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Thread: DCI: Last Alliance - Isildur and Anárion preview out (page 109) + Map preview video (page 111)

  1. #1801

    Icon3 Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Looking good for Rhûn! Here's a wildcard, should you ever want to capture the "all races fought on both sides but Elves" line about Dagorlad (and Orcish mercenaries avaliable for everyone close to the Dead Marshes to cover that gap?):

    Fallen Dwarf miniatures, by Anvil Industry + Preview



    Some quite neat Lotrish miniatures, designed with Tolkien's setting and Weta Workshop's treatment of it in mind. Some Fallen Dwarves available for Rhûn, or at the very least eastern/exotic dwarves would fill the Dagorlad quota. Consider it:

    4/7 great Dwarf tribes emigrated eastwards to the Orocarni mountain range, and given Sauron's influence over the eastern lands, they would at the very least be familiar with his agents. Their kings probably also received some of the seven rings to the Dwarf lords in their halls of stone. Since all races participated at both sides at Dagorlad, a logical step would be to assume that some far eastern Dwarves showed up on Sauron's side, whether as vassals, fanatics or mercenaries.

    One way to implement them would be as highly expensive mercenaries available in one or two of the easternmost regions of Rhûn, another to provide a special fallen dwarf barrack (excessively expensive to represent the supposed rarity of such troops in Sauron's host and the logistical difficulties in marching all that way west with large regiments) in some key city, perhaps close by that mountain range on the southwestern shore of Lake Rhûn. A new model file or two would of course be welcome, but easiest would be to reskin a couple of existing dwarven model files a tad to suit the Easterling look better. Bronze armour scales, red and black cloth/leather, perhaps?

    Finally, we know full well that these distant eastern dwarves were in some touch with western Middle-Earth. In the late third age, all seven Dwarf tribes sent armed forces to cleanse out the Misty Mountains in the brutal subterranean war between Dwarves and Orcs. Running with the more greyscale theme common for Tolkien's Dwarves in any Age, these exotic Dwarves wouldn't necessarily be evil, but could well have double loyalties to kin and Mordor liege in some cases. Having them as mercenaries in easternmost Rhûn would allow conquering Dwarf players to access their distant cousins and recruit them to the western cause instead of Sauron.

    Convinced?

    Also, would it be silly to make the starting territory of Rhûn smaller and more scattered? By the time of the Last Alliance, Sauron was quite fresh back in Mordor, and his hold on the southern and eastern lands might have become less than stone-stable in his absence when corrupting Númenor. To make the disparate tribes of the Easterlings, and mayhap also the Haradrim, appear as less a monolithic power bloc (even as a tribal confederacy) completely in the thrall of Sauron, how about letting the good Melkor-worshipping Mordor loyalists have to start their game with bloodshed as Khamûl and mortal human leaders bash heads together to unite the east? Then they can march on Gondor, and have troops already experienced and well accustomed to blood on their hometurf, as evident in the early gameplay.

    One should always imagine the dynamics of the peripheral parts of the Middle-Earth map and beyond to be lively untold chapters, and part of achieving that would be for Rhûn/Khand and maybe even Harad/Umbar (though there you would have an inherited Black Númenorean colonial empire in place at the homeland's fall into the abyss) to have and fight some at home and build empire before striking west at the Dark Lord's behest.

    Food for thought, ladies and gentlemen. Keep up the good work!

  2. #1802

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Quote Originally Posted by The Gondorian Knight View Post
    Fantastic preview there Mr. Ngugi , those masks on some elite units are just so badass, great detail on all overall, cant wait to play the mod keep up the great work!
    Thanks TGK

    Quote Originally Posted by Karak Norn Clansman View Post
    Some Fallen Dwarves available for Rhûn
    Dwarven subjects to the Dark Lord(s) is an established fact, even if the sources [as usual hehe] contradict each other concerning the scale of this and on what grounds (all from willing to unwilling service).
    In DCI there are the Orocarni Infantry and Orocarni Archers units, who are mercenaries avilabel in the eastern part of the map to the Dwarves. However, in cases of Invasions, Followers of Sauron-faction can recruit them as well, to add some extra punch to the fist that aims for the face of the West
    You can see them in the Kingdom o Khazad-dûm preview: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14124762

