Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: Longbows vs. Crossbows

  1. #21

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    Quote Originally Posted by DC53 View Post
    Why do you say that? Just want to know.
    Later era crossbows definitely outranged longbows, its mentioned many times in sieges but it is not as clear what type of crossbow they were. My opinion is that some crossbows by late 1400s carried into the field could outrange longbows but most of the time they were still less useful due to very low rate of fire and lower accuracy at those long ranges. Siege crossbows which were quite large definitely outranged any handheld bows but were not common aside from sieges.

  2. #22
    Andytheplatypus's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    . U.S. - MS, Gulf Coast.
    Posts
    2,385

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    i have read a lot of sources from around the early 1300 claiming longer range than bows but much slower reload. battle of sluys(spelling?)

    english fleet against french fleet shows the advantage of faster firing range weapons

  3. #23

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    Nice job man I've read of all this stuff before and know it but the way you explained was much better and easier to understand cheers mate

  4. #24

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    Quote Originally Posted by Andytheplatypus View Post
    i have read a lot of sources from around the early 1300 claiming longer range than bows but much slower reload. battle of sluys(spelling?)

    english fleet against french fleet shows the advantage of faster firing range weapons
    I think that in this case (just like any other) context is vital. De Slag bij Sluys was a naval battle, which means diffrent tactics and actions from both parties in contrast to the land battles which, I assume, have been the context we've been thinking of untill now
    Quote Originally Posted by wyrda78 View Post
    Well maybe if there was a thread instructing people on how to mod there would be more modders.

  5. #25
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    5,372

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    Crossbow has a very short draw length.

    Therefore the string does not contact the bolt long enough to propel it to its full potential. A very powerful crossbow is highly inefficient. even a 1200 lb pull weight crossbow cannot surpass 200 ft per sec. About the same velocity as the longbow.

    The crossbow is far more accurate, it can be locked and cocked for long periods of time, therefore it can be fired quickly during a quickly developing situation.

    Mechanical accuracy is almost always superior to skill related accuracy. William Tell used a crossbow, not a longbow.

    velocity and kinetic energy wise there is not a tremendous difference. longbows and crossbows have been tested against armor with not so impressive results. There is absolutely no way either will mortally wound a man wearing high quality plate and negligible chance of penetrating slightly lower quality plate. when under gambeson is factored in you can forget either mortally wounding a knight or man at arms.


    One example we can look at is the death of King Richard by a crossbow bolt. I assume on the battlefield and near the enemy castle scouting out its defenses he was surely wearing his armor. Only an idiot would not. At that time heavy mail was the armor of choice. The crossbow that hit him was late 12th century. It penetrated the heavy mail and whatever was under it delivering a mortal wound that he later died of.

    So we can definitely beyond a shadow of doubt probably infer that the crossbow would penetrate heavy mail but had difficulty penetrating plate. It is also possible the longbow also could have penetrated heavy mail. Both projectiles seemed conditioned toward defeating mail armor.

    One has to also factor in the method and use of weapons during Crecy. The English fought on foot and kept their horses safe. Therefore only archers and armored men at arms were targets. If the crossbows target is to weaken the men at arms and if they wore at least partial plate than it would be difficult to inflict injury unless it hits the more unprotected mail locations. The french could have weakened the longbows who had almost no armor but they were probably gunning for the knights. So aside from lack of shields and lack of plate they probably got killt off easier.

    We know that the armor of the time shifted to limb covered plate with heavy mail covered torso. There is a reason for this. A shield could protect the torso but not so much the limbs. Sorry if I am mixing it up in here a bit but trying to relay my memory on this information as it comes out of my brain so I won,t forget.

    For the English they had elevation for more range,................and most important of all, they were firing into a mass of mounted knights with unprotected horses. They didn't need to kill the knight to stop the charge they just needed to kill his horse. Which war horses could take a few arrows and a few seconds to minutes to bleed out. The arrows used probably were not the kind to sever a bunch of arteries in the horse. They were really just pointy things designed to penetrate so a horse could probably soak up a few arrows before it faltered and collapsed.

