Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43

Thread: Indian States - Information & Discussion

  1. #1
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Indian States - Information & Discussion

    INDIAN STATES



    Lead Developers



    wangrin

    with significant Historical Research by

    162eRl



    Indian States are composed of minor factions from India :


    • Mysore
    • Rajput
    • Nizam of Hyderabad
    • Nawab of Arcot or Nawab of the Carnatic

    Maps of India


    Maps :

    1. 2. 3. 4.

    1. Map of Mysore in 1704 from 'Historical Atlas of India'
    2. Map of Mysore in 1751 from 'Historical Atlas of India'
    3. Map to illustrate the Mysore Wars 1784
    4. Map of India in 1795 from 'Historical Atlas of India'

    Last edited by PikeStance; November 20, 2014 at 09:16 PM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  2. #2
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    MYSORE


    Lead Developers
    To be placed here

    Unit List
    To be placed here

    Building Chain
    Building Chain

    Technology Tree
    Technology Tree

    Graphics Development
    Graphics Development


    Armies of the Wars in India: Part IV The Mysoreans

    History (Mysorean Wars)
    MYSOREAN WARS 1st Mysore War
    Through his political intrigues against the Nawab of the Carnatic, Haider Ali found himself at war with the British. When Haider and his ally, the Moghul Emperor's Viceroy of the Deccan attempted to invade the Carnatic with 70,000 men they were met by a British force of 6,800 men under Colonel Smith at Changama in August 1767. Smith managed to repulse the Indians, but due to lack of food supplies he was forced to fall back on Trinomalee. Here Smith, now reinforced, attacked Haider's positions and forced him to retreat with a loss of 4,000 men for just 115 British.
    Haider Ali specialised in mobile tactics, and with some quick marching he reached Madras in 84 hours (having covered a distance of 130 miles) where he was able to threaten the British governor there into making peace terms.

    2nd Mysore War.
    The war was sparked off by British attacks on French possessions in India upon the intervention of the French on the side of the rebels in the American War of Independence. When the territory of Mahé was taken by the British, Haider Ali felt that his Malabar Coast conquests were threatened. He consequently threw in his lot with the French and declared war on Britain.
    In the war the British suffered an early disaster when Colonel Baillie's column consisting of 400 Europeans and 3,400 sepoys was wiped out by the Mysorean army of 55,000 infantry, 28,000 cavalry, 7,000 rocketeers and 400 French cavalry, at Perambakam on the 10th September 1780. The following year Haider's army suffered defeats at Pollilur (27th August), Sholinghur (27th September) and at the fall of Negapatam (12th November). In 1782 Tipu almost destroyed another column led by Colonel Baillie of 1,600 men at Coleroon on 18th February. In the battle every British officer was killed or wounded and only one third of the column effected an escape.
    Haider Ali himself died shortly after a drawn battle with the veteran British commander Eyre Coote at Arni in June 1782. Tipu Sultan the celebrated 'Tiger of Mysore' was proclaimed the new ruler. In his father's turban Tipu found a note advising him to keep the peace with the British as he (Haider Ali) had gained nothing from war with them.
    In that same year, during March, a French fleet of 15 ships under Admiral Pierre de Suffren landed 3,000 French troops at Cuddalore. These were supplemented by a further 3,000 sepoys. In June the French were attacked by the Madras army under General Stuart. Tipu aided the French with 3,000 infantry and 2,000 cavalry.
    He attempted to capture Mangalore but had to lift the siege when the French contingent commanded by M. de Cossigny was withdrawn upon learning of the Treaty of Versailles which brought about the end of the War of Independence. An agreement to supply the garrison with victuals was not honoured by Tipu and despite the ongoing peace treaty negotiations between the British and Mysore, Tipu renewed the siege. The garrison surrendered on the 30th January 1784, cut to half strength by starvation and scurvy. Peace terms were eventually agreed upon by Tipu and the Madras Governor, Lord Macartney, on the 11th March.

    3rd Mysore War
    The British wanted to break the Mysorean hold on the Malabar coastal strip. Tipu's general, Hussein Ali, with 9,000 men met the British force at Calicut on 10th December 1790. The British force consisted of 600 Europeans and 1,900 sepoys under Colonel Hartley who attacked the Mysoreans and lost only 52 men against Mysorean losses of 1,000 plus 900 prisoners. Tipu's main army still posed a threat and was difficult to bring to battle in the field. Unable to bring Tipu to bay, the British commander, General Cornwallis (from the American Revolutionary War), moved on the important town of Bangalore. The town itself was captured on 7th March 1791, with a loss of 130 British and 2,000 Mysoreans. The adjoining fort was finally carried on 21st March by 36th and 72nd Foot. Cornwallis was later joined by 10,000 horse of the Nizam of Hyderabad, and on 3rd May marched for Tipu's capital at Seringapatam. Meanwhile another British column of nine batta-lions under General Abercrombie entered Mysore via Coorg to the west of Seringapatam. Cornwallis approached Tipu's capital from the south but found the river Cauvery there unfordable. Tipu's forces were drawn up in strong positions nine miles south of the capital at Arikera. Following an abortive night march around Tipu's flank to the north, the Mysoreans were driven back the following morning into Seringapatam by a flank attack of five battalions led by Colonel Maxwell. Mysorean casualties were around 2,000 and those of the British were 500. Unfortunately it was now too late in the season to undertake a major siege and Cornwallis was compelled to destroy his siege train and retire to Bangalore, whilst Abercrombie retired to Bombay.
    The following year Cornwallis resumed the campaign against Seringapatam. Tipu defended his capital with 40,000 infantry, 5,000 cavalry, 100 field guns and 300 garrison pieces. Cornwallis brought against him 6,000 Europeans, 16,000 sepoys, 46 field guns, 4 howitzers, 36 mortars and siege guns, 18,000 of the Nizam's horse and 12,000 Mahrattas under Han Punt. Abercrombie's force increased the total with 3,000 Europeans, 6,000 sepoys and 14 guns. A total force of 31,000 trained infantry and cavalry plus 30,000 Indian irregular horse. Many of the latter were unreliable however. The siege lasted from 5th to 16th February and Tipu was defeated. Mysorean losses were 4,000 men and 86 guns. British losses were 35 men killed and wounded. Tipu had to pay large indemnities and release two of his sons as hostages, in addition to giving the British suzerainty over the territories of Malabar, Coorg and south-east Mysore.

