Difference in ai for shogun vanilla and fots

**Sun Jetzu** · August 26, 2012, 10:51 AM

Okay so I play shogun 2 and the enemy will camp attack when I am least defended or guarded and will implement some of sun tzu's rules for war. Either on campaign map or battlefield. It also starts that way somewhat in fots ( witch was the first one I got and just fell in love, prefer guns) but now I'm far in my aizu republic campaign and my enemies and enemie battles seem less thought out and more frantic. If I camp out on a hill they will always rush up with spear and gun in the middle and get shot to pieces. They won't camp, and they won't try and flank me unless there's cav then they "try" and run around. I only find it kinda hard against elite units an cannon but even then... Lol death to them all. And on the campaign map they basically never ambush and they just cOme right at me with levy infantry and spear levy. I play on normal campaign and hard battle because for aizu hard campaign seemed like the kiss of death. I guess I'm trying to see if anyone else has seen thIs and I wanna know. Does the ai in Japan know how to fight with open gun battles? Is the ai weaker in fots?

**Mimoxx** · August 27, 2012, 04:36 AM

Rise of samurai has the best AI , also the hardest campaign

**Jackster** · August 27, 2012, 06:09 AM

Fots AI seem to do naval invasion way more.

**Sun Jetzu** · August 27, 2012, 08:44 AM

I havnt tried rots too much yet cuz I would like to beat a campaign on either shogun or fall, but I heard its way more political and diPlomatic, it's true fots does naval invasions way more than others, I feel shogun vanilla uses agents more

**Dileos** · August 27, 2012, 04:40 PM

I just picked up RoTS a few days ago and both the campaign and the battles seem a bit more difficult, while FoTS seems a bit easier in both departments; this is using vanilla Shogun 2 as a judging point.

Pushing your influence into other neighboring provinces while simultaneously trying to keep your neighbors happy enough to keep them from zerg rushing your ass is isn't easy. I tend to find myself using agents a lot more, which hurts your wallet pretty badly over time. Battle AI seems to constantly overpower me in RoTS for some reason. I've got something pathetic like a 25% win ratio going in battles where we're at even strength or I'm at a slight disadvantage. I'm not quite used to the unit types either, so this may be a contributing factor. I understand that levy units are pretty weak, but I'm not sure exactly how weak they are compared to attendants. Or how attendants compare to samurai for that matter.

FoTS has relatively simple campaign AI who seem to base their entire opinion of you around weather you are pro or anti-Imperial. I tend to play Shogunate clans and we essentially turn half of Japan into a giant pro-shogunate "deathblob" every game. Battle AI gets subjected to rather hilarious defeats in nearly every engagement as well. But I guess when you're fighting katana kaichi while the USMC provides them with covering fire and naval artillery is raining down on your head it can be pretty difficult to not die horribly.

**Humble Warrior** · August 27, 2012, 04:48 PM

When FOTS was released, it also got a huge Patch. This patch retofitted to everything, including the AI in the vanilla game too. Now obviously they`ll be differences due to the fact that guns and artillery are less in vanilla, but basically, the AI`s should be the same. There may be slight differences for these things.

Someone correct me (like a Dev) if I`m wrong. I have not yet played a full campaign on vanilla to test fully/

**~~weirdoascensor~~** · August 28, 2012, 01:48 AM

...It maybe caused by the rule "If The Enemy have superior Artillery, rush him" behaviour coded into the BAI...Most Likely, you field more artillery than CAI do, since Artillery, even in FoTS, needs quite high building prequisite.

FoTS battle_entities are slower...Shogun units could easily outrun routing FoTS units...but I like the slower battles...

The BAI also make lines poorly...Musket and Rifle Lines in the center tends to clump into a blob and their wings rarely flanks...I like to flank Their Line, and make crossfires using my Rifles..altough Melee Infantry and Cavalry are as deadly as ever... .

RoTS...I've tried twice in Hard...and beaten.
Its Harder than Sengoku Jidai...and Politically more Complex...Influence and Alllegiance matters...is allegiance in RoTS locked? no conversion?

Levies? They Sucks. They Rout in Seconds.

**Sun Jetzu** · August 28, 2012, 09:29 AM

yea rise of the samurai was a complete different experience than its predisesors, but i enjoyed shogun 2 even more. and i love fall of the samurai, i just wish armies stood a chance against me in that game. The only way i have trouble is if the enemie brings alotta cav or melee and uses themm effectivley and then thats when i find a challenge. But even when i dont have art, they rush my republic line infatry and infantry de marines while im positioned on a hill, im like ooookkaayy. When they have art, they sometimes forget to even unlimber and fire for a while, one time they used it effectivley aiming at my u.s marines and routing them...those poor poor marines...
I think battles in shogun 2 are way harder to be honest, ai always seems to get an army of naginata sam, while i still have ashigaru

**kanett** · August 30, 2012, 01:38 PM

a lot of bug in fots which ruin the good game

**Jackster** · August 30, 2012, 07:38 PM

BAI rush you when you have arty, though it would immediately stop if you run out of ammo.

**IGdood** · September 01, 2012, 12:42 PM

But when they rush me, they reach my line all fatigued and my kachi proceed to kill them all.

**Humble Warrior** · September 01, 2012, 06:10 PM

Usually I find the FOTS BAI pretty good.

I did have a battle recently when the AI attacked and we both had one set of arty. I had naval arty too. The BAI had reinforcements coming which gave him a much bigger army than mine. I decided to set up quickly in range and started with my arty ready. I looked for his artillery that should have been firing, but nothing, so I aimed my arty at his reinforcements moving across the field to join his other army.

