Candelarius' Extended Realism Mod for RTRPE 1.7

[Candelarius]

Update: I dramatically changed the skin of the Galatian immitation legionaries now, since all my Galatian skins were starting to look to much alike.

[Dooz]

Update: I dramatically changed the skin of the Galatian immitation legionaries now, since all my Galatian skins were starting to look to much alike.

Hmm... now it looks kind of off-putting. Maybe the shield should be a little closer to the others no? A bit darker, browner...?

[Candelarius]

Hmm... now it looks kind of off-putting. Maybe the shield should be a little closer to the others no? A bit darker, browner...?

I changed it from being brown because it didn't look "immitation legionish" enough. Look at the Armenian and Pontic legionaries, they are pretty colorful like the Romans. I did tone the green down some a bit, but, I don't want to go to dark or again they won't look "heraldic" enough. Remember, these guys are a mix of Gallic and Eastern.

EDIT: Here is a quick screenie of them. As you can see, when the sun hits the shield, it looks pretty green. But, when it is is normal sun, it is pretty dark. I tried darkening the shield, but, unless you make the shield BLACK in the shade, it looks pretty bright green in the sun. Nothing can be done, that's just the game's lighting engine. I think it looks great, though.

[Sarkiss]

is there a reason for Galatians to have naked fanatics?

[Candelarius]

is there a reason for Galatians to have naked fanatics?

Is there a reason you didn't read the historical reference I posted on page 5? :hmmm:

Here, I'll post it again below. This is from a miniature wargaming site, it seems. They site lots of dates, so, it seems accurate from my amateur eyes:

http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba45.html
Galatians (280 - 25 BC)
(DBA 45)
The Galatians (from the Greek "Galatae" or "Gauls") were Celts who migrated southward across the Danubian plains through Illyricum and Pannonia to settle in central asia minor (i.e. modern Turkey). Perhaps due to this migration through open country, they were known to fight in tighter formations than their western counterparts, which made them vulnerable in bad going.

The Galatian army list begins properly in 279 BC, when the Galatian host stopped its migration in northern Macedonia and debated whether to continue west or move south into Greece. A faction under the chieftain Brennus split off and headed south to sack the temple at Delphi before being driven back with heavy losses. The remnants rejoined the other division of Galatians under Leonorius and Luterius who had moved into Thrace. In 278 B.C., two groups of 20,000 Galatians crossed over into Asia Minor where they were engaged in service to King Nicomedes I of Bithynia, helping to suppress a rebellion by his younger brother. As a reward for their services, the Galatians receved a large tract of land in central Asia minor (in modern Turkey) known henceforth as Galatia.

At this point, the Galatians consisted of three tribes centered around three towns: the Tolistboboii (Pessinus), the Tectosages (Ancyra, or modern Ankara) and the Trocmi (Tavium). Each tribe divided its territory into canton-like tetrarchies, ruled by a tetrarch supported by a judge and a general. Until the imposition of Roman-supported Kings, Galatia was ruled by a council of tetrarchs and by a 300 man Senate that met periodically at Drynemeton, near Ancyra.

Once firmly established, the Galatians commenced a series of marauding expeditions in all directions that made them the scourge of Asia Minor. Antiochus, the Macedonian successor king of Syria earned the title "Soter" (Savior) by repelling Galatian raiders. King Attlaus I of Pergaman (with Roman encouragement) was able to confine them to Galatia proper in a series of campaigns in 235-232 AD.

Thereafter, the warlike Galatians increasingly sought outlets through service as mercenaries. At Magnesia (180 BC) Galatians fought for King Antiochus of Syria against the Romans. Following the Roman victory, a Republican army under the Consul Manlius entered Galatia, defeating them in two battles (see Livy, XXXVIII, xvi. and I Mach., viii.). In 64 BC, the tetrarch Deiotarus fought for Rome against King Mithrades I of Pontus, and was rewarded by being named King of the Galatians by the Romans. Deiotarus later raised two immitation legions of Galatians who fought for Cicero in Roman service in Cilicia in 51 BC. In the Civil War, the Galatians supported Pompey with troops at the battle of Pharsala (48 BC).