    Quote Originally Posted by Karak Norn Clansman View Post
    Also, would it be silly to make the starting territory of Rhûn smaller and more scattered? By the time of the Last Alliance, Sauron was quite fresh back in Mordor, and his hold on the southern and eastern lands might have become less than stone-stable in his absence when corrupting Númenor. To make the disparate tribes of the Easterlings, and mayhap also the Haradrim, appear as less a monolithic power bloc (even as a tribal confederacy) completely in the thrall of Sauron, how about letting the good Melkor-worshipping Mordor loyalists have to start their game with bloodshed as Khamûl and mortal human leaders bash heads together to unite the east? Then they can march on Gondor, and have troops already experienced and well accustomed to blood on their hometurf, as evident in the early gameplay.

    One should always imagine the dynamics of the peripheral parts of the Middle-Earth map and beyond to be lively untold chapters, and part of achieving that would be for Rhûn/Khand and maybe even Harad/Umbar (though there you would have an inherited Black Númenorean colonial empire in place at the homeland's fall into the abyss) to have and fight some at home and build empire before striking west at the Dark Lord's behest.

    Food for thought, ladies and gentlemen. Keep up the good work!
    You're on the right track here, and while I will not spoil content by going into details, I can tell these concerns have been taken into account when designing both start and features, of both active and passive character.
    What concern the geographic boundries, the peoples in the areas so close to Mordor likly were back under Sauron's dominon and thus we will not change it for Rhun; however yes, we have good indications his influence in the uncharted far East was not as good as earlier, and that some opposition faced him there, limiting the forces the Dark lord could muster against the West.

    In the part of Harad that we see on the map is all Near Harad, and the same logic apply. Not all settlements begin in the hands of the faction however (as seen in the map preview), because that represent a Black Númenórean (Adûnâim) dominion, and as such only indirectly the Haradrim themselves, and a fact is that the Haradrim may obey and serve, but they surely hate the Adûnâim as much as they hate the Dúnedain of the West, hehe.

    Thanks

    Isildur and Anárion preview out



    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
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    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
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  3. #1803

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Love the court system and the wide variety of units! i always loved Rhun because they had the most 'professional' of the evil rosters and this is even better with the forced choice of different camps.

  4. #1804

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Excellent! Bloody excellent. Besides, I've got to commend you guys for a very well thought-out mod complete with lovely lore tidbits and fitting new unit skins. Love the Dwarven unit roster. It's all so rich I didn't even miss Dwarven crossbows (a logical next step without stepping into gunpowder heresy, given their crafts affinity and setting them apart from Elves, and one of my all-time fantasy favourites). Now that's something of a feat...

    Besides, is the eastern Dwarven influence on Men visavi the Western Elven one explicitly stated in some of Tolkien writings? Just curious. Whether or not it is, I still buy it wholesale as a logical piece of the Lotr jigsaw.

    Hm, wouldn't it just be best for the Total War studio to cash in on the ongoing Lotr mod community they have, get some licenses, hire some of you hardcore modders a little while and release a Total Lotr game? Shouldn't be too hard after the more excessive and code-demanding setting of Warhammer has been fleshed out for the game engine.

  5. #1805
    Shankbot de Bodemloze's Avatar From the Writers Study!
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Thanks Shankbot!
    Yes, the Camps/Courts add an interesting strategic level to the gameplay.
    Shall you build Khand Courts to get a big Law bonus to keep the new settlement in line, and get the heavy Infantry and skilled Marksmen?
    Or the Haerhun Court to utilize the rich resources of the region, and get quick access to axemen to fight heavy armoured enemies like the Dwarves, and aim to get the heavy Lancers?
    Or shall you build Balchoth Courts to increase the growth rate of the settlement, and get weaker units than from the other "tribes", but in greater numbers?
    So...much..choice...
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  6. #1806

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Quote Originally Posted by IBSXYPNTS View Post
    Love the court system and the wide variety of units! i always loved Rhun because they had the most 'professional' of the evil rosters and this is even better with the forced choice of different camps.
    We hoped the camps would improve the fun, and so far felt it worked out ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Karak Norn Clansman View Post
    Excellent! Bloody excellent. Besides, I've got to commend you guys for a very well thought-out mod complete with lovely lore tidbits and fitting new unit skins. Love the Dwarven unit roster. It's all so rich I didn't even miss Dwarven crossbows (a logical next step without stepping into gunpowder heresy, given their crafts affinity and setting them apart from Elves, and one of my all-time fantasy favourites). Now that's something of a feat...