    4th Mysore War
    Tipu's French alignment and suspected alliance with the Directory's emerging leader made the British wary of the Mysoreans. Indeed a letter was sent to Tipu from Napoleon Bonaparte which made definite friendly overtures. When the French landed in Egypt, Tipu hoped for Napoleon's aid to fight the British in India. The newly installed British Governor-General, Richard Wellesley, Lord Mornington (Wellington's eldest brother), decided to crush Tipu before the French might intervene. On 3rd March 1799, two British columns were sent to capture Tipu's capital, Seringapatam. From the east, the Madras Presiden-cy sent General Harris with 21,000 men. He was joined by 4,000 of the Nizam's French-trained Europeans formerly commanded by Raymond, 6,000 English trained sepoys and 6,000 of the Nizam's best horse. This latter contingent was commanded by Colonel Arthur Wellesley (later Duke of Wellington) who was appointed over the head of a senior British officer by Mir Alam, the Nizam's general in chief. Wellesley also added his own regiment, the 33rd Foot. to the column. From the west the Bombay Residency despatched General Stuart with an army of 6,000 men.
    On 6th March 12,000 Mysoreans attacked Stuart's vanguard which was commanded by Lt. Colonel Montresor, at Sidassir. The Mysoreans were driven off, with their leader Mohammed Raza and 2,000 men as casualties. Montresor lost only 143 men. Harris's column too met opposition when they were intercepted at Malavelly on 27th March. The British column was caught debouching from thick jungle but managed to beat off the Mysore army of 6,000 men. One thousand Mysoreans were casualties and British losses were once again only slight.
    By 6th April Harris was before Seringapatam. Since the last siege Tipu had strengthened the fortifications of his capital on the eastern face only. On the 14th April Stuart's force arrived in position north of the capital and on 22nd April his positions there were fiercely attacked by 6,000 Mysorean infantry, but they were repulsed with heavy losses. By 2nd May the British had breached the north-west wall with their heavy batteries. On the 4th May 2,500 Europeans and 1,800 sepoys led by General Baird (himself a former inmate of Seringapatam's dungeon), stormed the breach. The defenders were routed and in the course of the fighting Tipu Sultan met his fate. His body was later discovered under a pile of Mysorean dead. He had died fighting. Tipu passed into legend and became a popular hero during the Victorian era. Mysorean losses amounted to 6,000, while British casualties were 1,464. The Mysoreans had been finally subjugated.

    Armies of the Wars in India: Part IV The Mysoreans by Paul D. Stevenson


    MYSOREAN ARMY The Mysorean Army - Origins
    The Mysorean state in southern India grew into one of the most powerful states in the sub-continent during the eighteenth century. For this reason Mysore was particularly menacing to British interests, especially in view of her alignment with the French. The man who brought Mysore to the political fore in India was a common soldier called Haider Ali. He could neither read nor write, but he had a flair for politics and a forceful personality. He established a lasting reputation for ruthlessness and acts of cruelty to prisoners of war. His son and heir Tipu Sultan (Tipoo Sahib), was far more cultured and displayed mercy to his captives on occasion, but he was just as ruthless as his father. The state of Mysore fought four separate wars against the British. The Mysoreans are notable in that they inflicted the worst disaster to befall British arms to that date.

    Mysore Regulars
    Towards the end of Haider's reign the numbers of regular troops were increased because it was found that the irregulars were no match for the British troops. Against neighbouring states the Mysorean army was invincible and much territory was brought under Mysorean control because of her well trained army. Because of her expansionist policies Mysore became a natural enemy of the rapidly expanding British. Both Haider and Tipu looked to the French for support and the French were only too willing to help in order to restore their own position in India. The Mysore army was trained in the French manner, but had it's own peculiar organisation.
    The regulars were originally organised into cushoons of 1,500 men. There were two battalion-sized units called risalas in a cushoon. The risalas were further sub-divided into jugs or companies. Cushoons, risalas and jugs were commanded by siphadars, risaldars and juqdars respectively. A subaltern officer called a sarayasaqchi was appointed to each battalion. He had wide powers of inspection and it was his job to report to the higher command the state of morale and discipline of his risala. In 1790 the senior formation became known as a cutchery of which there were four for each of cavalry and infantry. Cavalry cutcheries were divided into five mokums and infantry cutcheries were of six cushoons (regiments). The command of the cutcheries was given to an officer called a bakaski while infantry commanders were known as sipahadars and cavalry commanders as mokumdars.
    The regular troops were well equipped and wore uniforms of mainly white in Haider's reign. Tipu's cult animal was the tiger, hence his sobriquet 'Tiger of Mysore' and he had many items made for him in the form of tigers. A life-size model of a mechanical tiger mauling a European exists, along with a mortar cast in a tiger's form, taken at Seringapatam by Harris. Tipu extended his tiger obsession to clothing his troops in purple tunics called bubris which were embroidered with a tiger pattern. The tunic was worn with or without short white trousers. The infantry were armed with the India pattern Tower musket and each cushoon had it's own complement of artillery, one to five heavy field guns. Most of the Mysorean artillery pieces were cast at Mysore under the supervi-sion of Frenchmen. The cavalry were called askars or stable horse but they were no match for the regular British light dragoons who were then beginning to make their appearance in India.

