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Thread: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

  1. #161
    Vexillifer
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vonebor View Post
    Oh and I wanted to avoid using this rather trite quote, but it's just too tempting. For all those advocating cowering in fear, might I suggest reading the following quote from a Mr. Martin Niem÷ller:
    First they came for the socialists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.
    What I am suggesting is that solidarity is important, by the way, not that the WB is a Nazi company.
    I'm not suggesting cowering in fear. By all means, if the team thinks a case can be made then make the case. They just need to be informed of the possible outcomes, and then make a decision. It's good they have a real lawyer helping them with that. I don't ever tell people that they can't do something as long as they know what they are getting into. Maybe not the best qoute though, people still seem to be sensitive about anything related to the Nazi's in any way shape or form. Silly, but true.

    Also, I didn't mean to suggest that simply going to court would get the team in trouble. I was saying if they went, lost, and continued anyway. It would be much more likely then than if they just went on ahead now and made it.

    ZTree, I understand you are just normal guys. I also understand WB is a greedy corporation, which I almost always rail against for various reasons. I want to see the mod be a huge success, and I realize you are all super talented. But legally, I just don't see it based on the research I've done into fair use. I am of course not an actual lawyer, so I'm sure your real lawyer has lots of angles I'll never think of to use.
    Last edited by Josh Knight; September 18, 2012 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #162
    Kabe difendā
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Knight View Post
    I'm not suggesting cowering in fear. By all means, if the team thinks a case can be made then make the case. They just need to be informed of the possible outcomes, and then make a decision. It's good they have a real lawyer helping them with that. I don't ever tell people that they can't do something as long as they know what they are getting into. Maybe not the best qoute though, people still seem to be sensitive about anything related to the Nazi's in any way shape or form. Silly, but true.

    Also, I didn't mean to suggest that simply going to court would get the team in trouble. I was saying if they went, lost, and continued anyway. It would be much more likely then than if they just went on ahead now and made it.

    ZTree, I understand you are just normal guys. I also understand WB is a greedy corporation, which I almost always rail against for various reasons. I want to see the mod be a huge success, and I realize you are all super talented. But legally, I just don't see it based on the research I've done into fair use. I am of course not an actual lawyer, so I'm sure your real lawyer has lots of angles I'll never think of to use.
    The irony of it is the fan made projects and videos actually boost sales of the companies products....

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    HolyDevil's Avatar Sōkō yumi
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Thats what I dont understand, it may or may not boost their sales, but since they don't win any money from it, it simply showing the Lotr out for everybody, and once they're done playing the mod, they will want to play a different point of view, hence go out and try other Lotr related games, wich are ownd by who? The same guys trying to shut merp down....

    I think the "free investment" of letting merp continue can only produce more profit on the long run....

    But they want to play the safe card, eliminate inovation, talent, and let the world stagnate...

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    SRACon17's Avatar Signifer
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    wow, you may be right there. i realized that just now..

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    Bowmaster's Avatar Ishiyumi no shashu
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Petition number is not increasing much.
    (yeah, yeah, I'm fin player of TATW 3.2...

    In Memoriam: Blackomur89

    Save MERP and TATW!

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    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Princeps Posterior
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Yeah in the first week it raised about 1200 signes a day. But now most people really interested and wanting to help already gave their sign i fear.
    Oh well... Guardians of Middle Earth: 60 Euro? 14800 x 60 = 888000 Euro.

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    the lightning legion's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    i can understand where WB is coming from some people wouldnt touch guardians of middle earth with a barge pole if merp was available

  8. #168
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Well, after FBI just arrested 2 teenagers for caring "dangerous books" last week, and acused them of "domestic terrorism", I think all is possible.
    We're heading towards a facist worldwide society, in which governments decide what we can or not do, eat, read, play and buy, with big corporations like Warn a Brother sponsoring their greedy claws, while people, in most cases, applaud this.

    But here it's rather ironical; for all I remember there was an argument from one of the modelers against Taro_M for using his works. Now the table turned, unfortunately, but it may serve for some people to taste their own poison.
    War is comming and it's time to side up. Or you stand for your freedom, or you join the government and their lackeys and sponsors (and play a LoTR game made by them, without complains).

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    Vexillifer
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Considering my entire career plan consists of me working for the federal government.....

    Anyway, behavior like this is nothing new. The "Robber Barons" shut competition down all the time in the past centuries. The world's going to be fine. Heck, it's more peaceful now then ever before, and were are more prosperous than any other civilization ever. Give it a hundred years and we'll be colonizing our solar system.

