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Thread: CA Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Cyberpunk View Post
    Steph's comment makes me worried too. A lot of what he's suggested are very big concerns. Porting content from previous games should be allowed- else it means the entire mod community in its current form has to start again from scratch.
    It has always been that way with Total War games, in fact it happens in most games. Technology changes, new things become possible, would you rather they just stuck with the same old tech so that we could reuse old files in new games? Doesn't that pretty much undermine the whole point of making a new game in the first place?

    Modders have always had to start over when a new game comes out, its just a part of modding in general not some great injustice.


  2. #82
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Asking them for porting mods is insane. That's up to us, we are the ones that have to adapt to the new programing they deem more suited in each game. As long they back us up with the info needed to do the modding we have to carry that weigh.
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  3. #83

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Hi

    Im fairly certain R2 will not be created with drawbacks from making it friendly to older mods/conversions/ports/skins/models etc. R2 will i hope be created with the newest/best tech to make it a beautiful, Lag Free, slow loading time, slow loading turn, game. If things like that are hindered because we are getting a mod friendly game im gonna stop using mods altogether in pure protest.

    I would rather have R2 in all its glory than flawed because of a minority (yes we are) is screaming for mods/modding.


    Regards, Fedual
    Last edited by Fedual; September 27, 2012 at 08:28 AM.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Radiso-FIN View Post
    Thanks for the report Mitch! Very interesting to read and nice to see you had a successful summit!

    Really can't wait to hear more about those "secret" modding tools.

    Official CA modding tips and tutorials

    Background info

    In May 2012, The Creative Assembly released TEd, the tool used internally to create battlefield environments in Total War: Shogun 2. In September 2012, CA also unveiled a brand new suite of tools: the Assembly Kit for Shogun 2.

    This kit includes the following:
    • DAVe database tool
    • Unit Editor for changing the look for units
    • Tooldatabuilder for unpacking
    • Campaign map reprocessing
    • Max export scripts for models
    • Example Max files for most model types
    • BoB processing tool, also capable of building mod packs
    • Documentation (see below)
    The Creative Assembly has also announced full Steam Workshop integration for Total War: Shogun 2, allowing users to create and upload their own Shogun 2 mods, or simply explore existing mods made by the community.

    Ultimately, this section of the Wiki will include tips and tutorials from The Creative Assembly which the modding community can use as a resource for learning to use these tools.

    We also hope to conduct polls on what questions the community would like answering, and ultimately build a thriving modding community through the wiki.

    We also have a community resources section where the community can share modding tips and tutorials they've created themselves.

    Documentation

  5. #85
    emotion_name's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    All good things, wonder what people are going to randomly demand on every thread and on facebook now considering "Mod tools" is covered, and so is "R2TW"!

    Glad to hear you made it there and back as well mitch, did you take your WRU guidebook with you incase of emergencies? (Im going to eurgamer on sunday and mine is packed ready)

    I also have to say, in your first pic, whoever has the 20 ounce Sports Direct Cup is my kind of guy - i need a bucket of coffee to keep me going into the small hours once i play TW and a standard cup just dont cut it, good to see im not alone!

  6. #86
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Asking them for porting mods is insane. That's up to us, we are the ones that have to adapt to the new programing they deem more suited in each game. As long they back us up with the info needed to do the modding we have to carry that weigh.
    I'm not asking them to port the game, I just want to know what is changed, and what is not, to see what is usable from what is already done, and what needs to be done again from scratch.
    This can determine what is the best plateform.

    If S2 or R2 gives more advantage and are not too limited for a given purpose, we can go for a total conversion. But if they are limitations because they are designed to work for a specific setting, then it means they are not the best tool for a total conversion. Period. Keep an other engine and eventualy wait for a MTW2, NTW2 or ETW2 to make a new version.

    The question is not really to know if we have to redo from scratch what we did. It's to do what was not necessary with another engine.

    For exemple, if I mod NTW, I could keep the ships as they are and modify only the uniform of Bavaria. I can make a Napoleonic mod that has nicer Bavarian uniforms, and go with the rest "smoothly".

    But if we want to make nice Bavarian uniform with S2 engine, then we need to redo ALL the factions, and also the ships, etc. A Napoleonic mod with Japanese ships will be weird, wouldn't it?

    So if we cannot import ships from NTW to S2 for instance, it's better to stick to NTW, and why not make a better version later if they make a NTW2, rather than wasting time to make a non working S2 port.

    It is a little too soon to know what can be done or not with the tools CA will provide.

  7. #87
    AngryTitusPullo's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Akaie View Post
    It doesn't seem to be deleted. I'll direct someone to it in the Q&S forum.

    One thing I am interested in is the Steam Workshop's file size limits. Skyrim has it locked off at 100mb which has seriously knocked out the Workshop's ability to host bigger projects. Is the same limit at play here?