Following Pompey's defeat, Mark Anthony placed the tetrarch Amyntas on the throne of Galatia, which by that time included not only Galatia proper, but also portions of Lyesonia, Pamphylia, Pisidia and Phyrgia (including the towns of Antioch, Iconium, Lystra, and Derbe). A Galatian legion under command of the Roman Domitius was routed in battle against the army of Pharnaces of Pontus in the Alexandrian War (40 BC). A Galatian contingent joined Anthony at Actium (31 BC), but they changed sides at a critical point, offering their allegiance to Octavian (Augustus Caesar). As a reward, Amyntas continued as king of the Galatians until he was ambushed and killed in 25 BC. At that point, Galatia was officially absorbed as a Roman province, ending this DBA army list.

Enemies
The Galatians fought the Thracians (#27), Macedonian Early Successors (#40), Early and Later Seleucids (#40a&b), Pergamene (#48), and Pontic (#58).

Missing from the list are the Polybian Romans (#46b) representing the invading army of the Consul Gnaeus Manlius Vulso, following Magnesia.

Army composition
2x LCh and 1x SCh or 2x 4Bd and 1Ps Galatian leaders and retainers on Light Chariots, along with a four horse scythed chariot in the early period . Alternatively, Galatian foot armed and equipped with captured armor as imitation legionaries in the later period. Two legions of imitation legionaries were combined and enrolled as Legio XXII Deitariana when Galatia was absorbed by Rome in 25 BC.
2 x 3Cv Athenian and Thessalian cavalry who allied with the Galatians during their invasion of northern Greece in 279 BC. May be represented as mounted Galatian leaders and retainers in the later period.
7 x 4Wb Galatian warband, who were noted for their fanatical fervor, indifference to wounds, and distain for armour. Nude Galatians were recorded fighting with the Seleucids against Rome as late as 189 BC.

Not reflected in the list are Greek, Cappadocian and/or Paphlagonian slingers and light infantry (i.e. psiloi) who fought with the Galatians in the earlier period, but not in association with later 1st Century BC armies that contained imitation legionaries.

Tactics
A warband army with cavalry and optional blades makes an interesting combination. The traditional warband tactic is to charge home against enemy foot and worry about the flanks later. But with cavalry and light chariots, the early Galatians have plenty of mobility to protect the flanks, or can use their mounted troops to prepare the way for a warband charge. The scythed chariot provides an interesting weapon to throw against the Macedonian sucessor phalanx. Alternatively, the imitation blades can force enemy pikes into double ranks, exposing their shortened lines to overlaps and flanks.

One thing is clear, this is not a rough terrain army. With only one optional element of Psiloi, the Galatians lack troops capable of contesting the bad going with Thracian peltasts, Seleucid thureophoroi and other light troops. The best bet is to stick to the good going as much as possible.

[Sarkiss]

sorry, didnt spot that in the first place.
hope it didnt make you upset or angry

[Candelarius]

sorry, didnt spot that in the first place.
hope it didnt make you upset or angry

Nope, not at all. I only get upset or angry when people don't flush the toilets at work.

[Darth Caesar]

the galatians will probably be the only barbarian nation in RTR i will ever play with, I hate the barbs in RTR

[Candelarius]

the galatians will probably be the only barbarian nation in RTR i will ever play with, I hate the barbs in RTR

I like the barbs in RTR. But, be warned, the Galatians start out in a difficult position. They need to very quickly capture Nicomedia and Bithynia (the two rebel factions to the west), but, both of those rebel cities are tough nuts to crack. I just got my *ss handed to me by the rebels in Nicomedia, and I had outnumbered them 2 to 1! Darn armored hoplites against my poor half naked light infantry...

[Darth Caesar]

how long til its finalised because it sounds like you are still testing, surely it cant be that long

[Candelarius]

how long til its finalised because it sounds like you are still testing, surely it cant be that long

Sure it can. How many starting units does a faction need? How much money? How will it impact other factions? What will the AI do? How long can the faction last with x amount of units or cash? All these things need to be determined. The mod has long been "finalized", it just needs balanced. Considering I'm a one man show and have only limited time each day, it takes time to do things. I'm not waiting to finish my mod, I'm waiting for the RTRPE 1.7 patch before I released it.

[limes]

Hi Candelarius. Nice ideas. Hmmm. Very nice. There is still the same problem - when the mod will be released and why not now .
I'm waiting for 1.7 too. Good luck in your further work.

limes

[Sarkiss]

here is a pic of the Bactrians in 206BC during the period of vassal state. the warrior on the right is a Galatian.

[Candelarius]

Very nice. His arms and armor are consistent with what RTR did for the Gauls, certainly, though he looks nothing like the Galatian Swordsmen unit that so much of my unit roster is based on, which was also developed by the RTR team, of course. I think the RTR team tried to go with a Gauls-meet-Easterners approach for their swordsmen. Their bronze helmets and chainmail, though, are consistent with armor of this time frame. Keep in mind that all such illustrations, just like my mod, are based on artistic expression, since we have no surviving examples of their attire, besides paintings and metal items.

I would really like to have a model and texture of that gallic guy, but, I doubt I'll find anyone to do it for me. He would make a nice replacement of my light infantry unit, which is just based on the Gallic Warband unit. Alas, I have no modelling skills whatsoever or I would make one myself. Thanks anyway, though, that's a great image.

[Sarkiss]

yep, would be a nice and unique replacement.
here is some Seleucids II BC


wish i knew how to do the modells and skin them.

[johnhughthom]

Id just like to say thanks for this Mod. I didnt think Id ever want to use the Romans again but its a lot more interesting now. I dont mind if the next version takes a while as I think Ill be playing my current game for a while.

[Darth Caesar]

whoooh, candelarius, I didnt want to get on the bad side,I have a question, how many units are left as I know that 255 is the max so how much have you used?, cos I was thinking of adding some units from other mods to yours for myself

thanks

[Candelarius]

whoooh, candelarius, I didnt want to get on the bad side,I have a question, how many units are left as I know that 255 is the max so how much have you used?, cos I was thinking of adding some units from other mods to yours for myself

thanks

Bad side? Not at all! I didn't mean to sound poopy, so, no bad feelings. The only person on my bad side is Sarkiss, but only because he insists I add onagers and trojan horses to my mod...

Anyway, I just did a count, and the word "type" appears 251 times in my descr_model_battle.txt file. So, you have three or four spots left, I think.

[Darth Caesar]

thanks, now with the files, what do I have to do so that I can add units to your mod for my self, what files do I have to move and edit, I looked about for a guide and there more concerned about changing ownershp, thanks

[Candelarius]

You can definately find tutorials on how to do this, that's how I learned! The best ones I have found are at the org site, look for "how to add units", etc. But, it takes a pretty good knowledge of modding to do this. You basically need to add the unit to export_descr_units, add the unit to the recruitment pool in export_descr_buildings, add the reference to the unit name which much match the unit info card to export_descr_unit_enums, and then add the corresponding entry to export_units in data\text\, add the unit info card and unit card to the correct folders, if the units are mercs the unit cards go in the merc folder, if not they go in the faction folder, you then need to add their model and texture references to descr_model_battle, and add the appropriate textures and gloss tga files to the data\rtr\model_units\ folder...and probably some things that I didn't think up off the top of my head. But, to be brutally honest, it is way more involving than I would like to get into in this thread. Check out the tutorials here at at the org, and post your specific questions in the modding forums. It takes a lot of time and patience...did I mention time?