    Irregulars
    The majority of the Mysore army were irregular troops. Haider relied mainly on cavalry raised on the silhadar principle of each man providing his own arms and mount in return for adjusted wages. Because they did not receive regular pay and because they were not controlled directly by the state, the irregular troops pillaged far and wide, devastating large tracts of the countryside wherever they moved, particularly during Tipu's incursions into the Carnatic and Malabar coastal regions. The irregular cavalry were natural warriors and adept with their matchlocks, which they used as hunters.
    Irregular foot troops were often locally called up levies often fighting only for plunder. Most irregulars were armed with matchlock muskets or bows and arrows. Rocket troops were part of the irregular contingent. The missiles were extremely popular with Mysorean armies and could make up about 10% of the total army strength. According to the Frenchman de la Tour, the Mysorean rockets could carry up to 1,000 yards. The rockets were at their most effective when used in a concentrated barrage so that they could not be ducked. They were particularly useful against cavalry to frighten the horses. It was a rocket which contributed to Baillie's defeat by setting fire to one of his ammunition wagons. A method of execution which amused the brutal Mysorean mind was to strap rockets about the person of the victim and ignite the fuses.
    Another auxiliary arm of the Mysorean army was the Ahmadi Corps of 10,000 men. Like the Turkish Janissaries, they were Christian slaves. Most of them came from the Malabar territory and having been forced into Mysorean service they were circumcised and converted to Moslems. One of Tipu's methods of consolidating his territorial gains was to deport whole populations from their native territory and repopulate the area with Mysoreans. This he did with Coorg in 1786 and with Travancore in 1788. The Ahmadi Corps was poorly equipped and, as it turned out, more a liability than an asset. Tipu foolishly placed them in the centre of his line at the first siege of Seringapatam and they deserted wholesale.

    The French Corps
    Henri de la Sale, who adopted the pseudonym 'Lally' from the one time French Governor Lally Tohlendal, commanded a force of around 400 Frenchmen, mainly from the Mahé settlement. The French contingent provided the Mysore princes with a good, reliable nucleus upon which to build their armies. The Frenchmen fought to protect their own interests against the expanding British rule and were taken under the wing of Haider.
    Originally a major in the French Swiss corps in 1775, Lally was captured by the British but was shortly exchanged. After short spells with Casalat Jung's French corps and with the Nizam of Hyderabad, Lally took service with Haider Au and also served under Tipu Sultan. He gave invaluable service to his masters.
    Lally had 400 men of his corps at Perambakam and had not the French officers intervened, the British prisoners would have been massacred. Lally showed mercy to these prisoners, sending them proper medical attention, new clothes and food. In 1782 at the battle of Coleroon, Lally's 400 cavalry were instrumental in the defeat of Colonel Braithwaite's force when they delivered an irresistible charge. Lally died of a severe wound received at Cheynur in 1790. His corps lived on and at Seringapatam 360 men held the Lally redoubt in 1792. At 2nd Seringapatam 450 Frenchmen again served with Tipu's army.

    Army Composition and Other Notes
    For the invasion of the Carnatic in 1780 Haider's army numbered 10,000 men. In 1782 the army was 88,000 strong. In late 1790 the Mysore army numbered 131,000, viz. 3,000 regular and 5,000 irregular cavalry, 48,000 regular and 65,000 irregular infantry plus 10,000 asid ilahis (POW battalions). At Seringapatam in 1792 Tipu had 40,000 infantry and 5,000 cavalry (2,000 of the latter were dismounted askars), plus 10,000 men of the Ahmadi Corps. The artillery consisted of 100 field guns and 300 garrison pieces. At Seringapatam Tipu's army consisted of 22,000 infantry and 14,000 cavalry.
    The Mysore bullocks were supposed to be the best in India. Wellesley used large quantities of these to supply his own army during the Mahratta War. He also used the Mysorean-style wicker boats, capable of carrying two men and light enough to be carried by one. Also worthy of note is the type of defences used by Mysorean armies in the field - these were enclosures of bound hedge made up with bamboo and thorn.

    Armies of the Wars in India: Part IV The Mysoreans by Paul D. Stevenson


    UNITS Silhadars : heavy cavalry
    Askars : regular cavalry - lancers
    French Corps : european cavalry (light ?)
    War Elephant :
    Royal Guards : elite infantry
    Risalas : regular infantry
    Ahmadis : irregular infantry - hand to hand
    Irregular foot 1 : irregular infantry - musket + hand to hand
    Irregular foot 2 : irregular infantry - bow + hand to hand
    Rocketeers :
    Field Artillery :
    Siege Artillery 1 : siege gun
    Siege artillery 2 : mortars


    PICTURES 1790 : Regular infantry, Silhadar

    Last edited by wangrin; October 18, 2015 at 04:54 AM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  3. #3
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    SIKH


    Lead Developers
    To be placed here

    Unit List
    To be placed here

    Building Chain
    Building Chain

    Technology Tree
    Technology Tree

    Graphics Development
    Graphics Development

    Last edited by wangrin; October 18, 2015 at 04:55 AM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  4. #4
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    RAJPUT


    Lead Developers
    To be placed here

    Unit List
    To be placed here

    Building Chain
    Building Chain

    Technology Tree
    Technology Tree

    Graphics Development
    Graphics Development



    PICTURES




    Last edited by wangrin; October 18, 2015 at 04:56 AM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  5. #5
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    NIZAM OF HYDERABAD





    Hyderabad History

    The city is more than 400 years old and is noted for its many mosques, temples, minarets, bazaars, and beautiful geography. It lies on the Deccan (Dakkan) plateau, 541 meters (1776 feet) above sea level, and sprawls over an area of 260 km² (100 mile²). A multitude of influences have shaped the character of the city. Its palaces and buildings, houses and tenements, gardens and streets have a history and an architectural individuality of their own. This land of 75 million people has an inimitable heritage dating back to times immemorial.

    The Rulers of Hyderabad

    The area around Hyderabad was once part of Ashoka's Empire in the 3rd century BC. Various Hindu kingdoms like the Kakatiyas ruled the area for many centuries, and the region was claimed by both Hindu and Muslim leaders until the late 14th century, when Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah consolidated power and established the fortress city of Golconda nearby. Hyderabad was founded by Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah on the Musi River five miles east of Golconda in 1591-92. Quli Qutb Shah also ordered the construction of the Char Minar, one of the most famous monuments in the city, in 1591. The Qutb Shahi dynasty founded and ruled the Kingdom of Golconda, one of the five kingdoms that emerged after the break up of the Bahmani Sultanate. All seven Qutb Shahi sultans were patrons of learning and were great builders. They contributed to the growth and development of Indo-Persian and Indo-Islamic literature and culture in Hyderabad. During the Qutb Shahi reign Golconda became one of the leading markets in the world for diamonds, pearls, steel, arms, and also printed fabric. In the 16th century, the city grew spontaneously to accommodate the surplus population of Golconda, which was the capital of the Qutb Shahi rulers.