    Besides, is the eastern Dwarven influence on Men visavi the Western Elven one explicitly stated in some of Tolkien writings? Just curious. Whether or not it is, I still buy it wholesale as a logical piece of the Lotr jigsaw.

    Hm, wouldn't it just be best for the Total War studio to cash in on the ongoing Lotr mod community they have, get some licenses, hire some of you hardcore modders a little while and release a Total Lotr game? Shouldn't be too hard after the more excessive and code-demanding setting of Warhammer has been fleshed out for the game engine.
    Crossbows been a controversy since the game came hehe; in a game with Isengard I understand its in, even if Tolkien never mentioned them, due to the films, and then it is perfectly reasonable Dwarves could have them too. As we do not have Isengard, we instantly took them out however On a side note the weapon is not so specific to the High and Late Middle Ages as folks tend to think, but that's academical hehe.
    The Dwarven archers can hit little more than a barn haha (as the Dwarves in the Hobbit), but luckily they often face Goblins who come in hordes. Their advantages are that they have good armour and axes, and thus are greatful to have on walls for example, and that they, as the vision goes are being infantrymen who got a wooden shortbow handed to them more or less, are avilable from the Barracks. They do not require, and Dwarevs can not even build, Archeries.
    The Orocarni Archers on the other hand have decent aim and good range and damage, since they use composit bows, such as we have an example of in use:
    Then Thorin seized a bow of horn and shot an arrow at the speaker.
    - The Hobbit

    There are references here and there. Two examples:
    In ancient days the Naugrim dwelt in many mountains of Middle-earth, and there they met mortal Men (they say) long ere the Eldar knew them; whence it comes that of the tongues of the Easterlings many show kinship with Dwarf-speech rather than with the speeches of the Elves.
    - HoME 11: Of the Naugrim and the Edain

    It is told that at this time the Swarthy Men came first into Beleriand. Some were already secretly under the dominion of Morgoth, and came at his call; but not all, for the rumour of Beleriand, of its lands and waters, of its wars and riches, went now far and wide, and the wandering feet of Men were ever set westward in those days. ... Their houses were many, and some had greater liking for the Dwarves of the mountains than for the Elves.
    - Silmarillion; Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin

    Would been lovely, but I bet that if they could had solved that deal, they would already, if so only to cash in haha. Sad but true!
    Last edited by Ngugi; April 13, 2016 at 04:46 PM.

    Isildur and Anárion preview out



    DCI: Last Alliance
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    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
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    The Sundering
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    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon

  7. #1807

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Lovely stuff.

  8. #1808

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Quote Originally Posted by Shankbot de Bodemloze View Post
    So...much..choice...
    Aye, decisions decisions! ^^



    Quote Originally Posted by Bercor View Post
    Lovely stuff.
    Thanks mate

    Isildur and Anárion preview out



    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
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    The Sundering
    - a M2 Warhammer Total War experience


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  9. #1809
    BarnicleBill1's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    This has me very excited to see gow Harad turns out!

    Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

  10. #1810

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    You are all very kind! Thanks for your support.
    DCI: Last Alliance
    Unit maker

  11. #1811
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Were the Dwarves not created to be immune to evil corruption?

