Suggestions

[FFJean]

Dear Steph,

I know that the economical aspect is not easy to mod. Maybe through changing the value of the different resources something could be done? Maybe also through giving more value to UK and NL trade ships (if this is possible) than to French trade ships, and then more to French ships than to others like Russian, Prussian or the like?

With regards to the different structures of the armies of the different countries (conscription vs. professional vs. "Janissaries plus local troops" types), do you have any idea how to model such differencies?

Please tell me if you get tired of these endless questions, but please take into account that at least in my mind, they are only meant to support.

All the best,

FFJean

[Steph]

For the economy, we cannot add more slots, or edit the map. So we can mostly change the income and population of cities...
For the ships, we can play with the recruitment limits to give more or less ships

As for the types of armies, it's again limited to recruitment limit, upkeep and building cost (i.e. British units are more expensive). We use the real life value to define a kind of 'frame" and then define the other units relatively to it.

Real life example
British Line Infantry recruitment cost per man £30.82
France Line Infantry recruitment cost per man £18.20
Russian Line Infantryman recruitment cost per man £16.00

In the game, this gives a base value of 2.0 for French line infantry, 3.0 for British and 1.75 for Russia.

[FFJean]

Dear Steph,

I will try to dig in some information regarding the economical situation of different countries and offer some rationale (comparative between countries) to support as much as I can, if you agree, rather than only asking questions ;-)

Best regards,

FFJean

[Steph]

Please go ahead.

[FFJean]

Dear Steph,

As I am pretty useless on IT matters, can I use an Excel spreadsheet to try to store all information I find that could (maybe) be useful for this mod? I really don't know which other tool I could use, I am only familiar with word, excel and powerpoint (my tolls at work).

Best regards,

FFJean

[FFJean]

(my tools sorry)

[Prince of Essling]

Dear Steph,

Thank you for your quick answer and transparent information. I am totally convinced that you do use first quality information to build the game. My point is just to take advantage of collective thinking to try to model as accurately as possible real differences between countries, not only regarding units per se (uniforms, numbers, quality, etc) but also more campaign oriented decisions. For example, differences between countries using professional armies only (which is the case for the UK if I understand correctly), conscription based armies (France, but also some other countries later in game like Prussia, again, if I understand correctly), mixes of types (like Russia which used non professional "tribes type" units, like Cossacks, and the "Sublime Porte" - Turkey - for which the memo Prince of Essling wrote is both enlightening and appears very difficult to mod) would be very interesting as it would add much depth by highlighting important differencies in recruitment (type and cost) and maybe also maintenance costs and (most probably very difficult to mod) length during which each type could be used.

Equally, I think that there are much differences between the economical situation of UK (in which the industrial revolution had already started at the end of the 18th century), France (where this revolution was only starting) and Russia for example where the social/economical system was clearly unable to go along that route. Equally, it is clear that countries had different experiences regarding the importance of foreign trade (this was the basis of the French-led "continental blockade").

But I am very confident your mod does plan to take into account as much as possible all these aspects. Just wanting to highlight how important they are to differentiate deeply the different factions.

Best regards, and all the best for this great mod,

FFJean

Good historic economic data can be found at The European State Finance Database (edited by Dr Catherine Casson), http://esfdb.websites.bta.com/ It is an international project for the collection, archiving and dissemination of data on European fiscal history from the medieval to modern periods. The data is available free of charge. A wide range of countries are covered including Austria, England, France, the Low Countries, Poland, Prussia, Russia, Spain, Spanish America and Switzerland. Much of the data relates to different types of taxes, but there is also material relating to army size, wool and cloth exports and imports and stock prices. Full instructions on how to use the database are on the bottom of the first page.

[FFJean]

Dear Steph and L'Aigle,

You may have already these few informations, but they seemed to me interesting:

- Population of Ireland in 1801 (Ireland was not part of the 1801 census, so it is only a approximation, source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._1801-1921.svg)

Ireland = 5.2M inhabitants (sources give from 4.5M to 5.5M with most giving 5.2M).

- Population of England/Wales/Scotland from Britain 1801 census (source: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/te...1ABS_1&show=DB)
England = 8.3M inhabitants;
Wales = 0.5M inhabitants;
Scotland = 1.6M inhabitants.
(disregarding the military, seamen and convicts that can easily be either calculated as a percentage of the whole or discarded)
SUMMARY OF ENUMERATION
M.DCCC.I.

