    17 2.97%
  • I am from another part of the UK - Yes

    28 4.89%
  • I am from another part of the UK - No

    105 18.32%
  • I am from outside the UK - Yes

    225 39.27%
  • I am from outside the UK - No

    175 30.54%
Page 271 of 271 FirstFirst ... 171 221 246 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271
Results 5,401 to 5,412 of 5412

Thread: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

  1. #5401
    Gatsby's Avatar Pili Posterior
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Glasgow, Weegiedonia
    Posts
    2,609

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    I think the general dismay at the immense inertia and general rubbishness of British politics is what allows Yes support to withstand such scrutiny. I would appreciate being rid of FPTP, constant speculation of UKIP triumph, the Con/Lab duarchy, the HoL, and Boris Johnson. Sometimes I wonder if it could actually be worth the marginal economic dent.

    In fact the only part of our current state that I actually would like to keep in case of independence is a traditional uncodified constitution. I don't see the point: good parts of a modern constitution can be ignored if a democracy falls into enough disrepair regardless of the de jure inviolability of their laws; the parts that prove outdated only take longer to rectify.
    Music would take over at the point at which words become powerless, with the one and only object of expressing that which nothing but music could express.

  2. #5402
    YukonTrooper's Avatar Princeps Posterior
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,637

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    If the Yes party didn't have such buffoons for leadership, the Yes vote would be 80%. If the establishment wasn't so blatantly undemocratic and prone to bullying, the No vote would be doing a lot better.
    Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals. Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus. [A] necessary degree of fear, [...] frontier incidents and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention. The CIA and SIS should use [...] capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension. [Funding should be provided for a] Free Syria Committee [and arms should be supplied to] political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities.
    ~ Joint US-UK leaked Intelligence Document, 1957

  3. #5403
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Fabrum
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    58,866

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Yeah bloody establishment. STOP BEING THE MAN

  4. #5404
    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK, Terra.
    Posts
    2,067

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by YukonTrooper View Post
    If the Yes party didn't have such buffoons for leadership, the Yes vote would be 80%. If the establishment wasn't so blatantly undemocratic and prone to bullying, the No vote would be doing a lot better.
    I feel as if this is just some general statement you've made without actually looking at anything my friend

    The Yes party in all fairness has actually a very Charismatic leader in Salmond, he's failing though in the area of real factual analysis of his own and other potential policies for an independent Scotland to adopt.

    'The establishment' on the other hand- i think you may be looking for a different word than 'undemocratic'... as that rather falls short considering the UK is allowing us to hold a referendum to choose... so that's rather the opposite. The accusation of bullying i find amusing as it's actually what the SNP from the Yes side has been blamed for- attempting to silence academic criticism of their position, knowingly using false figures for oil production, making up lies about advice received from experts about the EU-

    On camera being interviewed by Andrew Neil, the First Minister announced that he had legal advice on Scotland's ability to remain in the EU. He then went to great lengths to cover up this lie by denying through the courts (costing 12,000) a freedom of information request to gain sight of it, only to be betrayed as a liar by his deputy Nicola Sturgeon who informed us that no advice had actually been sought. The EU Commission added to Sturgeon's statement that no letter or communication to it could be found seeking any advice. Salmond must have known that no such advice was sought but hoped using the courts he would not be found out to be liar.
    http://www.thinkscotland.org/thinkli...ead_full=11806
    Heck just before the debate the SNP were caught backing up a total lie about the NHS:

    Dr Whitford said in a speech that has been watched by more than 60,000
    people on youtube that a hospital in Gateshead would have to consider
    cancelling gullet cancer operations because of moves to privatise the NHS
    in England.

    This claim has been exposed as untrue in today’s Daily Record. The Chief
    Executive of the North East NHS Foundation Sir Leonard Fenwisk, described
    this claim as the “biggest load of crap I have ever heard” and “codswallop”.

    As the nationalist campaign gets more desperate, they have resorted to
    lies about our NHS. The tactic has backfired in recent weeks as a range of
    experts have spoken out to call these claims for what they are – lies.
    https://www.politicshome.com/uk/arti..._nhs_lies.html

    What's even stranger is the Nationalist camp are lying about the NHS in general:

    Alex Salmond’s claims Scotland’s NHS is in jeopardy from a No vote is the “most scandalous deceit of this referendum campaign”, MSPs have heard as he faced accusations of trying to scare people into voting for independence.Opposition MSPs said the greatest threat to funding for Scotland’s health service comes from leaving the UK as impartial economists have warned an additional 6 billion of spending cuts would be required.