    Once the french knights were dehorsed they were much closer and were being hammered at point blank range with arrows. aimed arrows, not volley of generally aimed arrows. The archers were specifically targeting weak spots in the knights armor. The French knights were tired so when the fresh English knights attacked they had all the advantages while the French had none.


    I am open to correction. I can't remember for instance exactly the real dimensions of crossbow bolt cross section compared to long bow arrow cross section. Only remembering some of the stuff I read.
    Last edited by Valiant Champion; May 17, 2018 at 07:38 PM.

  6. #26
    Nemesis2345's Avatar Foederatus
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Constanta, Romania
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    Also do not forget about the risks of the weapons. Sure, the longbow and even the bow were very powerful, but they needed alot of training while de xbow was preety straightforward : point, shoot, reload, repeat. One major disadvantage of the xbow was the strenght needed for constant reloads (especially before reload mechanisms were built), ur arms will fall off litteraly after 10 or so reloads, while the bow was easier (u can see ingame that crossbowmen tire much faster than archers)

  7. #27

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    Crossbow has a very short draw length.

    Therefore the string does not contact the bolt long enough to propel it to its full potential. A very powerful crossbow is highly inefficient. even a 1200 lb pull weight crossbow cannot surpass 200 ft per sec. About the same velocity as the longbow.
    Yes but 200 ft per second is incredibly fast even for heavy warbows, to my knowledge even 150-160lbs longbows achieve 160-170ish feet per second.

    To that point, crossbows are described by Baha ad-Din ibn Shaddad as at least matching the range and power of eastern composite bows already in the 12th century, which is way before anything even close to 1200lbs was available.

    Even a 350-400ish lbs crossbow can match most warbows, for heavier stuff like top longbows you would need about 500-600lbs.

    A 1200lbs crossbow outmatches any longbow below 200lbs(which would be incredibly uncommon) clearly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    One example we can look at is the death of King Richard by a crossbow bolt. I assume on the battlefield and near the enemy castle scouting out its defenses he was surely wearing his armor. Only an idiot would not. At that time heavy mail was the armor of choice. The crossbow that hit him was late 12th century. It penetrated the heavy mail and whatever was under it delivering a mortal wound that he later died of.

    Actually, king Richard was inspecting his troops in camp, it was not during a siege assault, he was unarmored and the shot was incredibly lucky.



    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    So we can definitely beyond a shadow of doubt probably infer that the crossbow would penetrate heavy mail but had difficulty penetrating plate. It is also possible the longbow also could have penetrated heavy mail. Both projectiles seemed conditioned toward defeating mail armor.
    Both heavy crossbows and heavy warbows could penetrate mail relatively reliably, it is plate they had a problem with because the only arrowhead design that can puncture plate is very horrible at penetrating the aketon underneath, because it is a thick triangle that gets dented as it impacts the plate.


    Eastern composite bows had more issues with mail armor for some reason, some argue because they relied on long range too much and thus used lighter arrows than European bowmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    One has to also factor in the method and use of weapons during Crecy. The English fought on foot and kept their horses safe. Therefore only archers and armored men at arms were targets. If the crossbows target is to weaken the men at arms and if they wore at least partial plate than it would be difficult to inflict injury unless it hits the more unprotected mail locations. The french could have weakened the longbows who had almost no armor but they were probably gunning for the knights. So aside from lack of shields and lack of plate they probably got killt off easier.

    Crecy also had English use wagons and cannons as fortified line, something that is constantly ignored.

    So the French were basically assaulting a U shaped fortified wagon fort.
    Last edited by Mamlaz; May 19, 2018 at 05:57 AM.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Longbows vs. Crossbows

    Attack values were derived from research giving joules of energy at impact.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •