Ancient Germanic Help

[Lost Eagle]

Hi guys, I'm currently writing a fictional piece on the Germanic tribes in the Roman era. I'd like to use this thread to ask any questions that may arise to make it more historically accurate, of which there shall be many!

My first query is of the marriage ceremonies. Now I know that it was unusual for very young girls to be married off, a la the Romans, with them being a little more 'mature'. Further to this the wedding dowry came from the man not the woman and the gifts were martial in the forms of weapons and shields, plus practical gifts such as Oxen.

This is as far as I get, I can guess that they took place at a shrine to Freya (I may be wrong), but who leads the ceremony? Any further details would be splendid please.

[Dyēus]

There is no such information available, I fear, but it would be most probably that the local warlord/chief/Big Man(google for the anthropologic definition) would be involved. I also doubt that it would be held at a shrine(unless it is in Roman Germania, and Freya might still be the same deity as Frigg, I would not simply use Norse Paganism as a substitute for a Pan-Germanic Pantheon, because there are several centuries and the cultural influences(christianity) in between), but either in one of the families villages or a sacred grove or another "divine" place. This would also rely on were you piece is set, as there are regional differences.

[Lost Eagle]

Hmm.

To try and give you a bit more information it is being based on the Suebi, but in various tribal 'areas'. What I mean by this is that the Suebi have forcefully occupied several of the neighbouring tribes.

I think I may have been looking for a Druid equivalent, which I fear doesn't exist.

So it would be acceptable to stage it in a sacred grove then? But not to Freya, to Frigg instead and have my 'war chief' stage the ceremonies?

It is only fiction but a lack of realism would ruin it.

[Dyēus]

Well, you could use anything Sacred, I just would not use a Shrine or Temple, as this is either out of place or time, so you have a little artistic freedom.
Considering the goddes, you could actually could use both names, the Langobards for example used Frea as name for the the combination of both.
Oh and another point I would like to add, the Odinic cult does seem to have arisen as a the major belief around 50 AD on mainland Europe.
If you have further questions, feel free to ask

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Well the ancient German had no Druids, but Priests. No temples but holy grounds. The gods were a little diffrent then the classic nordic ones like Freya was Frigg maybe or Thor by the Suebi Donar.

[Dr. Croccer]

The Germans had Veledae/Wölwas, old priestesses who sacrificed to the Gods and saw in the future, so they'd be a likely choice. Other than that, the local headman would be a good choice.

Frigg would most likely be called Frijjo in Proto-Germanic.

[Dyēus]

Well, the function of the priest seems to have been fulfilled by the Local Stongmen(or the priest became strongmen due to their influence, I would suggest to read something on their society before the Romans came, very interesting), though that tradition seems to have come to a slow death due to romanisation.
Also, the actual names for the gods at that time are mostly unknown with few exception, because the Romans equated the with what they knew. We could use reconstructed names, but I think we can give a little artistic freedom here, though I would prefer continental ones.
Edit: As Dr. Croccer said, there were of course also seereses, wo often were asked about the future, so maybe you could include one asking the goods if the marriage is acceptable, too.
Edit2: He also gets my unofficial Linguistic Badge of Approval, because he got Holtzmann´s Law right.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

The slow death with the romananization is something i haven't recoqnize till now. To be honest it is quit the opposite. The nordic relgion changed when the had contact with the romans, but it also changed when they had contact with the celts. Before the 2th Century the Celts were the dominant power in that region and specially on the Rhine was a strong mix of cultures. We have hints that the celts were hunter germans to take slaves. After strong movements in the 2th and 1th century BC that changed and they had a lot of respect to the germans.

Whenever too civilization clash together we have a lot of exchange and counter mechanism. It is a bit out of time but for example in the 10th century when the cristians tried to convert nordic people they react to cover christian stuff like Thorsledges as amuletts to have an equialent to the christian cross amuletts.
The Abodrits (Slavs) startet to change their sacred grounds in to temples to create equialents to the Christian Churches.

Rome instead created local double gods like Diana Abnova http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abnoba . Its a local Celto-Romanic godness in southwest germany. Romans also build allways on former sacred grounds like the famous Bath in England which was befoure that a celtic spring sanctum.

You could think of the germanic priests like the roman augurs, which were also nobles and mostly layman. On the other hand we have also real small priest class which lived in sacred areas and served the gods. They might be not that different than the celtic druids and there was clearly celtic influence over the times. The sources of the early times give only hints, like destruction of places, but it seems that they were not that diffrent than the later saxon or slavic ones of the 7th century and later. The problem of sources is that the romans only destroyed some and didn't study them. The later sacred grounds were also forbitten to enter by strangers and it is to assume that the earlier were forbitten to enter too.

[Dyēus]

^Why can´t you see that slow death(of priest and strongmen being nearly indistinguishable)? Due to romanisation(and Roman politics, though of course we should not forget the celtic influence, not only on the Rhine), the whole concept of "Big Men" came to an end, Kingship(in a modern sense) emerged, and the ruler of a tribal confederation probably had better things to do, so a seperate priesthood emerged. You already see that changes towards the end of the Pre-Roman Iron age, as social stratification begins to become notable, before that priest and local strongmen were probably a fluent concept.

[Dr. Croccer]

I don't think kingship as it existed later in the Middle Ages emerged until after the fall of the Roman Empire. Even in the 400s Germanic kings were still largely elected and were heavily reliant on the consent of their peoples.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

I don't think kingship as it existed later in the Middle Ages emerged until after the fall of the Roman Empire. Even in the 400s Germanic kings were still largely elected and were heavily reliant on the consent of their peoples.

Exactly. The problem with the hole king thing is that we have the germanic discription out of roman view and the romans assign their own values in to the germanic ones. Early Roman kingship is a very strange thing anyway and assign this to a ruler like Ariovist can only be result in wrong assumings. Ariovist was more a Warlord of a multiethnological confördaration.

[Dyēus]

Entirely my point, and as I said this tradition(the anthropological concept of "big men" in a segmentary lineage) came to an end through ongoing romanisation(with it the dualism of big men and priests/spiritual, and some were more heavily influences than others, and all in all it was rather slow.
If someone is interested in this whole matter(and the Celtic influence on that matter, I would refer to read read J. Brandts "Jastorf und Latène.
Kultureller Austausch und seine Auswirkungen auf soziopolitische Entwicklungen in der vorrömischen Eisenzeit."

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Entirely my point, and as I said this tradition(the anthropological concept of "big men" in a segmentary lineage) came to an end through ongoing romanisation(with it the dualism of big men and priests/spiritual, and some were more heavily influences than others, and all in all it was rather slow.
If someone is interested in this whole matter(and the Celtic influence on that matter, I would refer to read read J. Brandts "Jastorf und Latène.
Kultureller Austausch und seine Auswirkungen auf soziopolitische Entwicklungen in der vorrömischen Eisenzeit."

On the other hand the typical later kings were that before they had contact with the roman empire. Goths ect. had them before they arrived roman soil or even before they were near it.