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Thread: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

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  1. #1
    Lord Hamilton's Avatar Treun anns a' chath
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    Default Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Guys, check this out!!: http://merp.straygenius.com/forum/vi...?f=271&t=10821

    Any Elder Scrolls modding people will certainly recognize this mod - it's been in development FOREVER. WB (Warner Bros) just sent them a cease & desist order based on the Lord of the Rings copyright. Basically they've been forced to shut their mod down, given they don't have equivalent legal resources to combat this (IMHO) ridiculous claim.

    I cant seem to find a ton of details out there on what parts WB took objection to, but MERP is similar to TATW in that it has "movie inspired" unit designs and locales, which are expanded on based on Tolkien's source material and the dev team's imagination...

    Also, in a lot of the defenses of MERP, I see things like "Why did MERP get shut down when TATW is still around?" Not trying to necessarily sound the alarm here, but I really really really hope this doesn't impact this most wonderful piece of Total War modding...
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?


  3. #3

    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    That's a very sad piece of news to hear, and also a worrying one. Here's hoping that they will not come after TATW.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    This is what King Kong does with Cease and Desist letters:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    In all reality they have no claim to this. If the mod team could get a good lawyer they would win easily, and that's only if WB was stupid enough to take them to court. It's a shame they're just going to roll over and let WB walk all over them. In both cases (Skyrim and TATW) the mods are free to use, so the modders are not earning money off of copyrighted material. There may be some small claim that the Skyrim mod is taking money away from other LotR related sales, as some games already exist that are similar to Skyrim (The War in the North perhaps) but I think this would be hard to prove in court and a judge most likely wouldn't go for it. In the case of TATW, there is no turn based LotR strategy game that WB is marketing that TATW would be in direct competition with.
    Last edited by StealthFox; August 31, 2012 at 02:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthFox View Post
    In the case of TATW, there is no turn based LotR strategy game that WB is marketing that TATW would be in direct competition with.
    So in other words, if WB made a turn based LotR strategy game, you guys could send them a Cease and Desist letter, because you got there first?

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lortano View Post
    So in other words, if WB made a turn based LotR strategy game, you guys could send them a Cease and Desist letter, because you got there first?
    There already is a turn based Lotr stradegy game, I know because i bought it a long time ago, its called The Battle for Middlearth 2. Whats scary is is that its just like TATW, you recruit troops send them to conqure the world or drive back the evil armies. you can even play a "War of the Ring" campaign which is like the fellowship campaign for TATW.

    This game came out in 2006, when did TATW come out?.
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evalation View Post
    There already is a turn based Lotr stradegy game, I know because i bought it a long time ago, its called The Battle for Middlearth 2. Whats scary is is that its just like TATW, you recruit troops send them to conqure the world or drive back the evil armies. you can even play a "War of the Ring" campaign which is like the fellowship campaign for TATW.

    This game came out in 2006, when did TATW come out?.
    I've played LotR BFME 2. It really isn't anything like TATW. Strategy doesn't mean anything, you just have to get as many troops as possible in the given amount of time. "War of the Ring"? Bah! That sucks! No rebels, no towns, just a field, you can only build two buildings in a region etc etc. And they don't have as much men as TATW has. 15 men in one unit. In TATW it's 150 men in one unit. Ten times more! And you have to create the units at battlefield, same with your kingdom. And there is no Rohan and Gondor factions. There's just "Men", which are basically just Gondor. Only thing that makes it Men not Gondor is that there is Rohan "Heroes", and you can recruit Rohirrim with level two stables. Etc etc etc...
    (yeah, yeah, I'm fin player of TATW 3.2...

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthFox View Post
    In both cases (Skyrim and TATW) the mods are free to use, so the modders are not earning money off of copyrighted material.
    Does the fair use principle on not making any money on copy righted material specify who is making the money? I think WB might argue that there are some people who have bought Medieval 2 Total War just for this this because it is so good. This mod is one made for a very popular game, and will appeal to the niche of people who make and play mods who otherwise have no interest in the original content.

    Because lets face it, a lot of stuff that bears the LotR IP are quite mediocre when you take away the LotR stuff, and if we were a bit more uncharitable, I would say that almost all the commercial LotR games are quite bad already, and would be markedly worse without that official LotR content.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    They are in contact with a lawyer (it says so in the thread).

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Warner Bro's probably looked ahead. When MERP would be released it would have been a big hit with a big community. Warner Bro's wants people to buy their LOTR products so they can make money, if someone makes a big mod like that, its likely to attract more people and make less buy Warner Bro's products.

