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Thread: DCI: Last Alliance - Elrond & Gildor preview & Gil-galad video (page 134) + Gil-galad & Cirdan preview (page 133)

  1. #1661
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Yup, Harad have mûmakil (they still only count as one ).

    War chariots are implemented already, but are still under evaluation; if the animations are up to bar for our taste, and the consequences if they cause problems for players (in the usual elephant manner).

    Elrond and Gildor preview out 28th December





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  2. #1662
    Tar-Falassion's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Although I very much look forward to your preview of BN-dominated Harad, I also wonder at DCI:LA's version of the Easterlings of Rhûn.

    Given that the Easterlings that we all know from the War of the Ring were first heard of in the early second half of the Third Age - Balchoth invasions of Rhovanion, then Wainriders (then PJ's golden plates ) - and that the only other Easterlings that we heard of became the ancestors of the Lossoth , what will your interpretation of Rhûn's native population be like ? Will they also display Numenorean influence (albeit at a lesser degree than Harad ofc) ? Will they follow the same cultural / technological level than the Middle-men of the West ? I can't wait to see what you have in store !

  3. #1663
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Didn't the Easterlings fight against the West in the battles before the Black Gates?

  4. #1664
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    The single most inspiring Easterling quote is this:
    Elsewhere Sauron reigned, and those who would be free took refuge in the fastnesses of wood and mountain, and ever fear pursued them. In the east and south well nigh all Men were under his dominion, and they grew strong in those days and built many towns and walls of stone, and they were numerous and fierce in war and armed with iron.
    - Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
    From that, providing the view of old cultures in their own right, we have went with a divergent style, or rather four and more styles.
    "One" for Rhûn in general that is not actually uniform, as the Easterlings come from vast and diverse parts of the continent, and then three additional distinctions for the, internally called, "tribes" that come into play: Khand, Balchoth and Haerhûn.
    Representing the population from different areas of the starting provinces of Rhûn Confederacy they are on one hand avilable as a AoR-unit in their "home provinces", and on the other hand avilable through a building the player can construct in conquered settlements.
    Khand and Balchoth have the Chieftains Camp/Residence/Court-buildings while Haerhûn have the Chieftains Camp/Court-buildings. These buildings, and you can only chose one "tribe" at a time for a settlement, provide different bonuses to the settlement and allow to recruit different units [in totoal seven], creating a great diversity among the Easterlings (as it properly should be).
    In our opinion this customization provide both entertaining and strategic gameplay.


    The Easterlings particpated in the war in general, so we may say it's highly reasonabel they particpated at Dagorlad, and the battles afterward.
    Now Sauron prepared war against the Eldar and the Men of Westernesse, and the fires of the Mountain were wakened again. ... And Sauron gathered to him great strength of his servants out of the east and the south;
    - Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
    Last edited by Ngugi; November 02, 2015 at 02:19 AM.

    Elrond and Gildor preview out 28th December





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  5. #1665
    Tar-Falassion's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Great response, Ngugi, thank you ! This system will make this faction veeery interesting to play as well !!

    But I was mostly concerned about seeing the Lôkê battalions being used during the Last Alliance, mainly because of the timeline - they seem to me as fit into the Last Alliance years as Gondorian soldiers ...
    So I should reformulate my own question : will the Rhûn faction be only recycling vanilla TATW Easterlings, or do you have some new unique units planned for them ?

  6. #1666
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Aha, oh, no, no. All Rhûn Confederacy units are new in, and custom made for, DCI:LA

    The Loke-rim (based on the movie Easterlings, that had an apperance snatched from/inspired by Haradrim soldiers actually) are not to be seen in DCI, hehe.


    Edit: we did made one sneak peak long ago btw
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13583216

    Elrond and Gildor preview out 28th December





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  7. #1667
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    I always though that the film-easterlings looked more like proper haradrim than clans from rhun.

  8. #1668

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    I hope we get to see those badass axe-wielding bearded Easterlings that the Gondorian soldier refers in RotK .

  9. #1669
    Gratzy2's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Bercor View Post
    I hope we get to see those badass axe-wielding bearded Easterlings that the Gondorian soldier refers in RotK .
    if they are then they'd be "lesser" if you know what i mean, as this is in the 2nd age

    The remnant of the King's Men who survived in Middle-earth after the destruction of Númenor were called the Black Númenóreans since they worshipped Sauron and were "enamoured of evil knowledge". They worshipped Darkness, and believed that Melkor and Sauron were its most powerful servants. At the end of the Second Age two of their number, Herumor and Fuinur, became lords among the Haradrim, though what became of them is unknown.