    The Rulers of Charminar

    In 1687, the Golconda sultanate was conquered by the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, and Hyderabad became part of the Mughal Empire. As the empire weakened in the 18th century, provincial officials gained greater autonomy. In 1724, Asif Jah, who had already been granted the title Nizam al Mulk by the Mughal emperor, defeated a rival official to take control of Hyderabad province, and established his independence from the Mughals. His successors ruled as Nizams of Hyderabad. The rule of the seven Nizams saw the growth of Hyderabad both culturally and economically. Huge reservoirs, like the Nizam Sagar, Tungabadra, Osman Sagar, Himayat Sagar, and others were built. Survey work on Nagarjuna Sagar had also begun during this time. When the British and the French spread their hold over the country, the Nizam won their friendship without bequeathing his power. The title "Faithful Ally of the British Government" was bestowed on Nizam VII. The British stationed a Resident at Hyderabad, but the state continued to be ruled by the Nizam. Hyderabad, under the Nizams, was the largest princely state in India, with an area larger than England and Scotland put together. The State had its own currency, mint, railways, and postal system. There was no income tax.
    Soon after India gained independence, it forcefully annexed Hyderabad through Operation Polo, and became an Indian state. On November 1, 1956, the map of India was redrawn into linguistic states, and Hyderabad state was divided between Andhra Pradesh, Bombay state (present-day Maharashtra), and Mysore state (present-day Karnataka). Hyderabad and the surrounding area were added to Andhra Pradesh based on Telugu linguistic majority, and Hyderabad became the capital of the state.

    Source: http://www.thisismyindia.com/about_h...d-history.html

    Unit List
    To be placed here

    Building Chain
    Building Chain

    Technology Tree
    Technology Tree

    Graphics Development
    Graphics Development


    HISTORY 1512 - 1687 Part of the Kingdom of Golkonda.
    1687 Part of the Mughal Empire.
    20 Jun 1720 Mughal governor with style Nizam al-Molk establishes
    a quasi-independent state.
    7 Dec 1724 Haydarabad made capital of the state.
    12 Nov 1766 British protectorate (and 22 Aug 1809).

    Rulers (title Nizam al-Molk [from 24 Oct 1936, Nizam of Hyderabad and Berar])
    20 Jun 1720 - 1 Jun 1748 Qamar ad-Din Chin Qilij Khan (b. 1671 - d. 1748)
    (from 12 Jul 1737) Asaf Jah I
    1 Jun 1748 - 16 Dec 1750 Nasir Jang Mir Ahmad (b. 1712 - d. 1750)
    16 Dec 1750 - 13 Feb 1751 Muhyi ad-Din Muzaffar Jang Hidayat (d. 1751)
    Feb 1751 - 16 Oct 1752 Ghazi ad-Din (in rebellion) (d. 1752)
    13 Feb 1751 - 8 Jul 1762 Asaf ad-Dowla Mir Ali Salabat Jang (b. 1718 - d. 1763)
    8 Jul 1762 - 6 Aug 1803 Ali Khan Asaf Jah II (b. 1734 - d. 1803)

    source : http://www.worldstatesmen.org/India_...tml#Haydarabad
    Last edited by wangrin; October 18, 2015 at 07:41 AM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  6. #6
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    NAWAB OF ARCOT



    Unit List
    To be placed here

    Building Chain
    Building Chain

    Technology Tree
    Technology Tree

    Graphics Development
    Graphics Development

    HISTORY 1692 : State of Arkat (Arcot) also called, Karnataka (Carnatic) after the region it dominated, founded (initially under Haydarabad).
    10 Feb 1763 : Recognized by the Treaty of Paris as an independent ruler (recognized by the Emperor in Delhi 26 Aug 1765).
    26 Jul 1801 : Arkat is de facto absorbed by the U.K. colonial government.

    Rulers (title Nawab)
    1692 - 1703 Zulfikar Ali Khan
    1703 - 1710 Daud Khan
    1710 - 1732 Mohammad Saadatullah Khan I
    1732 - 1740 Dost Ali Khan (d. 1740)
    1740 - 1742 Safdar Ali Khan (d. 1742)
    1742 - 1744 Mohammad Saadatullah Khan II (d. 1746)
    1744 - 31 Jul 1749 Anwaruddin Mohammad Khan (b. c.1672 - d. 1749)
    31 Jul 1749 - 16 Oct 1795 Mohammad Ali Khan (b. 1723 - d. 1795)
    16 Oct 1795 - 15 Jul 1801 Omdat al-Omara (b. 1748 - d. 1801)
    Last edited by wangrin; October 18, 2015 at 07:34 AM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  7. #7

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    We're implementing a more diverse Indian arena?

  8. #8
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Yes, India should be more challenging.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  9. #9

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Love it ^^ I will try to gather as much pictures as I can of their armed forces. We are going to be pretty lucky with the late 18th century period, but I guess it's going to be harder for the early 18th century.

    To be honest, oriental patch for IS III is something I would love to see even before other European patches (perhaps because there is a lack of good oriental mod for ETW and because Marath was the first faction I played with ETW xD)

    Nawab of Arcot princes and nawab (circa 1770)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Mysore soldiers (circa 1780-1790)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Nice pictures but not accurate LOL but interesting none the less (battle of Plassey; of Ambur; of Cuddalore; of Arcot; of Calcutta; and Seringapatam)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 











    Battle of Panipat, 1761. Interesting as we can see the soldiers, well, some of them LOL
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by 162eRI; September 10, 2012 at 06:03 PM.


  10. #10
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Some new pictures :

    1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

    1. Mahometan Officer
    2. Mahratta
    3. Seik and a Seapoy in the French Service
    4. (1) A Seapoy in the Native Attire; (2) A Hindoo Soldier; (3) A Brigbasi
    5. Two Seapoy Officers; A Private Seapoy


    Link : Handcoloured engravings by Frederic Shoberl from his work 'The World in Miniature: Hindoostan'. London: R. Ackerman, 1820's.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  11. #11

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    I've found some interesting informations and pictures about the troops in India.

