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Thread: Suggestions

  1. #61
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    I plan to make Ottomans as accurate as I could. If you want them to be really good, you can help by providing reference pictures for the uniform, and propose army lists with proper names in Turkish.

    I always try to give the name in their national language and not in English, but since I speak only English, French and a little German, I have to rely on online sources or translator, and I can't tell if they are not correct.

  2. #62
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    Some informations about Ottoman units : The Ottoman Empire - Gameplay Discussion
    At the beginning of the XIXth century, Ottoman army was still a mix between old system units and new Europeanized ones.

    Goutlard could be helpful about this subject.
    Last edited by wangrin; December 26, 2012 at 06:30 AM.


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  3. #63
    Prince of Essling's Avatar Napoleonic Enthusiast
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by wangrin View Post
    Some informations about Ottoman units : The Ottoman Empire - Gameplay Discussion
    At the beginning of the XIXth century, Ottoman army was still a mix between old system units and new Europeanized ones.

    Goutlard could be helpful about this subject.
    Indeed useful, but don't forget my note "Ottoman army in the Napoleonic Wars" http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=469295
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  4. #64
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    Yes, I believe Prince of Esslings thread on the organisation and composition of the Ottoman Army is probably the best I have seen

  5. #65
    TheRomanRuler's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    Perhaps you could include some kind of regional militia, who have very good morale and slightly better stats compared to regular militia, but wery low campaign movement speed making them function as garrison troops. They fight for their homes, so they have will to fight, but being paramilitary they wont join campaigns.
    Apologies for anyone who's message i may miss or not be able to answer

  6. #66
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    I think anyone will be willing to fight for their homes, not just a select group of "regional militia", so why restrict this bonus to just them.
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  7. #67
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    That's what the garrison units are there for.

    When you attack a city, you will get some citizens (very weak units) and some garrison unit: usually better than militia, but not as good as line infantry.

    And regional militia don't have reason to have a very good morale. Morale on the battlefield is not only a measure of your will to fight, but your ability to sustain casualties, keep cohesion, face a charge without flinching... This can be improved with training an experience.

    Just the will to fight would give more guerilla style warfare (like in Spain) than marching on a battlefield toward the ennemy cannons!

  8. #68
    TheRomanRuler's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    Oh, i just completly forgot them EDIT: (garrisons) Never mind then, continue your great work.
    Last edited by TheRomanRuler; February 14, 2013 at 12:15 PM.
    Apologies for anyone who's message i may miss or not be able to answer

  9. #69

    Icon4 Independent packs

    First, I would like to congratulate your magnificient work on that mod, it is by far the best mod ever made to a total war game. But since the mod isn't totaly stable yet (especialy on campaign) I tought it would be a good idea to divide the nation's skins in packs. That way we would be able to enjoy your super skins and maybe be able to detect what part of your work makes the game crash.

    Thanks for reading and please, continue your amazing art.

  10. #70
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    Do you mean, like having "MoE_France_texture.pack", "MoE_Britain_texture.pback", etc.... which we already have?

  11. #71

    Default Re: Suggestions

    No I meant having whole britain's units in one pack and same thing separatly with France|Prussia|Austria|etc. Is it more clear?

  12. #72
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    That won't work very well.
    For custom battles, if you think Austria for example is buggy, you can play battle with Britain vs France only if you prefer. You don't need packs for that.

    And in the campaign, since the campaign map references the new units, the game would crash if you don't include all the packs, with all the units.

    I mean: battles can be limited to only some units. But not the campaign, since when you load the campaign you load all the factions.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Suggestions

    Yeah I guess I understand the problematic. The major problem for me with your mod it's that it crashes one battle out of two on the campaign... It's why I tought it would be a good idea to seperate your mod in a bunch of mini-mods.

  14. #74
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    I wish I could do that to test it separately, unfortunately the startpos includes everything and is not modular.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Suggestions

    Bah at least you tought about it

  16. #76

    Default Re: Suggestions

    To beautify this mod even further maybe you could ask Pdguru to lend you his horse face retexture, best i've seen yet.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Suggestions

    Dear Steph and L'Aigle,

    First I would like to state how impressive and (something which is for me the most important) historical your units and the time and efforts you obviously spent on research are. This clearly stands out as a remarkable achievement!

    I would just like to point out two aspects and/or examples that are more linked to the campaign/s you will create than to any pure battle play and on which I think some explanations (please understand me, just a suggestion) would be great:

    - do you plan/have you used anything like the RR/RC tool? It would be great to exchange (of course you will always have the final say as mod leaders but from an open discussion good fruits could emerge) around such logics as one that could lead to (maybe slightly) different costs to recruit/to maintain the same type of units depending on the experience of each country / group of countries. Equally it would be great, always with the target to be as historically compliant as possible, to try to better guesstimate the different costs and lengths of recruitment as ships (requiring both the building of the ship herself and the training of its crew), artillery, infantery (for which provision of the equipment is almost negligible on most cases and most of the difference would be training, also this was not the case at least for the French Imperial Guard in 1805 as it was originally composee by hand picking of the best, bravest and tallest - well see Jean-Roch Coignet ;-) - men of the Army, but I guess this can't be done due to the limitations of the game engine) and cavalry.