  10. #1670
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Bercor View Post
    I hope we get to see those badass axe-wielding bearded Easterlings that the Gondorian soldier refers in RotK .
    We'll have wicked axes in sturdy hands represented indeed.
    They are avilable through the Haerhûn [Far East] "tribe" buildings I might spoil, known as the Haerhûn Warriors

    Quote Originally Posted by Gratzy2 View Post
    if they are then they'd be "lesser" if you know what i mean, as this is in the 2nd age
    All we get to know in RotK is that they had beards and axes hehe, so really no idea how ours relate to them in that reagard;
    "... The new host that we had tidings of has come first, from over the River by way of Andros, it is said. They are strong: battalions of Orcs of the Eye, and countless companies of Men of a new sort that we have not met before. Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come, we deem. ..."
    - Ingold, RotK; The Siege of Gondor
    On a more general note, the 2nd Age in many regards seems to me a high point while the 3d is an Age of struggle and much in decline. After Sauron disappeared the Easterlings seems to suffered wars and strife against each other, forcing migrations westward
    More ominous were rumours from the further East: the Wild Men were restless. Former servants and worshippers of Sauron, they were released now from his tyranny, but not from the evil and darkness that he had set in their hearts. Cruel wars raged among them, from which some were withdrawing westward, with minds filled with hatred, regarding all that dwelt in the West as enemies to be slain and plundered.
    - earlier parts of the Third Age, Unfinished Tales
    That sounds quite destructive for the eastern civilizations to me. Also the West was much weaker in LotR than in this time game's time period, so even weaker Easterlings could be a greater threat to weaker defenders of the West.
    At end I'm not sure whether the East was stronger or weaker in the end of the Second compaired to the end of the Third, as societies and in power that concerns; technological improvment is not a Middle-earth expertice after all, hehe, so that may be equal - and assuming Sauron did not had his servants stick to iron while he tried to take over the world against Elves, Númenor and Dwarves with steel up till the point of and during the Last Alliance.
    Last edited by Ngugi; November 01, 2015 at 04:42 PM.

    Elrond and Gildor preview out 28th December





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  11. #1671

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Gratzy2 View Post
    if they are then they'd be "lesser" if you know what i mean, as this is in the 2nd age
    Lesser? How so? Is not like we have any indication that the 3rd Age Easterlings were any greater than their 2nd Age ancestors, as Ngugi rightly points out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    We'll have wicked axes in sturdy hands represented indeed.
    They are avilable through the Haerhûn [Far East] "tribe" buildings I might spoil, known as the Haerhûn Warriors
    And the beards! Don't forget the magnificent beards! After all, if you get your beard compared to a dwarven one, you must be doing something right .

  12. #1672
    Gratzy2's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Bercor View Post
    Lesser? How so? Is not like we have any indication that the 3rd Age Easterlings were any greater than their 2nd Age ancestors, as Ngugi rightly points out.
    .
    has nothing to do with being greater, armour and weaponry generally advances over time

    The remnant of the King's Men who survived in Middle-earth after the destruction of Númenor were called the Black Númenóreans since they worshipped Sauron and were "enamoured of evil knowledge". They worshipped Darkness, and believed that Melkor and Sauron were its most powerful servants. At the end of the Second Age two of their number, Herumor and Fuinur, became lords among the Haradrim, though what became of them is unknown.

  13. #1673
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Gratzy2 View Post
    has nothing to do with being greater, armour and weaponry generally advances over time
    Not really in Middle Earth. Except maybe in the First Age.
    The Third Age was an age of decline.

  14. #1674
    Tar-Falassion's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    That decline would have more to do with a cultural decline than a military one :
    The Third Age has its lot of technological advancements that were unheard of before - crossbows, explosive powder - and if you take into account PJ's movies (I don't ^^) you would also have "Black Arrow" ballistas, Dwarven weird anti-arrow giant bolts ...

    No, to me that decline you're speaking of is cultural in nature - Arnor has long fallen and Gondor is crumbling under Easterling, Haradrim and Orcish assaults. The last remnants of the high civilisation of the Númenóreans are slowly fading, and the remaining Elven havens are being forgotten. Middle Men culture is becoming predominant and Humans are falling back to their barbaric pre-Eldar contacts state ....

    On theother hand by the time of the Last Alliance Númenórean blood is very strong in the realms of the Elendili, and the Elves are still in control of large-spanning Kingdoms - Lindon has all the lands west of the Baranduin, and Thranduil's father rules over all of Grernwood. Númenórean culture is also still very présent in the Haradrim dominion, albeit in its corrupted variation.
    But even on a military point of view there was great might in thé Second Age - oft are praised the hollow steel-bows of the Númenóreans, and the forces of the Last Alliance were able to destroy Barad-Dûr. Plus in Middle-Earth the Elves are bound to diminish and fade, there fore they were arguably stronger during the Second Age than the Third.