    British Sepoys
    Information on the early uniforms of native enlisted men is scarce. Red cloth was supplied, and the coat followed roughly the cut of the British model, but the overall garb reflected a native flavour. All of these troops were infantry.
    Sepoys 1757
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Reconstruction of a sepoy of the 1st Battalion Bengal Native Infantry at Plassey. There are few details of the clothing worn by sepoys of this period and this reconstruction is somewhat conjectual. This illustration is in the Osprey book ‘Plassey 1757′, but is an exact copy of an early water colour (shown) by Frank Todd.


    Sepoy Officer 1757
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Sepoy Officer, 1757. Watercolour by Charles Lyall. The clothing of the sepoy troops who served with Clive at Plassey is not described in any of the contemporary accounts. As a result, many of the illustrations are based on guesswork than anyhing else. (Anne S.K Brown Military Collection, Brown University Library) Not sure when the sundial hat was first issued this is why the drawing may be wrong.

    Sepoys of Bombay 1773
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Sepoys of the 3rd Battalion at Bombay. Engraving published in London by M. Darly in 1773


    Sepoy 1780
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Sepoy soldier c1780

    Sepoy drummer, 1786.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Officer of a sepoy regiment with his syce and a drummer, 1786, by George Carter. Quite fancy dress for a sepoy regiment?!


    Golandar, Sepoy and Subedar, 1785
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A golandar of the Bengal Artillery, a sepoy of the Bengal Native Infantry, a Subedar of the Governor-General’s bodyguard, c1785. They are wearing the sundial hat.


    Sepoy servant, late 18th century.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A British officer of a Madras Sepoy Battailon attended by a sepoy servant, by Carl C.A. von Imhoff 1734-1788.

    Sepoys 1800
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Indian native officer and non-comissioned officer of 34th Regiment, c1802 and Indian sepoy c1800



    Sepoy drummers and fifers c1800
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    British sepoy drums and fifers, 1800. Watercolour by an unknown East India Company artist, 1800 (c). British sepoys of Madras, c1800. The introduction of a controversial new turban, viewed by Indians as a firangi topi (hat), and the implementation of new regulations over the sporting of caste marks on foreheads, earrings and facial hair. This Code of Military Regulations was given approbation on 13 March 1806 by Sir John Cradock, commander-in-chief of the Madras Army.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Indian European Regiments
    British:
    European Regiment, 1760
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    1st Bengal European Regiment, 1760. Water-colour by Harry Payne. The European regiments of Bengal, Bombay and Madras wore general issue clothing of red tunics, black hats and white gaiters. They were manned by British soldiers (Anne S.K. Brown Military Collection, Brown University Library)

    French:
    Kerjean's and Bussy's forces 1750s
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A modern representation of French soldiers serving in India in the 1750s (from a picture by Lucien Rousselot in Le Passepoil). On the left is a soldier of Kerjean’s company, 1751, while on the right stands an artilleryman and dragoon of Bussy’s force in 1753. The figure on the left wears a red coat with green facings while those on the right are dressed in green coats and red facings (Anne S. K. Brown Military colection, Brown University Library). Osprey ‘Plassey 1757′.

    French guns, 1750s
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Two of the French guns captured at Plassey. Currently at the Victoria memorial, Calcutta.



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Indian soldiers

    Mughal Sepoy c1750
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A Mughal Sepoy from Plassey 1757

    Mughal swordmen 1757
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Mughal swordmen fighting British troops during the battle of Plassey, as represented in a modern painting

    Mughal Kutch soldier and horseman, 1838
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Kutch soldier and horseman, 1838. They are armed with "torador" matchlock muskets and "talwar" sword. Unlike British sepoys wich uniforms were evolving like their European counterpart, native indian soldier uniforms didn't quite evolve. This is why 19th century paintings depicting Indian sepoys are revealing.

    Mughal heavy cavalry, 1600.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The Mughal heavy cavalry wore mail and plate armour (zereh bagtar) with helmets (kolah zereh) and their horses were also protected by armour (bargustavan). The weapons they carried were the sword, composite bow, lance, mace (gorz) and the saddle axe (tabarzin), and a shield (dhal) was also carried. They were mostly Pathan tribesmen riding large horses armed with swords and long spears. Some of them wore armour of mail manufactured in Lahore. The pictures are depicting 1600 armors, but Mughal heavy cavalry was using the same armors, weapons and uniforms during the 18th century. Painting is from 1885.

    Maratha swordman, c1750-1800
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Maratha levy soldier armed with a "firanghi" rapier or "kandha" sword and wearing orange clothes.

    Maratha pikemen 1793
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Standing at the back and to the left of the group can be seen Maratha pikemen keenly observing the fruits of their success. They are armed with the barcha, a spear made totally of steel, used by infantry rather than cavalry. The reception of the Mysorean hostage princes, Robert Home 1793.

    Maratha light horsemen, c1826
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Maratha horsemen armed with a "talwar" sword, a "dhal" round shield and a "nezah" spear made of tapering bamboo, with small heads and relatively long butt spikes, so they balance very close to the butt (and have a velvet grip at that point for the purpose). Because the bamboo is hollow, the spear is very light in weight for its size.

    Scinde horseman 1809.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Sindh horseman (Mughal service?) armed with a "talwar" sword, a "dhal" round shield, 1809.

    Hindoostan sepoy, 1804
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Hindoostan sepoy armed with a "torador" matchlock musket and a "gorz" (mace) which haft is fitted with a Khanda type handle.

    Rogue soldier, 1857
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A budmash of Oudec, which means a rogue, perhaps criminal, soldier. I know it's from the 19th century (the sepoy revolt of 1857), but it could feet rebel units.


