DCI: Last Alliance - Open Beta released, NEW: 10 October 2020 new patch released, contains Ents - Wolves - Spiders crashes fix! (and more)

**c.ryo** · October 03, 2016, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Shankbot de Bodemloze

This post hopefully offers an explanation to some of your questions.

Shankbot de Bodemloze
I see, thank you for information!

**Ngugi** · October 03, 2016, 11:43 AM

TY, Shank

It should cover much of it. As for settlement populations, that's a matter I've not looked into, but might before the end.

**c.ryo** · October 03, 2016, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ngugi

TY, Shank

It should cover much of it. As for settlement populations, that's a matter I've not looked into, but might before the end.

I cant recall which mod was it, however I can clearly remember back in the day playing earlier versions of Third Age with script which made population decrease when you recruit in that settlement. Technically that is both realistic and immersive, however not sure how it affects the turn times and AI ability to manage that.

**Ngugi** · October 03, 2016, 04:50 PM

Know which one you think of, but not the name. A quaint idea, but one that requires massive scripting, even in a basic form, not a mess we'll engage, hehe.
Ought to be smoother growth mechanics to manipulate to reach the intended end, though.

**orclover5** · October 03, 2016, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ngugi

Know which one you think of, but not the name. A quaint idea, but one that requires massive scripting, even in a basic form, not a mess we'll engage, hehe.
Ought to be smoother growth mechanics to manipulate to reach the intended end, though.

The population script isn't very large,

eclare_counter trained_unit_cat

monitor_event UnitTrained TrueCondition
set_counter trained_unit_cat 0
end_monitor

monitor_event UnitTrained TrainedUnitCategory infantry
set_counter trained_unit_cat 1
end_monitor

monitor_event UnitTrained TrainedUnitCategory cavalry
set_counter trained_unit_cat 2
end_monitor

monitor_event UnitTrained TrainedUnitCategory siege
set_counter trained_unit_cat 3

end_monitor

monitor_event UnitTrained SettlementName Grey-Mountains and FactionIsLocal

if I_CompareCounter trained_unit_cat = 1
console_command add_population Grey-Mountains -175
end_if
if I_CompareCounter trained_unit_cat = 2
console_command add_population Grey-Mountains -75
end_if
if I_CompareCounter trained_unit_cat = 3
console_command add_population Grey-Mountains -75
end_if
end_monitor

You would need to just do the red for each settlement. Pretty sure Withwnar gave me this script for my personal mod so you guys are probably aware of this.

**Ngugi** · October 04, 2016, 05:57 AM

Thanks mate, though yes, coding every settlement was what I had in mind hehe: not a trouble but a long labour. Also something that risk an effect on end turn times; at any rate, I'll prefere to find a solution limiting the growth to begin with.
Technically I do not mind that units do not draw of the population, since I always imagined that they're men mustered from across the held realm, just drilled into a unit at any given place.

**c.ryo** · October 04, 2016, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ngugi

Thanks mate, though yes, coding every settlement was what I had in mind hehe: not a trouble but a long labour. Also something that risk an effect on end turn times; at any rate, I'll prefere to find a solution limiting the growth to begin with.
Technically I do not mind that units do not draw of the population, since I always imagined that they're men mustered from across the held realm, just drilled into a unit at any given place.

Makes sense, however are there any plans to add additional clutter across the map? As an example - additional villages (as a form of resource there are villages in DaC, however very few of them sadly), or maybe remodeled version of forts? Then it makes perfect sense - populated region, lots of villages around, one major regional capital serving as a recruitment base. Actually thats how it was in middle ages, and I can imagine that will be not far from LotR universe concept.

**Ngugi** · October 04, 2016, 11:13 AM

Sort of, hehe. For a few years my great dream has been to replace most resources with villages-models, as in a sheep farm instead fo a sheep, on the strat map.
I first got sold in it seeing models made by Baltic Crusade; sadly, after getting the discontinued material they could provide, it proved the material was lost:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Well, I guess that once all else is done and released, I may learn the art of modelling myself ^^

**TechnSVN** · October 04, 2016, 01:28 PM

Those would be pretty awesome to have. Would make campaign map a lot more alive.

**c.ryo** · October 04, 2016, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ngugi

Sort of, hehe. For a few years my great dream has been to replace most resources with villages-models, as in a sheep farm instead fo a sheep, on the strat map.
I first got sold in it seeing models made by Baltic Crusade; sadly, after getting the discontinued material they could provide, it proved the material was lost:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Well, I guess that once all else is done and released, I may learn the art of modelling myself ^^

Damn, those would fit in perfectly!