    I haven't heard of this Guardians of Middle Earth thing, but if it's good, I'll buy it. Just like I plan on seeing the Hobbit movies multiple times. I've signed the petition, but don't let one bigwigs position stop you from enjoying something.

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    ztree's Avatar Ashigaru
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Yup, I guess the signatures have reached a limit at the moment. But 14,500! that is a big WOW to me personally. I never thought we'd get that far, for a single mod directed at a single decision of one company it is really cool.
    If, god forbid, WB decides to target TATW, now they know at least that stuff like this can cause some real PR trouble. TATW would easily reach at least the double amount of signatures and even faster than us.
    So if anything, the case of Merp could let corporations think twice before messing around with the modding community again. So it was worth it in the end, even if we fail now (but we are not at this point quite yet, WB )

    Also, I don't understand the thought process of WB entirely on this. Do they think that their customers wouldn't be interested in LOTR products anymore, after they played a mod? Or that a customer thinks: "Now I get a free LOTR mod, I have thus satisfied my LOTR urge forever, and will spend my budget on other games and genres in the future" . Gamers don't think like this. In reality, gamers are pretty loyal to their favorite franchises and will buy even more similar games, after having an enjoyable experience with one game of a particular franchise.
    I give you an example, until I was about 12 years old, I never really liked the whole Star Wars thing. Then after one of my friends bought a really cool Star wars game that we both enjoyed, I was instantly hooked and bought a load of Star Wars games since then. Even the crappy ones. Even when I knew beforehand that they are crappy. I am loyal to the whole franchise, because I had some enjoyable moments with Star Wars years ago.
    With LOTR it's the same. I would go so far to say that LOTR gamers are one of the most loyal followers out there. So Merp is really just free advertisment to the whole Tolkien IP.
    But big companys don't know how gamers think, they only know the mindset of the big companys themselves. Which is: competition - destroy - profit - rinse repeat. But it will eventually reveal them as the big bad guys, that they actually are. So they have to spend more and more on PR campaigns, to clean up after their constant ugly actions.

    On the topic of copyright in general and our post modernism society, it is my opinion that if they want to keep the copyright laws as they are right now, they have to introduce more surveillance of the internet. Gooogle anything with torrent and you can have a glimpse at the situation. If they really want to fight this succesfully, they have to diminish a few rights of freedom (if you look closer, not just a few).
    So they have to ask themselves, what is more important? rights of freedom, or intelectual property rights?
    In the U.S.A: they have already made their decision, I think.
    But the whole world is not the U.S.A... So what is their decision worth in the end? (the people's rights would be lost anyway)

  11. #171
    Wolfeson's Avatar Centurio
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    On the subject of increasing internet surveillance to support copyright laws, unfortunately it's very easy to overreach with that. We've seen that already this year with the battle over SOPA/PIPA, and the consequences that could have had. The two things that scared me the most there:

    1. This was almost the ONLY thing the Democrats and Republicans could agree on over the last 2 years, and it was probably the WORST idea any of them had come up with in that time.
    2. The fact that the mainstream media really did seem to be trying to hide those bills from the public. Now I'm not one of those people who thinks the mainstream media is completely biased, or completely in the pocket of the government, or Wall Street, or whoever. But I look over the news on cnn.com every day, and it truly shook me when I realized SOPA/PIPA had been cruising through Congress for weeks without a word; I actually found out about it from a youtube channel I watch for SC2.

  12. #172
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    I have a question with regards to WB actually charging someone. What body to they intend to actually target with their C&D? There isn't a company that they can legally challenge and there isn't a leader other than an unofficial role allocated by the team. If they are targeting an individual, then that individual can stop his work while the others can continue. Am I right?

  13. #173
    Beregond's Avatar Слава Україні!
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by the lightning legion View Post
    i can understand where WB is coming from some people wouldnt touch guardians of middle earth with a barge pole if merp was available
    I won't touch this pile of garbage regardless

    If WB can't make good LOTR games, they'd better off
    Last edited by Beregond; September 20, 2012 at 09:55 AM.