    Mysore army
    -Zumrah Gumrah [Guard Infantry]
    the Tipu Sultan selected ten thousand men from the soldiers in his army. Shaikhs and Syeds, inhabitants of Seringapatam, Kilar, Devanahalli, Suba Sira, great Balapur and Tanjore were enrolled and Tipu called them his ‘Zumrai Khas’. The name of their batallion was derived from the Farsi couplet – ‘dur Zumrai Ma Ghumm Nubashud’, that is, ‘in our company sorrow shall find no entrance’. Zumrai in Farsi means Company or Unit and Khas means personal. So, this unit was his personal bodyguard. And what is very interesting here is that each consonant sound of the ‘Ghumm Nubashud’ was said to point to some racial element of the batallion. The letter ghayn (G) being the symbol of men of foreign nations(probably the French), mim(M) to denote mughals and marathas, nun (N) for Navayats (Muslims from the Konkan coast), be (B) for Brahmin, alif (A) for Afghan, shin(Sh) for Shia muslim and dal (D) for the Mehdivis in the army. The men of this division now became the most acceptable in the eyes of the Sultan, and all confidence was implicitly placed upon them. Towards the end of Tipu’s reign, Kirmani observes, this batallion (Kirmani calls it an ‘infidel’ batallion probably on account of it’s large Hindu and Shia muslim elements) gained complete ascendancy over all the departments of the state, and entered boldly into all the measures of government.
    -Asad Ilahi & Ahmadi [POW Infantry]
    Asad Ilahi means the faith of the lion (?). There were 8 Ahmadi regiments. The uniform of both regiments were made up of tiger cloth. Officers of both regiments were presented with gorgets of gold, silver and jewels. (book:an illustrated handbook of Indian arms). Clad in dress symbolically adorned with the Tiger stripes which symbolized the power of Tipu Sultan and his father Haidar Ali, they are well trained soldiers drilled in European fashion and can be expected to hold their own against European Sepoys and Line Infantry.
    -Tiger Grenadiers [Grenadiers]
    Nicknamed "Tiger Grenadiers" by British soldiers for the dress of purple wool adorned with lozenge spots, the grenadier battalions of Tipu Sultan's Sepoys were large, fearsome-looking men expected to uphold the same tasks as European Grenadiers. The pride of the Sultan's forces, these soldiers are the best drilled of Mysore's infantry. About the paintings Storming of seringapatam, 1800: "running swords through vanquished, cowering Mysore soldiers. Bodies of Tipu's sultan's elite Tiger Grenadiers, distinguishable only by their well known striped and spotted bubri uniforms and blue armor, lie scattered among the rubble in the grotesque poses of death" (book: Indian Renaissance: British Romantic Art And the Prospect of India)
    -Zumra Jaish [Line Infantry]
    Regiments raised within the confines of the Kingdom of Mysore (the Zumra). Haider Ali would become credited as one of the first Indian rulers to maintain a force in European style. His son Tipu Sultan would continue the innovative thinking of his father to the point that the primary arm of Mysore's military would be European style Line Infantry.
    -Ghair Zumra Jaish [Foreign Line Infantry]
    Amongst the Line Infantry there was a separation between regiments raised within the confines of the Kingdom of Mysore (the Zumra), and those who were 'foreign' and thus raised outside of its boundaries (Ghair Zumra). As to be expected of foreign soldiers who do not possess an illustrious reputation (As would the Swiss or Arab mercenaries), the Ghair Zumra are not as well maintained as their Mysorean counterparts. This is mitigated by a cheaper cost to arm and equip them and a far greater availability to recruit. They are the equivalent of the invading European's Sepoys, and can be expected to perform like typical Line Infantry.


    Mysore army uniform
    by Lieut. Ewan Bushby of the Bengal establishment' dated 1st September 1790 (?)
    The dress of the regular infantry is generally of purple woollen stuff, with white diamond formed spots on it, which is called the tyger jacket. On the head is worn a muslin turban, of a red colour, and round the waist a cumberband, or sash, of the same. Their legs and feet are entirely naked, excepting a kind of sandal slipper, worn to protect their soles from the roughness of the march. They are accoutred with black leather cross belts, and commonly armed with musquets of French manufacture; though some are made in their own country; over the lock is a leather covering, to defend it from dampness. In the distance, a part of the north west front of Seringapatam is seen. The twin minarets of Tipu's Masjid e'Ala, the great Sriranatha-svami temple and the flagstaff cavalier are clearly visible on the skyline.
    Tipu, the French and the English, all employed sepoy regiments, many of whom are commemorated on the monument which stands at the point where the British breached the walls of Seringapatam.
    Mysore flag bearer, 1790s
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Mysore flag bearer from Tipu Sultan's army. The flag pole is also a rocket launcher.

    Mysore grenadiers, 1794
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Mysore guard infantry, Zumrah Gumrah, c1790
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A painting (possibly European) of a soldier in the army of Tipu Sultan of Mysore. Possibly a Zumrah Gumrah, as he's wearing the finest Mysore's army uniform with tiger white dots on his blue cloth. Why Zumrah Gumrah, because he is not a Mohammedan, you can see it with his painted face.

    Mysore regular infantry, Zumra Jaish, c1790
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Wearing green and red turbans, showing them as Mohammedan soldier of the Mysore regular army.

    Mysore infantry and flags, 1806
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Charles Gold's Oriental Drawings, 1806, of Tipu's palace



    Possible officers
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZkWzchIma_.../Hyder-Ali.jpg
    http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypld...190&print=info
    http://greatest-battles.webs.com/Mys...ic_Shoberl.htm
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2h45Hmg26k...600/Tippu3.JPG
    Last edited by 162eRI; November 05, 2012 at 11:46 PM.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Mysore Royal Guards

    Talwar sword, Mysore socket bayonet with L shape and octogonal form
    Mysore/French blunderbuss musket, or small carbine, or flintlock rifle

    Mysore POW Infantry

    Talwar sword, Mysore socket bayonet with L shape and octogonal form
    Mysore or French flintlock rifle

    Mysore Grenadiers

    Talwar sword, Mysore socket bayonet with L shape and octogonal form
    Mysore or French flintlock rifle

    Mysore Line Infantry (Regulars)

    Talwar sword, Mysore socket bayonet with L shape and octogonal form
    Mysore or French flintlock rifle

    Mysore Foreign Line Infantry (Regulars)

    Talwar sword, Indian bayonet Sangin
    Torador matchlock musket
    I'm going to make the officers, kerala drummers and flag bearers and the other units ! cheer ^^