    - on a comparable aspect, I think that it would be great to discuss a bit the economics of each country, as I am fairly convinced that Vanilla NTW doesn't take this aspect well into account.

    Sorry if this is a bit long and please forgive me if I just ask questions without really being able to do more, and please take all this development for what it is, the desire to support what will be without any doubt the best NTW mod ever.

    Best regards (and put the lame on my French English please if I was not clear sometimes),

    FFJean

  18. #78
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    For recruitment cost and time and upkeep, we did some research with Prince of Essling, and manage to dig out the real training time, and cost in £ of different types of units (like Infantry, Dragoons, etc).
    We also found the cost and upkeep of ships based on the size, number of guns, mast, etc.

    However, this is not possible to model directly in the game, since for example, a ship would actually take months if not year to build (due to the time needed to let the wood dry).

    So we used it more as guideline to define the relative cost and building time of different units, and then we rebalanced it for gameplay taking into account the limitation of the engine.

    Example of some of the date we used in the study

    Estimated recruitment times to allow very basic skills to be taught:
    Line infantry - 4 weeks
    Light Infantry/Rifles/Jäger - 8 weeks
    Cavalry - 12 weeks
    Artillery -12 weeks

    Line Infantry
    This is based on a 4 weeks training period, equipping, feeding, pay etc:
    British Line Infantry recruitment cost per man £30.82
    France Line Infantry recruitment cost per man £18.20
    Austria/Prussia Line Infantry recruitment cost per man £17.56
    Russian Line Infantryman recruitment cost per man £16.00

    Dragoons:
    This is based on a 12 weeks training period, equipping, feeding, pay etc:
    British recruitment cost per man £321.21
    France recruitment cost per man £309.09
    Austria/Prussia recruitment cost per man £305
    Russian recruitment cost per man £296.96

    Upkeep

    Infantryman per week £2.03 (covers food, pay, an allowance for replacement clothing & ammo resupply),

    Cavalryman per week £2.54 (covers food for rider & horse, pay, an allowance for replacement clothing & resupply)

    Foot artillery man per week: £2.88
    plus £3.07 per week per gun (8pdr used as a base)

    Horse artillery man per week: £3.25
    plus £4.10 per week per gun (6pdr used as a base)

    Assuming due to casulaties, horses breaking down etc a regiment would neeed to replace all of its horses during a 12 month period, you should allow £1 per month for a heavy cavalry horse & £0.33 per month for a light cavalry horse; for the British allow £2.5 per month for a heavy cavalry horse & £2 per month for a light cavalry horse (horses cost considerably more in the UK).

    United States Navy: Shipbuilding Costs 1811

    Estimate of the expense of building & completely equipping for actual service vessels of war of various rates and annual expense of each.

    Rate Expense of Building. (In dollars) Annual Expense of Each. (In dollars)*
    $ per Gun Dollars (Total)
    74 4,500 333,000 211,784
    60 4,500 270,000 140,000
    50 4,500 225,000 115,214
    44 4,500 198,000 110,000
    36 4,500 162,000 102,000
    32 4,000 128,000 82,000
    20 3,500 70,000 50,202




    As you can see, we have amassed a farily extensive documentation and we don't do much without a good research and thinking first.
    Last edited by Steph; April 12, 2013 at 01:12 PM.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Suggestions

    Dear Steph,

    Thank you for your quick answer and transparent information. I am totally convinced that you do use first quality information to build the game. My point is just to take advantage of collective thinking to try to model as accurately as possible real differences between countries, not only regarding units per se (uniforms, numbers, quality, etc) but also more campaign oriented decisions. For example, differences between countries using professional armies only (which is the case for the UK if I understand correctly), conscription based armies (France, but also some other countries later in game like Prussia, again, if I understand correctly), mixes of types (like Russia which used non professional "tribes type" units, like Cossacks, and the "Sublime Porte" - Turkey - for which the memo Prince of Essling wrote is both enlightening and appears very difficult to mod) would be very interesting as it would add much depth by highlighting important differencies in recruitment (type and cost) and maybe also maintenance costs and (most probably very difficult to mod) length during which each type could be used.

    Equally, I think that there are much differences between the economical situation of UK (in which the industrial revolution had already started at the end of the 18th century), France (where this revolution was only starting) and Russia for example where the social/economical system was clearly unable to go along that route. Equally, it is clear that countries had different experiences regarding the importance of foreign trade (this was the basis of the French-led "continental blockade").

    But I am very confident your mod does plan to take into account as much as possible all these aspects. Just wanting to highlight how important they are to differentiate deeply the different factions.

    Best regards, and all the best for this great mod,

    FFJean

  20. #80
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Suggestions

    Yes, but the problem is we have only a few parameters we can change in the engine. So we can't always make what we'd like. Beside, the map is not editable, so we have only few possibilities to change the economy.

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