I hit his troops a lot, then when still getting no enemy Arty fire back, decided to use my naval arty on him. I finally ran out of artillery shells.

Through all of this the bAI proceeded to join up and arrange his troops, only slightly stopping for the naval barrage. Then nothing.

I waited. nothing. I sped up time and kept waiting for 15 minutes. He wouldn`t move. I didn`t want to move, no way could I attack his number, my best bet was to defend. While I was waiting (cos I`m stubborn like that), I decided to withdraw my spent artillery. the moment i did that his entire army started mobilising.... I stopped my arty from retreating.

He stopped. I sent it away - his army started mobilising again. So I sent my artillery off the map and to my surprise he unlimbered his artillery that had been hidden in the trees all this time and started firing, battering the heck out of my men. I thought, screw this, and retreated.

**IGdood** · September 01, 2012, 07:30 PM

So it's playing the patience game with you. Damn. I thought it was just the whole Siege AI "Refusal to attack" bug happening on a field battle.

**ccgr1121** · September 02, 2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Humble Warrior

Usually I find the FOTS BAI pretty good.

I did have a battle recently when the AI attacked and we both had one set of arty. I had naval arty too. The BAI had reinforcements coming which gave him a much bigger army than mine. I decided to set up quickly in range and started with my arty ready. I looked for his artillery that should have been firing, but nothing, so I aimed my arty at his reinforcements moving across the field to join his other army.

I hit his troops a lot, then when still getting no enemy Arty fire back, decided to use my naval arty on him. I finally ran out of artillery shells.

Through all of this the bAI proceeded to join up and arrange his troops, only slightly stopping for the naval barrage. Then nothing.

I waited. nothing. I sped up time and kept waiting for 15 minutes. He wouldn`t move. I didn`t want to move, no way could I attack his number, my best bet was to defend. While I was waiting (cos I`m stubborn like that), I decided to withdraw my spent artillery. the moment i did that his entire army started mobilising.... I stopped my arty from retreating.

He stopped. I sent it away - his army started mobilising again. So I sent my artillery off the map and to my surprise he unlimbered his artillery that had been hidden in the trees all this time and started firing, battering the heck out of my men. I thought, screw this, and retreated.

That's pretty interesting. Can I ask what the battle difficulty was, purely out of my own selfish interest?

I wonder what would have happened if you had rushed them?

**~~weirdoascensor~~** · September 03, 2012, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Humble Warrior

Usually I find the FOTS BAI pretty good.

I did have a battle recently when the AI attacked and we both had one set of arty. I had naval arty too. The BAI had reinforcements coming which gave him a much bigger army than mine. I decided to set up quickly in range and started with my arty ready. I looked for his artillery that should have been firing, but nothing, so I aimed my arty at his reinforcements moving across the field to join his other army.

I hit his troops a lot, then when still getting no enemy Arty fire back, decided to use my naval arty on him. I finally ran out of artillery shells.

Through all of this the bAI proceeded to join up and arrange his troops, only slightly stopping for the naval barrage. Then nothing.

I waited. nothing. I sped up time and kept waiting for 15 minutes. He wouldn`t move. I didn`t want to move, no way could I attack his number, my best bet was to defend. While I was waiting (cos I`m stubborn like that), I decided to withdraw my spent artillery. the moment i did that his entire army started mobilising.... I stopped my arty from retreating.

He stopped. I sent it away - his army started mobilising again. So I sent my artillery off the map and to my surprise he unlimbered his artillery that had been hidden in the trees all this time and started firing, battering the heck out of my men. I thought, screw this, and retreated.

Sounds like Hardcoded Rule unintentionally ruining a potentially good BAI to me...

**Lord Baal** · September 04, 2012, 08:42 AM

This is the wrong thread general! Shamefur Dispray!!!

**Jackster** · September 04, 2012, 10:21 PM

lol, so I found some hilarious exploits on the fact the BAI would stop rushing you as soon as you tell your crew to drop the siege engines. (Only works for arty pieces that can be dropped, so wont work with Parrot or Armstrong guns)

I have a missile heavy stack of Bows, Matchlocks and Shimazu Heavy guns plus a Nanban Cannon attack an AI stack. The BAI rushs forward and I tell the cannon crew to drop the cannon and get away. Then the BAI stopped his whole army, in the range of my guns and bows and run backwards, taking some really heavy casualty along the way. Then it retreats out of range and form up his units.

I tell my crew to pick up their guns and they rush to my line again, rinse and repeat. I ended up wiping that very high end stack (All Samurai with 2 hero units.) with little losses.

**General Maximus** · September 06, 2012, 03:44 AM

The campaign AI of RoTS is the best. Enemies work hard together (first time in a TW game) to diplomatically isolate the player. They try to make allies with their supporter clans and send in agents which actually attack the player.

But there are few naval invasions. Seems no problem to me, since enemy is worried that I will wage a blitzkrieg on him from land if he puts all of his army on ships.

RoTS agents are a total blitzkrieg. I have seen for the first time that AI can actually use agents with efficiency.

I was exploited (literally, raped

) by a Junsatsushi who stood on the crossways of my clan. He acted like a choke point. When my agents tried to move, he arrested them all and executed some more. He bribed away the reinforcements who were marching to fill the ranks against his ally. Then a monk came and demoralized another reinforcement stack. After a few turns, my Daimyo departed on a campaign against Minamoto with a huge army. He was harassed all the way and was in bad state when arriving. He was assassinated next turn.