    In heated exchanges, they challenged Mr Salmond and Alex Neil, his Health Minister, to justify their claims that spending on the English health service is being cut through privatisation and this would be passed onto Scotland following a No vote.

    But, when challenged, Mr Neil could not provide a single example of the Treasury having cut the English NHS budget, which is increasing by more than inflation.

    In a further embarrassment for the Nationalists, it emerged that Mike Russell, the Education Minister, wrote a book advocating the privatisation of NHS facilities that “failed to maintain profitability”.
    Especially again considering an Independent Scotland would have a 6 billion hole in it's budget potentially as said by the Independent Institute of fiscal studies... so i think if we are going to play the NHS fear card, it's the Independence Camp who should be scrutinized as their the ones who are going to have to make cuts:

    Mr Findlay also quoted Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish Government’s White Paper on independence as saying devolution would protect the NHS from any privatisation in England.Malcolm Chisholm, a Labour MSP and former Scottish Health Minister, said: “Isn’t the real threat to the Scottish NHS the possibility of a Yes vote and the increased austerity that would follow according to all independent economists?”
    Mr Neil claimed this was “totally factually incorrect” but the impartial Institute for Fiscal Studies has warned billions of pounds of extra spending cuts would be required to cope with sharply declining oil revenues.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...eferendum.html

    What's more to the point is that the NHS in Scotland can't actually be privatized at all, as it's totally under the control of Holyrood already... so it's MSP's only who would vote to say if they want to privatize it or not... nothing to do with Westminster.

    So all in all:
    "Alex Salmond lied when he said he had EU legal advice when he hadn't.
    John Swinney said he was in discussions with the Bank of England on a
    currency union when he wasn't.

    "Now the Yes campaign are trying to scare cancer patients, the sick and
    the vulnerable with stories which are simply untrue.

    "Alex Neil knows that the NHS in Scotland cannot be privatised - he said
    it himself.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...eferendum.html

    I think you've got the bullying aspect the wrong way round totally my friend.
    House of Caesars: Under the Patronage of ☩Lord Inquisitor Derpy Hooves☩


  5. #5405
    Pielstick's Avatar Princeps Prior
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kent, UK
    Posts
    1,453

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    I don't know about you guys but I think it's starting to turn ugly on places like Facebook. I've got a lot of Scottish friends and the back and forth between the Yes and No supporters is getting pretty nasty. From what I can see the No supporters are remaining pretty civil and well behaved, but the Yes supporters - probably in the knowledge they are on the backfoot - are coming out swinging with some really nasty and unpleasant stuff. I called out anti-English prejudice as one of the main motivating factors for many Yes supporters many months ago, and looking at the stuff on my Facebook feed now that sentiment is tangible.

    An old friend of mine from my cadet days who lives up in Dufftown has been flooding Facebook with a steady stream of pro-independence articles and opinion. I took him to task last week and we had an argument back and forth all day long..... I pretty much destroyed his Yes argument and in the end all he could manage was "Well you're not Scottish so your opinion means nothing to me you don't have a vote." (I'll chalk that one up as a win then ) before carrying on with all the emotive crap about not having the government they voted for, what a bunch of arseholes the Tories are and how awesome iScotland will be, blah blah blah.

    This whole thing has been very divisive and I've seen some utterly venomous and downright nasty stuff coming from Yes supporters. Whatever the vote is next month I think a lot of damage has been done, and all so that cretinous little shite Salmond can further his political career.


  6. #5406
    caratacus's Avatar Pili
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    1,786

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Pielstick View Post
    I don't know about you guys but I think it's starting to turn ugly on places like Facebook. I've got a lot of Scottish friends and the back and forth between the Yes and No supporters is getting pretty nasty. From what I can see the No supporters are remaining pretty civil and well behaved, but the Yes supporters - probably in the knowledge they are on the backfoot - are coming out swinging with some really nasty and unpleasant stuff. I called out anti-English prejudice as one of the main motivating factors for many Yes supporters many months ago, and looking at the stuff on my Facebook feed now that sentiment is tangible.