  12. #1812

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    A fair question. They could not be dominated and controlled á la Men or Elves [through a Ring, turning them to enslaved spirits]; it may reasonably be suspected this strain is a reason they were never made into Orcs either.
    And all those rings that he governed he perverted, the more easily since he had a part in their making, and they were accursed, and they betrayed in the end all those that used them. The Dwarves indeed proved tough and hard to tame; they ill endure the domination of others, and the thoughts of their hearts are hard to fathom, nor can they be turned to shadows.
    - Silmarillion; Of the Rings...
    Yet to be evil or not is a matter of choice that any sentient individual, a.k.a moral agent, has to make, and is nothing you can be immune against, with less than being a souless existance. As Elrond said: "For nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so." Valar, Maiar, Elves, Men and Dwarves, neither are evil by default but can all become evil due to their actions and intents. As is often the case with Elves so it is sometimes with Dwarves, that people do not like the notion the peoples they like can be evil, so it's usually ignored and forgotten, to the point that some fans argue they can not be evil, which is in opposition to the world JRR present us, hehe.
    For the purpose of analysis, there is one quote that they could not be evil, but Tolkien replaced it with the one in Appendix F (see below), and it is obsolete:
    But they are not and were not ever among the workers of wilful evil in the world nor servants of the Enemy, whatever the tales of Men may later have said of them;
    - HoME-12, The Appendix on Languages
    Indeed, Dwarves who taken the dark path are an established feature of the world:
    ...retentive of the memory of injuries (and of benefits), lovers of stone, of gems, of things that take shape under the hands of the craftsmen rather than things that live by their own life. But are not evil by nature, and few ever served the Enemy of free will, whatever the tales of Men alleged.
    - (what is few, when we talk about an entire race?), Appendix F

    [Goblins] did not hate dwarves especially, no more than they hated everybody and everything, and particularly the orderly and prosperous; in some parts wicked dwarves had even made alliances with them.
    - The Hobbit; Over Hill and Under Hill

    ...Dagorlad, the Battle Plain, which lies before the gate of the Black Land. All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only.... Of the Dwarves few fought upon either side;
    - Silmarillion; Of the Rings...


    [The Northmen] were brave and loyal folk, truehearted, haters of Morgoth and his servants; and at first had regarded the Dwarves askance, fearing that they were under the Shadow (as they said).(28)

    28. For they had met some far to the East who were of evil mind.
    [This was a later pencilled note. On the previous page of the typescript my father wrote at the same time, without indication of its reference to the text but perhaps arising from the mention (p. 301) of the awakening of the eastern kindreds of the Dwarves: 'Alas, it seems probable that (as Men did later) the Dwarves of the far eastern mansions (and some of the nearer ones?) came under the Shadow of Morgoth and turned to evil.']
    - HoME 12; Of Dwarevs and Men + Notes
    But we should not, in the cases we deal with Dwarves who by free will do serve Dark Lords expect them to be forcefully corrupted, such as the Rings intended to do, I argue;
    It is likely they were lured cunningly, their weaknesses exploited and encouraged by gifts and lies; just as how Melkor fell to his own desires and lured Maiar to him long ago; or how Sauron did not made the Númenóreans corrupted, getting under the Shadow they had already managed perfectly fine themselves, he just paved the way, with false promises about eternal life and lies about Illuvatar, to see the Númenóreans willingly walk into Hell with a passion.
    In the Dwarves case I would assume greed [that is their main weakness, just as pride is the Elves], or matters concerning injuries (percieved or real), was used to give them a 'nudge out of the door'.
    They are a tough, thrawn race for the most part, secretive, laborious, retentive of the memory of injuries (and of benefits), lovers of stone, of gems, of things that take shape under the hands of the craftsmen rather than things that live by their own life.
    - Appendix F

    They used their rings only for the getting of wealth; but wrath and an over-mastering greed of gold were kindled in their hearts, of which evil enough after came to the profit of Sauron.
    - Silmarillion; Of the Rings...
    That, or through promises of coockies.


    ~~~


    I missed to post the upgraded Haerhûn Axemen earlier, they have been added to the preview but for those who might not see that otherwise, here they are too:

    Last edited by Ngugi; April 14, 2016 at 08:34 AM.

    Isildur and Anárion preview out



    DCI: Last Alliance
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    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
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    The Sundering
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  13. #1813

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Most interesting. Exhaustive and helpful explanation, as usual, Ngugi. With Lotr dwarves it's easy to see where Warhammer dwarfs' strong theme of grudges came from.

    More childishly, I'd propose that Dwarves are too tough, hard-bitten and outright bloody stubborn to choose any one particular side than their own, especially in a cosmic black 'n' white clash of good and evil involving flowery elves and dark lords of doom. With modern expressions one could say they're too badass to stick to any one universal cause. If provoked and enraged, they'll strike out on their entirely own path of fell deeds, and all others be damned to hell and back, whether they be Vala or Dark Lord or Elf or Orc. Just like Fëanor!
    Last edited by Karak Norn Clansman; April 14, 2016 at 03:12 PM.