    For example, I'd be happy to show my support by throwing up The Sekigahara Campaign, but it is well over 100mb when uncompressed.
    100mb might be enough for Skyrim but even RTW mods are on average 300-400mb with 1gb for full conversion.

    Full conversion for S2 probably around 10-15gb easily I guess (if possible that is).


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  8. #88

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    We are always going to be changing how content is done from game to game as we change how we do unit models or the campaign map as we always want to do new things with them. Just like the change in unit model formats from Rome 1 to Medieval II.
    I understand that. And its a valid point. Just a tad disappointing since I would've loved to see some of the current mods retrofitted to a new engine.

    I'm not asking them to port the game, I just want to know what is changed, and what is not
    Pretty much what I was implying with my comment. I'm not expecting them to produce full blown ports of Empire, Nappy and Shogun. This is what 3rd party tools will no doubt be needed for. With any luck someone will be talented enough to produce some kind of conversion to the newer model format. But I get the suspicion nearly all of it's going to need to be redone from scratch.. kinda sucky but I understand why it has to happen.

    If things like that are hindered because we are getting a mod friendly game im gonna stop using mods altogether in pure protest.
    WHEN in the history of modding has this ever happened?... ...
    Last edited by Mr_Cyberpunk; September 27, 2012 at 08:58 AM.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I'm not asking them to port the game, I just want to know what is changed, and what is not
    You just want to know what more than a hundred people have been doing for about 4 years?
    I really don't think you grasp the complexity of what they're doing.

    Firstly, there is no proper internal documentation, so people would need to spend a lot of time looking at code or something to answer each specific question.
    Secondly, much of what they've produced has grown very organically, so to put it bluntly it's a mess pretty much, with a lot of "embedded knowledge" (read: in their heads) required.
    Thirdly, there is no direct child relation between the different projects; they are developed in parallel for a good amount of time, so you can't just go "diff <NTW_VERSION> <STW_VERSION>"; to reinforce that point: Rome II has been in development for 4 years now. And even if you could create a diff like this, it would be massive just because of the amount of manhours that have been put in there. It probably would take the time you'd need to recreate NTW in S2 to come up with the documentation you "just" request.

    And you ask them to invest that huge amount of effort just so you can decide whether to not buy their game?
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  10. #90

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Great news indeed , perhaps time for a american civil war mod .

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  11. #91

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by daniu View Post
    Rome II has been in development for 4 years now.
    Really? Didn't they say they started the development after Shogun 2?

  12. #92
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    No, they never had, even at the days of shogun, before release they where already working on Rome I, imagine that! They where developing Medieval I and Rome I by the time Shogun I was released. Then they released Medieval I and by the time they Released Rome I it had precisely 4 years in development.
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  13. #93
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective


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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    From their documentation, unit part folder documentation

    Hats/ (any slot folder)
    AustrianBearSkin/ Meshes and textures
    BelgicShako/ Meshes and textures ...


    They have based their doc on NTW example. I think it's not something that big to ask the community if the mesh and texture from NTW can be used in STW2 or if they used a completly different mechanism.
    Same for ships or equipment.
    I don't want all the tiny details. I want general information.

    Can unit meshes, textures, ships and equipment be reused from NTW in STW or did they change it significantly?

    I had the impression the concept of a community of modders was that some people who have already modded of the game could answer questions asked by others. It seems I was mistaken.

  15. #95

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    The mesh format did change between Napoleon and Shogun 2.
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  16. #96

    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    I had the impression the concept of a community of modders was that some people who have already modded of the game could answer questions asked by others. It seems I was mistaken.
    You especially seem to have the impression that the more obnoxious and obtrusive you get, the more likely you are to find people willing to help you.
    Again, you were mistaken.
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  17. #97
    Primergy's Avatar Protector of the Union
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    Great news indeed , perhaps time for a american civil war mod .

    there are 2.... the blue&grey and north&south

    but yes, I'm going to experimient with the game too see if it makes sense to switch...

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Lusted View Post
    The mesh format did change between Napoleon and Shogun 2.
    Thanks for this clear answer.

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Can unit meshes, textures, ships and equipment be reused from NTW in STW or did they change it significantly?
    Even if they can (which they aren't) you can't take stuff from one game and ported it to a different game and release it (as mods) for free.
    Last edited by AngryTitusPullo; September 27, 2012 at 09:59 AM.


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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: Modding Summit - Mitch's Perspective

    I suppose you meant "you can't"?

    Well if it was technically possible, that's the next issue I would have raised.

    Craig basically said earlier that with the tools, we could make a new Napoleonic mod with S2 engine (underlying idea: there is no need of tools for ETW/NTW).

    However, there are many constraints and side issues like this one that can make it not practical, and I think it's probably not a reallistic option without a HUGE investment in time, especially since we can already mod ETW/NTW, and some mods are, if not finalized, already well forward and with lots of material in it.

    The benefits vs cost of a port to STW2 is far from obvious.

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