**Earl of Memory** · October 04, 2016, 06:48 PM

I always wanted to see something like that in the strat map such as apple orchards instead of only an apple, or a cattle farm instead of only a cow (sort of); or motte and bailey castles instead of those small "forts", and villages for some areas...

**Kindjal83** · October 23, 2016, 09:54 AM

ing amazing work!! Absolutly superb! Just one thing is confusing me... Isn't Herumor also the famous Mouth of Sauron?! I know that the Dual Kinship of Harad are Fuinur and Herumor but, the King Herumor is the same Herumor who became the Mouth of Sauron?

It was implied that he came to Sauron's service when the Dark Tower rose...

If it is him, it would make him incredibly old...

**Ngugi** · October 23, 2016, 10:16 AM

Glad you fancy what you see

No, they are not the same man.
In LotR the Mouth of Sauron is a normla living man (so no 3000+ years for him, hehe, even if some tried to argue that he's ancient based on grave misunderstandings) and he speficly has no name:

The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: ‘I am the Mouth of Sauron.’
- RotK, The Black Gate Opens

and he is not given any name, in any other source.
If you read that his name was Herumor, then that is either fan fiction or commercial fiction [from a game or alike].

**orclover5** · October 29, 2016, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ngugi

Glad you fancy what you see

No, they are not the same man.
In LotR the Mouth of Sauron is a normla living man (so no 3000+ years for him, hehe, even if some tried to argue that he's ancient based on grave misunderstandings) and he speficly has no name:
and he is not given any name, in any other source.
If you read that his name was Herumor, then that is either fan fiction or commercial fiction [from a game or alike].

Tolkien uses such condensed language that I would imagine "for he himself had forgotten it" is an efficient way of saying he is really old, far older than the average human who tends to not forget ones name. I would imagine a really old human with dramatic memory problems is not the best person for the job of "mouth of Sauron". Sauron himself turns into a werewolf, creates rings that make immortal wraiths, there is plenty of evidence that he "could" increase the lives of his numenorian servants to unimaginable lengths. In fact I would think it logical, since the numenorians are themselves blessed by the west with special powers, and his only other trusty servants would be men of the east. Hell, he is more likely an istari, rather than an 85 year old man.

**Ngugi** · October 30, 2016, 04:34 AM

Tolkien more than often left us contradicting texts or large blanks. This is not one of those cases, what MoS's being concerns, it is just seems that many are disappointed but I do not think JRR would been concerned about that, hehe.
MoS is specified as "a living man". As for the rest of these theses, I will lable it creative but certainly not logical, ignoring and/or opposing the known facts while using unrelated arguments (sometimes not very founded in lore) to conjur a solution to percieved problems that aren't there to begin with. That is not a logical handling of the matter in my book, and would force us to reject Tolkien in favour of what others would prefere ahead of what Tolkien stated.
If you want to continue this discussion, it can always be elaborated upon, then let us go over to the Tolkien General Discussion-thread, as the MoS isn't the topic of this thread

**orclover5** · November 05, 2016, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ngugi

Tolkien more than often left us contradicting texts or large blanks. This is not one of those cases, what MoS's being concerns, it is just seems that many are disappointed but I do not think JRR would been concerned about that, hehe.
MoS is specified as "a living man". As for the rest of these theses, I will lable it creative but certainly not logical, ignoring and/or opposing the known facts while using unrelated arguments (sometimes not very founded in lore) to conjur a solution to percieved problems that aren't there to begin with. That is not a logical handling of the matter in my book, and would force us to reject Tolkien in favour of what others would prefere ahead of what Tolkien stated.
If you want to continue this discussion, it can always be elaborated upon, then let us go over to the Tolkien General Discussion-thread, as the MoS isn't the topic of this thread

Fair enough, I guess Gollum is a "living man" as well, though he be 500 years old, and his life extended unnaturally by the arts of Sauron. I think most of what JRR did and wrote, at least in his main works, was very purposeful, and subtle. You make a good case, but this is just another instance where one little used character, in one scene, opens up a world of ideas and possibilities, especially when tied to the Silmarillion. Discussion done.

**misteed** · November 10, 2016, 09:47 AM

Hello everyone, I'd like to share some 2d work that has been going on with the mod. You can guess the factions, also these pictures doesn't represent whole factions roster, meaning that there is one or two units (besides siege units) that are not showed here. Enjoy