  14. #1814

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Excellent preview! I'm really fond of the various designs created for Easterlings' tribes.

    I like the Axemen, a straight reference to the novel :p

  15. #1815

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Excelent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    For now the Rhûn Confederacy if my favourite faction witout doubt!



  16. #1816

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Quote Originally Posted by Karak Norn Clansman View Post
    Most interesting. Exhaustive and helpful explanation, as usual, Ngugi.
    Glad to be of service

    Quote Originally Posted by Madril View Post
    Excellent preview! I'm really fond of the various designs created for Easterlings' tribes.

    I like the Axemen, a straight reference to the novel :p
    Thank you from the team

    We always hold lore as a guiding light; sometimes it allow us to go close in its footsteps ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Rampante-Cid View Post
    Excelent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    For now the Rhûn Confederacy if my favourite faction witout doubt!
    May you see the enemies of Sauron be trampled by the glorious hosts of Rhûn!

    Last edited by Ngugi; April 15, 2016 at 02:03 PM.

    Isildur and Anárion preview out



    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection

    The Sundering
    - a M2 Warhammer Total War experience


    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon

  17. #1817

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Thank you Ngugi and your team

    Is there a possibility to turn Rhun into a neutral faction if Sauron got defeated?

  18. #1818

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    No, they will not. On one haand frankly because that would be to much of a work; with need for complicated scripts and events, all units who has to be coded in twice, consequences for buildings, ancillaries and traits etc. We desire to get the game out this year after all ^^
    And on the other hand because of expected consequences, from lore, of such a situation. The affiliation among their elites and veterans, as well as masses, to the values and sort of life they had followed for generations they presumably would not for long leave behind, unless forcefully encouraged by outside influences. As was seen early in the Third Age, after Sauron had fallen once, in this mod's war
    More ominous were rumours from the further East: the Wild Men were restless. Former servants and worshippers of Sauron, they were released now from his tyranny, but not from the evil and darkness that he had set in their hearts. Cruel wars raged among them, from which some were withdrawing westward, with minds filled with hatred, regarding all that dwelt in the West as enemies to be slain and plundered.- Unfinished Tales
    Especially as we seen what happend when Sauron indeed was defeated. Many, but not all, tried to get out of there, and back in Rhûn many would keep acting in Sauron's spirit also afterwards:
    But the Men of Rhûn and of Harad, Easterling and Southron, saw the ruin of their war and the great majesty and glory of the Captains of the West. And those that were deepest and longest in evil servitude, hating the West, and yet were men proud and bold, in their turn now gathered themselves for a last stand of desperate battle. But the most part fled eastward as they could; and some cast their weapons down and sued for mercy.- RotK


    ... though Sauron had passed, the hatreds and evils that he bred had not died, and the King of the West had many enemies to subdue before the White Tree could grow in peace. And wherever King Elessar went with war King Éomer went with him; and beyond the Sea of Rhûn ... the thunder of the cavalry of the Mark was heard, and the White Horse upon Green flew in many winds until Éomer grew old.
    - Appendix A
    A player who want to breach with Sauron has to go the Excommunicated path, hehe.
    But the Rhunlendings and Haradrim I can respect, while in our next preview we will meet the real scum of the earth...

    Isildur and Anárion preview out



    DCI: Last Alliance
    - WIP Second Age mod
    | DCI: Tôl Acharn - mighty Dúnedain Counter Invasions |
    Additional Mercenary Minimod - more mercs; for TATW and DCI |Family Tree minimods - lore improvements | Remade Event Pictures - enhance cultures trough images |
    Favorite TATW compilation: Withwnars Submod Collection

    The Sundering
    - a M2 Warhammer Total War experience


    Patron of Mank, Kiliç Alì, FireFreak111, MIKEGOLF & Arachir Galudirithon

  19. #1819

    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    Mordor ruthless legions?

  20. #1820
    Boogie Knight's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: DCI: Last Alliance Total War - 13th April: preview of the Rhûn Confederacy is out

    These look incredible! Hyped for the charioteers and those heavily armoured Khand Marksmen especially. Awesome work!

    EDIT: Wrote Axemen, meant Marksmen.
    Last edited by Boogie Knight; April 15, 2016 at 03:02 PM.

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