    Units Late Period
    Cavalry Silhadars [Heavy Cavalry]
    Sipahis [Lancers]
    Askars [Regular Corps of Cavalry]
    Kazzacks [Irregular Light Cavalry]

    Infantry Zamrah I Khas [Royal Guards] carabine or flintlock rifle
    Tiger Grenadiers [Grenadiers] flintlock rifle
    Zumra Jaish [Line Infantry] flintlock rifle
    Ghair Zumra Jaish [Foreign Line Infantry] matchlock musket
    Ahmadi [POW army] flintlock rifle
    Asad Ilahi [POW army] flintlock rifle
    Bandah [Slave army] archers, swordmen
    Janbaz [Suicide attack troops] swordmen
    Provincial Milicia [Milicia, volunteers] pikemen, swordmen
    Sepoys [Irregular Infantry] matchlock musket

    Artillery 2kg Ban [Rockets] :
    0,5 pounder gun [Field Artillery]
    1 pounder gun [Field Artillery]
    1,5 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    2 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    2,5 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    3 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    3,5 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    4,5 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    5 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    6 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    7 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    8 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    9 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    10 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    12 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    14 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    16 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    18 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    20 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    24 pounders gun [Field Artillery]
    26 pounders gun [Siege Artillery]
    30 pounders dgun [Siege Artillery]
    32 pounders gun [Siege Artillery]
    36 pounders gun [Siege Artillery] Mughal legacy
    42 pounders gun [Siege Artillery] Mughal legacy
    6 inches Howitzer
    8 inches Howitzer
    11,5 inches Howitzer
    12,5 inches Howitzer
    16 inches Howitzer
    7 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    8 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    9 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    10 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    11 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    12 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    13 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    15 inches Mortars/Light Howitzer [Siege artillery]
    2,5 inches Coehorn Light Mortars [Siege artillery]
    3 inches Coehorn Light Mortars [Siege artillery]
    3,5 inches Coehorn Light Mortars [Siege artillery]
    4,5 inches Coehorn Light Mortars [Siege artillery]
    5,5 inches Coehorn Light Mortars [Siege artillery]
    6 inches Coehorn Light Mortars [Siege artillery]
    Last edited by 162eRI; November 06, 2012 at 01:16 AM.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Nizam of Hyderabad
    Units- Late Period Westernized Corps [European mercenaries] Former Bussy's forces
    Westernized Infantry [Line Infantry]
    Irregulars
    Ban [Rockets]


    Punjab - Sikh
    Units - Mid Period
    Cavalry Akalis sowar [Fanatics suicide attacks] cavalry that dismount to hand to hand combat with two swords and steel quoits.
    Misldar sowar [Sikh Light Cavalry]
    Jagirdari sowar [Irregular Light Cavalry] Feudal cavalry
    Ghorchurra sardar sowar [Feudal Heavy Cavalry]
    Infantry Sikh Infantry [Early regular Infantry Western style]
    Gurkhas [Irregulars Infantry]
    Punjabi [Irregular Infantry]
    Sikh [Irregular Infantry]
    Sardar [Swordmen]
    Akalis [Fanatics Irregular Infantry]
    Militia [Garrison army]
    Artillery Zamburkhana [Swivels artillery]
    Heavy Artillery [Siege Artillery] Mughal legacy
    Light Artillery [Field Artillery]
    Ghubaras [Mortars]

    Units - Late Period
    Cavalry Akalis sowar [Fanatics suicide attacks] cavalry that dismount to hand to hand combat with two swords and steel quoits.
    Misldar sowar [Sikh Light Cavalry]
    Jagirdari sowar [Irregular Light Cavalry] Feudal cavalry
    Ghorchurra sardar sowar [Feudal Heavy Cavalry]
    Ghorchurra khas sowar [Westernized Life Guard]
    Chairana sowar [Westernized Heavy Cavalry]
    Dragon sowar [Sikh Dragons] part of the Fauj I Soware [Westernized cavarly army]
    Lancer sowar [Sikh Light Cavalry - Lancers] part of the Fauj I Soware [Westernized cavarly army]

    Infantry Fauj I Khas [Elite Westernized Army] one Gurkha battalion and others were Sikhs (Dal Khalsa doctrine of westernization) royal guard equiped French Imperial style with square flag and eagles
    Fauj I Ain [Regular troops armed, clothed and trained in Western style] Sikh
    Fauj I Ain [Regular troops armed, clothed and trained in Western style] Gurkhas
    Najib [Regular Fauj I Ain battalion] Punjabi muslims
    Seik Irregulars [Traditional Sikh Infantry] part of the Jagirdari Fauj (feudal army)
    Sardar [Swordmen] part of the Jagirdari Fauj (feudal army)
    Akalis [Fanatics Line Infantry]
    Fauj I Qilajat [Garrison army]
    Muslim Irregulars [Line Infantry] part of the Jagirdari Fauj (feudal army)

    Artillery Zamburkhana [Swivels Old fashion artillery] Muslim command
    Topkhana Fili [Siege Artillery] Elephant artillery
    Topkhana Gavi [Siege Artillery] Bullock artillery
    Topkhana Aspi [Field Artillery] Horse artillery
    Topkhana Aspi [Howitzer Artillery] Horse artillery
    Topkhana Shutri [Field Artillery] Armed Camel artillery
    Ghubaras [Mortars]
    Horse Artillery [Field Artillery] westernized modern artillery battery


    Some westernized units, mostly cavalry, can be removed from the roster, as they are really mid-19th century. Others westernized units on the other hand already existed in 1800.
    Last edited by 162eRI; November 06, 2012 at 01:31 PM.


  14. #14

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Proposed roster for Mysore, late period.
    What do you think Wangrin ? I removed the elephants from the cavalry as they weren't use for combat anymore by the end of the 18th century... that's what they say anyway. I forget to add the elephants "gardes du corps" for the Sultan.