    An old friend of mine from my cadet days who lives up in Dufftown has been flooding Facebook with a steady stream of pro-independence articles and opinion. I took him to task last week and we had an argument back and forth all day long..... I pretty much destroyed his Yes argument and in the end all he could manage was "Well you're not Scottish so your opinion means nothing to me you don't have a vote." (I'll chalk that one up as a win then ) before carrying on with all the emotive crap about not having the government they voted for, what a bunch of arseholes the Tories are and how awesome iScotland will be, blah blah blah.

    This whole thing has been very divisive and I've seen some utterly venomous and downright nasty stuff coming from Yes supporters. Whatever the vote is next month I think a lot of damage has been done, and all so that cretinous little shite Salmond can further his political career.
    The thing is, all that venom will not disappear if the vote is yes. There will be a tremendous amount of resentment by the Unionists in Scotland whilst the English who so far seem to be ambivalent, will become increasingly prickly when it comes to the actual separation. Divorces seldom ever happen without acrimony and recrimination. People forget that the Union of 1707 helped heal a division which had seen some of the most violent conflicts in Europe between countries, which lasted hundreds of years. Although, war is unlikely to happen for another hundred, good relations may be stretched severely.

  7. #5407
    Condottiere 40K's Avatar Tribunus Augusticlavii
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    14,627

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    It may come down to who has more enthusiastic supporters willing to go out and vote, rather than actual numbers of people in Scotland who have an opinion, one way or another.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  8. #5408
    Shaun's Avatar Manbearpig
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    13,524

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Has there been any recent polls conducted after Monday's debate? Would be interesting to see if there has been any noticeable swing.
    Under the patronage of Rhah and brother of eventhorizen. Member of SIN

  9. #5409
    Stavroforos's Avatar Legatus Legionis
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Eyālet-i Jezāyir-i Baḥr-i Sefīd
    Posts
    29,102

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    I can't understand how people thought Salmond came on top in that debate. Like, I haven't been keeping track of the SNP, him, the debate, or anything, but god he seems like such a tool who's debating has more in common with some members here who try to deliver one liners and backhanded insults rather than debate.
    -ΠΑΣ ΜΗ ΕΛΛΗΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ-

  10. #5410
    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Scotland, UK, Terra.
    Posts
    2,067

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Has there been any recent polls conducted after Monday's debate? Would be interesting to see if there has been any noticeable swing.
    Well i've found some from the 26th.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...l-tracker.html

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/scottis...nce-referendum

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/sco...s/poll-tracker

    Consistently (though the lead varies from poll to poll) The no camp are ahead quite comfortably. Coupling this with the the fact that the debate on the spot audience poll impact was so minimal we can say quite safely Salmond hasn't achieved the major swing he needed. Potentially it could be close. But it will be a No victory (Thankfully, then we can talk about devo-max and hopefully looking at the UK as a whole).
    House of Caesars: Under the Patronage of ☩Lord Inquisitor Derpy Hooves☩


  11. #5411
    Pielstick's Avatar Princeps Prior
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kent, UK
    Posts
    1,453

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by caratacus View Post
    The thing is, all that venom will not disappear if the vote is yes. There will be a tremendous amount of resentment by the Unionists in Scotland
    Absolutely. Even if Yes wins, there will still be a huge number of Scots finding themselves in an independent Scotland they never voted for. Which is why the "We never voted for the Tories" argument from the pro-indy supporters is so bloody disingenuous.


    The more I look at how Salmond has pitched independence at the Scottish people, the more I actually look into "the plan" the more I think the SNP are either completely inept idiots who genuinely don't have a clue what they're doing, or that this whole referendum was never a serious attempt at independence and more of a way to kick copious amounts of sand in Westminster's face.


  12. #5412
    Ferrets54's Avatar Praefectus Fabrum
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    58,866

    Default Re: Scottish Independence Referendum is agreed: vote in 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Pielstick View Post
    Absolutely. Even if Yes wins, there will still be a huge number of Scots finding themselves in an independent Scotland they never voted for. Which is why the "We never voted for the Tories" argument from the pro-indy supporters is so bloody disingenuous.
    That's an extremely good way to make that point.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •