Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

[Nastrael]

is there a law against abusing copyrights? not that this is the case for MERP v WB, but if there is a law against it, I wouldn't be surprised if WB get screws themselves over if they keep pushing their luck at the rate they are.

[knight of meh]

not really unfortunately .. copyright is there to protect material for the creator /owner etc so that other don't profit from your hard work , the only way you can abuse a copyright is if you go after people doing stuff outside the scope of your copyright / or produce stuff outside the copyright scope using the copyright as a base for you actions = WB's casino characters are a case point

[✠Ikaroqx✠]

Why is WB actually asking the MERP team to stop? Is it because they have the license to create LOTR games and they don't want anyone else creating anything LOTR related? Or is it they'e worried they'll loose money if MERP goes ahead? From what's been said it sounds WB thinks MERP being released would be financially damaging for them. Realistically how much money would they really loose? Probably a very very small fraction; after all they do make plenty of other games and films and losing LOTR game sales will hardly matter. I really think they're just paranoid and over reacting.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Ztree, has your team told WB that by making MERP you'll basically be giving them free advertising?

[cire992]

afaik, they aren't suing the MERP guys, it was a cease and desist order. Apparently there is some ongoing legal battle between WB and Tolkien Enterprises, but (I think?) that's unrelated.

[knight of meh]

Why is WB actually asking the MERP team to stop? Is it because they have the license to create LOTR games and they don't want anyone else creating anything LOTR related? Or is it they'e worried they'll loose money if MERP goes ahead? From what's been said it sounds WB thinks MERP being released would be financially damaging for them. Realistically how much money would they really loose?

asked and answered your own question ... in theory judging from the LOTR games that have been produced so far and what i have seen done in a skyrim engine they could lose money because i would go for the skyrim engine every time

Apparently there is some ongoing legal battle between WB and Tolkien Enterprises, but (I think?) that's unrelated.

it is unrelated it's about WB over reaching there copyright by including Tolkiens characters in other stuff

[ztree]

Why is WB actually asking the MERP team to stop? Is it because they have the license to create LOTR games and they don't want anyone else creating anything LOTR related? Or is it they'e worried they'll loose money if MERP goes ahead? From what's been said it sounds WB thinks MERP being released would be financially damaging for them. Realistically how much money would they really loose? Probably a very very small fraction; after all they do make plenty of other games and films and losing LOTR game sales will hardly matter. I really think they're just paranoid and over reacting.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Ztree, has your team told WB that by making MERP you'll basically be giving them free advertising?

Yeah my friend, who knows what goes on in their heads , but officially they told us that it's about protecting their trademark and not "confusing" players that it's a WB product. Oh, and also that they want to prevent their lotr copyrights from being "cannibalized" (yes, they used that word) and ensuring that their "high quality" (again their words) games are representing the lotr trademark and not some self made fan (now, that's not their exact word, but the gist of it), to which they are happy that the fans are doing stuff, but want us to cease and desist in this case.
It is a joke, of course, that they are assuming our mod team are fans of WB (they adressed us as "their fans" anyway) . They don't seem to get the idea, that we were doing this because of Tolkien and his world and WB has nothing to do with it.

Now whatever, we're still on hold and the negotiations continue. All I can say now is that we're still trying to get some kind of outcome where we can at least continue work with our assets and heightmap and whatnot. It could be not the third age, it could be not the names and places that we know and love, but if we're still in Arda we're still alive, right? But more news are coming soon, I hope.

[Nastrael]

Yeah my friend, who knows what goes on in their heads , but officially they told us that it's about protecting their trademark and not "confusing" players that it's a WB product. Oh, and also that they want to prevent their lotr copyrights from being "cannibalized" (yes, they used that word) and ensuring that their "high quality" (again their words) games are representing the lotr trademark and not some self made fan (now, that's not their exact word, but the gist of it), to which they are happy that the fans are doing stuff, but want us to cease and desist in this case.
It is a joke, of course, that they are assuming our mod team are fans of WB (they adressed us as "their fans" anyway) . They don't seem to get the idea, that we were doing this because of Tolkien and his world and WB has nothing to do with it.

Now whatever, we're still on hold and the negotiations continue. All I can say now is that we're still trying to get some kind of outcome where we can at least continue work with our assets and heightmap and whatnot. It could be not the third age, it could be not the names and places that we know and love, but if we're still in Arda we're still alive, right? But more news are coming soon, I hope.

i'd rather die than have to see them tip toe around the copyright with names like Araborn or Gimlette or some crap like that... Q.Q

[Lugiahua]

To me this is also bizarre. But a lawyer confirmed to us that technically if you are creating something LOTR on your own (even in private) you are infringing. That means if you are painting an Arwen picture on your own, you are infringing

That doesn't make sense, WB doesn't own all Tolkien material rights.
There are several LOTR games unrelated to WB or Peter Jackson, such as Lord of the Rings Online...

[knight of meh]

THE LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE™ interactive video game © 2013 Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc and patents pending. All rights reserved.

copyed and pasted from lord of the rings online...

WB do indeed own the copyright to make and distribute lord of the rings games based on the books and it's characters as of 2010 i believe

there are two possibilities as to why you can find games of lord of the rings not produced by WB

1)the game was released before the copyright passed to WB
2)the company making the release is paying WB so they can use the characters , places etc in there game / you will still find this :© 2013 Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc somewhere on there release

[ztree]

And also, there's a distinction between Lotr material and Tolkien material. Tolkien material is everything from Lotr to Sil to Children of Hurin to Farmer of Ham. Lotr material is only what is contained in the Lotr trilogy. WB has bought a sub-license from Saul Zaentz to make products from the Lotr material plus Hobbit material. Saul Zaentz has bought the Lotr and Hobbit rights from Tolkien back in the day. He's giving out sub-licenses to companys (WB has the gaming rights amongst others). Now, Sil, or unfinished tales etc. still is with the Tolkien Estate (the heirs of our beloved professor). They don't give out licenses easily, because they want to preserve the legacy in dignity.

[Lugiahua]

THE LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE™ interactive video game © 2013 Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc and patents pending. All rights reserved.

copyed and pasted from lord of the rings online...

I haven't play it for years, guess that WB bought it as well..

[King_Louis_IX]

Hi all, I've read through all the posts in this giant thread. Can anyone answer this question?

-Does anyone know for sure that WB knows about TATW?

If we know that they know but aren't doing anything about it, then that is a very good sign for this mod.

[ztree]

Look, in our communications with WB we never brought any other mod up (not even non lotr mods). I know this for sure. And quite frankly, WB doesn't even seem to understand what a mod actually is. Not even now, lol. First they thought we were some kind of online roleplaying game. We tried to explain to them what a mod is (without referencing other mods, to protect them) and I'm not sure they understand still. Hell, they even don't understand what "gameplay" is. They were using the term "gameplay" like this: "...the gameplay for this project has to stop..."

So despite all the popularity of TATW amongst many modding aficionados, I think there's a chance that WB doesn't even know of your existence... And even if they do, they at least know that they can't do anything about it anymore. TATW is already downloaded by 100k's of people and no one can unring that bell anymore. Either way, in my opinion TATW is safe and I'm happy about that.

[Withwnar]

They were using the term "gameplay" like this: "...the gameplay for this project has to stop..."

Oh dear. Sounds like they're in the wrong business.

[✠Ikaroqx✠]

C?m on bÃ*i vi?t r?t hay up cho b?n

Spambot swearing see even they're mad at the unfairness.

The problem is the priorities this is for WB and the MERP team is very different; for MERP this is everything for them and suddenly they are ordered to stop all their hard work. For WB they would just brush the issue under the carpet and forget about it. What you guys need to do is weasel a real answer out of them, not this continuous polite chit chat that it looks like they've been playing. Seriously the way they're talking sounds like a pre planned company statement that they're doing only to humour you guys.

This may be far fetched, but is it possible to arrange a face to face meeting with them to show them exactly what MERP is (e.g demonstrating on the computer) and how it would actually help WB LOTR sales? Not to mention sending a 'Mods for dummies' book, they'd need it

[Gallus]

Look, in our communications with WB we never brought any other mod up (not even non lotr mods). I know this for sure. And quite frankly, WB doesn't even seem to understand what a mod actually is. Not even now, lol. First they thought we were some kind of online roleplaying game. We tried to explain to them what a mod is (without referencing other mods, to protect them) and I'm not sure they understand still. Hell, they even don't understand what "gameplay" is. They were using the term "gameplay" like this: "...the gameplay for this project has to stop..."

Now that explains why their games suck.
I hope you replied that you are no longer developing gameplay for MERP so they can stop worrying about you.