    Look at Napoleonic Wars. Vince created Mount and Musket, biggest mod in Warband, it later became NW, and became a Mount and Blade Game.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    This is sad news, it may be due to the genre of the game that conflicts with WB's projects. Hopefully TATW has been around long enough for it to be safe. And its a type of game that WB wont want to make.

    30,000 people have visited the Moddb page today.
    Last edited by *Ranger*; August 31, 2012 at 03:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    These big companies always need to screw the more talented people. I was even close to joining the team months ago. There is still hope though, didn't read through everything but it seems WB doesn't have anything to go on here
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    I think if WB wanted to shut you guys down they would have done it by now... or at least tried.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    They'll have to pry TATW from my cold, dead hands. Which means that, in the worst case scenario, I'll burn it on a DVD and treasure it forever.

    But as others are saying, this mod has been around for quite a bit.
    Last edited by Alaeron; August 31, 2012 at 04:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    This is really an important topic.
    I was in contact with one of their developers already weeks ago, he told me of that problem and asked whether the TA Team has experience of that kind and whether we found a way to cooperate or are allowed to keep Third Age. I also have to say that we have NOT (yet) been contacted for anything like that, this might be due to either a) they do not know of Third Age (which I do NOT hope for, as phrases like "Why did MERP get shut down when TATW is still around?" would then directly mean danger for the Third Age mod), or b) they do know but it is too "small" or unimportant for them to care.

    One has to make a difference between a game like Skyrim V and Medieval 2. The market and the income is a complete different dimension. Also Skyrim spreads mods via Steam, so with such mods the developers would or might make more money. So I personally think that due to it being such other dimension they do indeed care, cause they fear others might get money or they won't although they do have (and payed) for the license.

    Like Gimli put it nicely:
    Warner Bro's probably looked ahead. When MERP would be released it would have been a big hit with a big community. Warner Bro's wants people to buy their LOTR products so they can make money, if someone makes a big mod like that, its likely to attract more people and make less buy Warner Bro's products.

    Look at Napoleonic Wars. Vince created Mount and Musket, biggest mod in Warband, it later became NW, and became a Mount and Blade Game.
    All in all I can just say let's hope we do not get contacted, for I doubt anyone of us has the money, the will and strength to go through some legal process (court/lawyer) and fight for Third Age being allowed to endure...
    Last edited by MasterBigAb; August 31, 2012 at 04:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterBigAb View Post
    This is really an important topic.
    I was in contact with one of their developers already weeks ago, he told me of that problem. I also have to say that we have NOT (yet) been contacted for anything like that, this might be due to either a) they do not know of Third Age (which I do NOT hope for, as phrases like "Why did MERP get shut down when TATW is still around?" would then directly mean danger for the Third Age mod), or b) they do know but it is too "small" or unimportant for them to care.

    One has to make a difference between a game like Skyrim V and Medieval 2. The market and the income is a complete different dimension. Also Skyrim spreads mods via Steam, so with such mods the developers would or might make more money. So I personally think that due to it being such other dimension they do indeed care, cause they fear others might get money or they won't although they do have (and payed) for the license.
    The difference is Skyrim is Steam-enforced. The Digital Rights of Med2TW can't be well Managed, as those who play Med2 through a CD and not Steam can't be forbidded from playing a mod.
    Steam can know that you have modified their game, and can ban you if you don't obey the law.
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    Well Boys Back Up your TATW in your hard drives hahaha XD

  18. #18

    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    The best part of this is that all commercial LotR games I've encountered so far suck when compared to mods like TATW or FATW. Maybe that's why they want to shut down mods, because having a lore based Skyrim (or other) mod around doesn't make the generic fantasy based commercial games look too good.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    There was a LOTR based Skyrim mod in development?! AND IT WAS SHUT DOWN BY WARNER BROS?!?!?!
    GAAHH! Words can't explain the epicness that WB shut down.
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    Default Re: Skyrim LoTR Mod (MERP) shut down by WB - does this have implications for TATW?

    I'd almost think WB is desperately trying to get more profit out of their licence by any means possible. Wouldn't be too much of a surprise considering War in the North was a mediocre game at best and didn't give them at much profit as they'd hoped for.

    Sad that they shut down a mod which was potentially better then anything they could have put out, though as said before, I don't think (or hope) TATW is in any direct danger.
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