  15. #1675

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Tar-Falassion View Post
    The Third Age has its lot of technological advancements that were unheard of before - crossbows, explosive powder - and if you take into account PJ's movies (I don't ^^) you would also have "Black Arrow" ballistas, Dwarven weird anti-arrow giant bolts ...
    There's no mention of crossbows in any of Tolkien's books, as far as I know. They're, like the other things you mention, an invention of PJ, which, of course, shouldn't be taken into account in any mod/submod that intends to follow the lore.

    The only thing I can see that could be considered a technological advancement would, indeed, be the explosive powder mentioned in TTT. Other than that, it could even be argued that has been a technological decline since the 1st Age, since, for example, the weapons forged in it by the Noldor are widely considered the best, and, as you said, the Numenóreans appeared to be more advanced than their descendants.

    I personally find this quote very intringuing:
    Quote Originally Posted by History of Middle-earth 9, The Drowning of Anadûnê, 338-9
    Yet it is said that even of those Númenóreans of old who had the straight vision there were some who did not comprehend this, and they were busy to contrive ships that should rise above the waters of the world and hold to the imagined seas. But they achieved only ships that would sail in the air of breath. And these ships, flying, came also to the lands of the new world, and to the east of the old world; and they reported that the world was round. Therefore many abandoned the Valar and put them out of their legends. But men of Middle-earth looked up with fear and wonder seeing the Númenóreans that descended out of the sky; and they took these mariners of the air to be gods, and some of the Númenóreans were content that this should be so.

    It's a pity that Tolkien didn't developed on it.

  16. #1676
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Bercor
    There's no mention of crossbows in any of Tolkien's books
    Correct.
    Beside the gunpowder, that very likely was brought in by the Istari and thus was presumably not a development in or 'of' Middle-earth, since it is Gandalf who use fireworks and Saruman who deploy a bomb, I can't recall any Third Age military invention, that at least thrumps earlier known gear. The exception being war chariots that are advanced constructs not known in earlier Ages, IIRC, but then again war chariots are [RL] historically a fairly crude and primitive military device (however cool they are; Kadesh FTW).

    They're, like the other things you mention, an invention of PJ, which, of course, shouldn't be taken into account in any mod/submod that intends to follow the lore.
    That's always a delicate path to thread. Some things that do not appear in Tolkien's writings, such as halberds, that no one wave the flag about, while pointing out crossbows. And considering we have ballistae in the game a crossbow is not far off, making it a matter of vision as much as lore.
    Not that we would add crossbows though, hehe

    It's a pity that Tolkien didn't developed on it.
    I'm for one do not concur on that hehe, even if being fond of steam punk it's just come of as off; and understand why he left the idea out ^^
    Last edited by Ngugi; November 02, 2015 at 02:51 PM.

    Elrond and Gildor preview out 28th December





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  17. #1677

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    That's always a delicate path to thread. Some things that do not appear in Tolkien's writings, such as halberds, that no one wave the flag about, while pointing out crossbows. And considering we have ballistae in the game a crossbow is not far off, making it a matter of vision as much as lore.
    I knew someone would have problems with that statement . What I meant is not that you can't add crossbows (or halberds for that matter) because it doesn't say they existed in the lore, but rather that the fact that Jackson included them in his films is no valid (or strong, if you prefer) argument to include them in a submod that has the lore as the main source of inspiration. If you want to add any type of equipment that is not mentioned in the books (and I'm afraid you'll have to ), be my guest, but make it so because the mod team decides that would make sense to have it in the mod they envision, not just because they were present in the films .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    I'm for one do not concur on that hehe, even if being fond of steam punk it's just come of as off; and understand why he left the idea out ^^
    Hehe, fair enough. I'm would be more interested in the mechanics of it than its implications, though.
    Last edited by Bercor; November 02, 2015 at 04:23 PM.

  18. #1678
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Quote Originally Posted by Bercor View Post
    I knew someone would have problems with that statement . What I meant is not that you can't add crossbows (or halberds for that matter) because it doesn't say they existed in the lore, but rather that the fact that Jackson included them in his films is no valid (or strong, if you prefer) argument to include them in a submod that as the lore as the main source of inspiration. If you want to add any type of equipement that is not mentioned in the books (and I'm afraid you'll have to ), be my guest, but make it so because the mod team decides that would make sense to have it in the mod they envision, not just because they were present in the films .
    Well put

    Elrond and Gildor preview out 28th December





    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI | Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection
    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon, Earl of Memory

  19. #1679

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    Cool submod!

  20. #1680

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - Settlements preview on page 80 released 26th September

    This is an awesome looking submod and I am eager to try it out, but one question how come you are using the vanilla map??

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