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    Bowmaster's Avatar Ishiyumi no shashu
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Knight View Post
    I haven't heard of this Guardians of Middle Earth thing, but if it's good, I'll buy it. Just like I plan on seeing the Hobbit movies multiple times. I've signed the petition, but don't let one bigwigs position stop you from enjoying something.
    All the games based on movies and books, well, almost all, are bad and they suck. The Guardians of Middle-Earth... bah, even the name tells that the game sucks. It's just one thing: fighting. "Oh here's a few guys to kill. Now more is coming. This is getting interesting, even more. Wow, even more enemies. Okay, stop bothering be already. I said STOP! No. More. Enemies! I'm going crazy, is this all this game can afford!" I've got a lot of experience on that one.
    (yeah, yeah, I'm fin player of TATW 3.2...

    In Memoriam: Blackomur89

    Save MERP and TATW!

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    the lightning legion's Avatar Hastatas Prior
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    i am really loyal to the alien francise after a few craptastic titles but if they tried top stop somone unoffical from relighting the xenomorphs fires then the franchise would be dead to me.
    is this the general consensus on WB?

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bowmaster View Post
    All the games based on movies and books, well, almost all, are bad and they suck.
    This is surprisingly true, I can find at least a couple good things to say about almost all of them, but what's really upsetting is that some of the worst of the LoTR games aren't even the quick movie tie-in products. You can't say they haven't tried different things, or that different companies haven't gotten a fair shake at it, I just wonder if the suits really don't think LoTR is popular enough to put a large investment into. Remember that White Council game that got canceled? Somebody certainly got cold feet there, they probably ate a lot of money on it, too.
    I guess War in the North was a big AAA game, but it was bad. In fact... I'd say 90% of the awfulness could have been avoided if they had just not tried to make up a new story. It's like watching LoTR through the eyes of the Fellowship of the B-Team, just like Third Age (that old ps2 rpg).
    Last edited by cire992; September 22, 2012 at 02:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Knight View Post
    Heck, it's more peaceful now then ever before
    Yeah mate, I'm afraid my BS-sensor is tingling now.








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    Kiliš Alý's Avatar Pili Prior
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Heck, it's more peaceful now then ever before
    The calm before the tempest I say...

    I have a question with regards to WB actually charging someone. What body to they intend to actually target with their C&D? There isn't a company that they can legally challenge and there isn't a leader other than an unofficial role allocated by the team. If they are targeting an individual, then that individual can stop his work while the others can continue. Am I right?
    Now, this is an interesting point. I suppose (mr Ztree can correct me) that WB sent the Cease and Desist letter not to a team member but to the hosting site (either ModDB or Skyrim Nexus or whatever).This third subject then said to the mod members to actually shut the work down.

    I wonder, if such work is actually officially shooted down (grammar?) and, let's say, a new one appears, whoose members are not US citizens, hosted here on TWC in some non-totalwar-games section (that we already have), it would be a formally new and different project, right? and if released before any letter arrives, then there would be nothing WB can do, right?

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    Gallus's Avatar Equites
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aruthiel View Post
    Yeah mate, I'm afraid my BS-sensor is tingling now.
    Aye. One could also argue that a civilization in which less than 1% of the population holds more than 50% of all resources is not very prosperous. But now we're getting off topic. The point is, WB is an evil corporation and we all hate it.



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    Meh . . . Spain or Portugal, the country the country that looks like a boot!

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    That's Poland, dude.


  20. #180
    Bowmaster's Avatar Ishiyumi no shashu
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by cire992 View Post
    This is surprisingly true, I can find at least a couple good things to say about almost all of them, but what's really upsetting is that some of the worst of the LoTR games aren't even the quick movie tie-in products. You can't say they haven't tried different things, or that different companies haven't gotten a fair shake at it, I just wonder if the suits really don't think LoTR is popular enough to put a large investment into. Remember that White Council game that got canceled? Somebody certainly got cold feet there, they probably ate a lot of money on it, too.
    I guess War in the North was a big AAA game, but it was bad. In fact... I'd say 90% of the awfulness could have been avoided if they had just not tried to make up a new story. It's like watching LoTR through the eyes of the Fellowship of the B-Team, just like Third Age (that old ps2 rpg).
    The reason why the games are so bad, is that it's name is enough to make it sell. Think that you are a dedicated LotR-fan. You see a new LotR-game coming on stores. It's name is "Middle-Earth: the adventures of the Fellowship". Will you buy it or not? And the answer is... YES! You just can't get your hands off of it.
    (yeah, yeah, I'm fin player of TATW 3.2...

    In Memoriam: Blackomur89

    Save MERP and TATW!

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