[FFJean]

Very sorry for this, I tried to copy/paste the census figures and apparently did it wrong. Please refer to the indicated kinks to get the original data I tried to paste in my post. Sorry again, my bad IT skills!

[Prince of Essling]

Very sorry for this, I tried to copy/paste the census figures and apparently did it wrong. Please refer to the indicated kinks to get the original data I tried to paste in my post. Sorry again, my bad IT skills!

Not your bad IT skills, just the inability of the forum to import formatted tables!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steph]

I used my tremendous local administrator power to remove the list that was difficult to read.

I have a table somewhere on my home computer with the populations of the different countries in Europe.

It's a mixed of different online sources, including the Imperial almanach 1805.

I'll try to post the main figures here for comparison.

It shows the total population of the factions, but not the breakdown into several regions, which would be interesting to get for Russia, France, Austria, etc...

For France, I have the population in every city in the Almanach, but trying to group them to get the population of the regions would be extremly tedious...

[FFJean]

Per capita size (tonnage) of the merchant fleets in 1800 (source: http://www2.lse.ac.uk/economicHistor...gence(LSE).pdf):
- England: 84.0;
- Netherlands: 198.9;
- Italy: 16.4;
- Iberia (Spain and Portugal): 21.9;
- Germany: 8.6;
- France: 25.2;
- Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway and Denmark): 158.0.
Trying to find more precise data.

[FFJean]

Dear Steph,

Just to give you the Britain 1801 census data, it is on "http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/ce...suses_page.jsp". Just click on 1801 and you have all precise data (England, Wales and Scotland each identified). These are the numbers (rounded) I put on my first mail (the one you had to edit). Again info for Ireland is ROM.

Best regards,

FFJean

[FFJean]

Dear Steph,

Is there a way I can paste full internet addresses?

FFJean

[Steph]

World Population: Major Countries 1805

• France: 30 M, 38 M 1810, dont 4 M Belgique
• Russia: 26 M + (4 M Pologne 2.5 à Varsovie)
• Austria; 22 M, 14 M sans Italy
• Prussia: 5 M, 3 M 1810
• Great Britain: 12 M
  
  • England / Wales: 9 M
  • Scotland: 1.5 M
  • Ireland : 4 M
  
  
• Ottoman : 8 M en Europe + 1 M Grèce
• Sweden: 2. 5 M + 1 M Finland, total environ 3M
• Denmark; 2.5 M, dont 1 M Norway
• Pays bas : 2 M
• Suisse : 2 M
• Portugal: 2 M
• Spain: 10 M
• Italy: total 14 M, dont
  
  • Naples: 6 M
  • Venise : 2 M
  • Etat Pape: 2 M
  • Italy kindgdom : 4 M
  
  
• Allemagne : 25 M dont
  
  • Bavaria : 3.2 M
  • Wurttemberg : 1.1 M + 0.9 M Baden
  • Saxony: 2 M à 5.6 (?)
  • Hessen + Nassau: 0.8 M
  • Berge / Cleves : 0.9 M
  • Mecklembourg : 0.5 M
  • Oldenburg: 0.2 M
  • Westphalia (Hannover) : 2 M

[FFJean]

Should be very easy to calculate the tonnage of trade ships then! Exact UK figures are in my first mail (including differentation between Wales and England).

[FFJean]

I am trying to copy paste the 1811 vs. 1801 Britain census (source: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/te...811PRE&show=DB):

"The SUMMARY of the enumeration of 1801, as compared with that of 1811, is as follows:

The Number of Males composing the ARMY, NAVY, &C. includes The Regular Army, The Artillery, and The British Regular Militia, all according to the Returns to Parliament in 1811; but the Regiments of Local Militia, which were embodied for Training and Exercise on the 27th May 1811, have been ascribed to their respective Counties. With the Navy are included The Royal Marines: and to all these are added The Seamen, employed in navigating Registered Vessels."

Just hoping that this copy/paste will no tbe as bad as my former one!

[FFJean]

Trying again... See attached

[FFJean]

Re trying again. Britain 1801 and 1811 censuses attached.

[FFJean]

I don't seem to be able to copy/paste as I intended, so here are the information:

1801: England = 8,331,434; Wales = 541,546; Scotland = 1,599,068; Army = 198,351; Navy = 126,279; Seamen in registered shipping = 144,558; Convicts = 1,410.
1811: England = 9,538,827; Wales = 611,788; Scotland = 1,805,688; Army/Navy/Seamen/Convicts (no details though) = 640,500.

Same source (visionofbritain). I will try to get more details on the Army/Navy/Seamen/Convicts split.