  15. #15
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    It is not possible to add so much artillery units.
    But it is possible :
    • to differentiate "native" artillery and "europeanized" one
    • to differentiate heavy and "light" artillery


    We could have something like this :
    • native heavy artillery
    • Europeanized artillery (like the "artillery of the stirrup" for the Maratha)
    • native light artillery (like camels)


    For Indian factions' roster, they should be composed of few "national/faction" units and a big roster of regional units used by all.
    For instance, Akali could be specific to Sikh (only available for).
    But Sikh warrior would be a "generic" unit available for all faction that own a region from their AoR (Area of Recruitment).

    "Warrior" could be of 4 types :
    • pikeman
    • swordsman
    • archer
    • musketeer


    "Sepoy" could refer to "Europeanized" native infantry, but divide in ethnical groups (Bengal sepoys, Hindu sepoys, etc.)

    To represent European infantry, it could be easier to allow Indian states to recruit English or French colonial infantry if they own region with colonial building (French or English).
    Last edited by wangrin; November 06, 2012 at 04:28 PM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  16. #16

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    So, does it work this way?:
    National units (regular and some irregular units): only the faction can recruit them in said territory
    ex: Fauj I Ain (Sikh Line Infantry) and Akali (Sikh Fanatic Irregulars) can be recruit only by the Sikh and only in Punjab territory.
    AOR units (warriors): every Indian faction can recruit them in said territory
    ex: Mysore Feudal Light Cavalry can be recruit by any Indian faction but only in Mysore.
    Faction units (some irregular units and European units): only some factions can recruit them but in every territory (if specific buildings are here or if factions can build them)
    ex: Afghan Irregulars can be recruit only by Muslim factions outside of Afghanistan (in Afghanistan, they are AOR units, but muslim factions can recruit them as mercenaries outside of this territory)

    Well, for the artillery we should indeed reduce the number of calibres to something more westerner like. And mix it with the idea of Native and Europeanized artillery.

    Do you think you will be able to make the different carriages: elephant, bullocks and horses ? Or will you make them fixed artillery ?

    Because for many Indian states, what Europeans used as Siege Artillery (for exemple 16 pounders) it was considered as Field Artillery by the Indians (and thus could be moved on the battlefield with the bullocks or elephants).


  17. #17
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    First, contrary to European, Indians artillery didn't use "standardized" gun such as 12pdr, 6pdr, etc.
    So, native battery were composed of gun of different calibers.
    This is the reason why I think that native artillery should not be categorized by caliber but as "native artillery" (or "heavy native artillery" because Indian field gun were significantly bigger than they European counterparts).

    Second, native artillery was heavy and should be static on the battlefield.
    Moreover, it seems difficult to add oxen because it is not possible to add a new skeleton in ETW.

    Third, Indians used light guns, such as those use with camels or elephant.
    They can be compared to "amusettes" from Marechal de Saxe or fortress muskets.


    About National units / AoR units / faction groups units, it's what I was thinking.
    But religion was not a problem in India, even Hindu prince recruited Muslim and Muslim prince recruited Hindu.
    What was important was... the paid.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  18. #18

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Cool, couldn't agree more with you on that! Indeed, either Hindus or Muslims soldiers... it wasn't a problem as long as they were paid. But, I choose Afghan Irregulars as I needed an example and because this unit, correct me if I'm wrong, was employed only by Indian Muslim states.

    Well, if you can make an unit with different calibres ingame, then, yes, Native artillery should be named by category rather than calibre. Also, for Europeanized artillery, even if they kept an huge number of calibres and kept employing old Mughol guns, they started to standardized their batteries, they didn't mix them anymore. So for the late period, they will switch to calibre categories.

    Well, some heavy guns were movable on the battlefield (for example the battle of Plassey with Mughal movable artillery platforms). Such a pity we can't modify the skeletons! But, the elephants are already ingame, and ox's skeletons are the same than horse's skeletons right? Do you mean, it's not possible to modify the gun carriage's skeleton, like change the horse for an ox (horse with ox texture/body) or an elephant?

    I've found all (almost) the unit roster for Mysore and the Sikh. Nizam of Hyderabad is a bit foggy and Maratha and Mughol are an huge piece of research...

    Will post photos of the Mysore artillery and carriages. You will love them ^_^


  19. #19
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
    Patrician Artifex

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    4,397

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    I've worked on Maratha roster and I think it is almost complete.
    I have to work on Mughal roster, I have all the informations I need but find some time to write their roster on paper.

    Horse and ox skeleton are not exactly the same, and ox would need new animations too.
    It is not a piece of cake...




    About artillery, it is not possible to add different gun models nor textures in the same unit.
    But it important to avoid to classified "native" artillery using caliber to clearly distinct the native artillery from the "Europeanized" one.
    And even Europeanized artillery used by Indian powers were rarely class by caliber, they often try to regroup them more or less but rarely achieve the same level of organization as their European counterparts.
    Indian were not particularly good with artillery, it was one of their great weaknesses.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  20. #20

    Default Re: Indian States - Gameplay Discussion

    Sure, it's not the same skeleton, but what I meant is it's close enough to change it into an ox. Also, it's going to need new animations indeed... That with the new ox body, texture, and animations, represent an hell lot of work... Too bad, because it would have been very nice ^_^

    Well, like you say they tried to regroup them. But anyway, by the mid 18th century, many guns were not native anymore, or not native looking anymore. So, if I understand you, they should have Europeanized artillery, the same way they had Native artillery: no calibres, even for Europeanized, just the size (heavy, light...) and type (siege, mortars...) . I'm going to modify my unit roster once again xD haha

    Interestingly enough, I found that the Marathas had in the early 1700s European firearm and rank drills training throughout South Asian (Topasses) NCOs. This Topasses were former EIC soldiers and Baji Rao I recruted them to train massed ranks of flintlock-armed regulars. It's almost half a century before other Indian states try to Westernized their units. Maratha was known anyway to have excellent infantry and cavalry (Bargirs regular light cavalry, provincial light cavalry from Dhangars and Mahars, Silladars cavalry and Pindaries rogue irregular horsemen)

    Found some interesting stuff on the Nizam of Hyderabad. Aside from Nizam's guard units (Sepoy amazons for the win! xD), the infantry of Hyderabad sucked and didn't have a good reputation. But they had very good lancer horsemen, which became later the finest lancers of the British Indian army.


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •