Irish Identity, Celtic or Spanish?

[War lord]

The most Spanish thing about Ireland is Eamon De Valera's made up father.

[Vaskill]

Interesting replies, I should have probably put in "Culture" instead of Identity, oh well. Thanks for clearing that up for me Irelandeb. I've always wondered why the English "well apart from their natural dislike of the Irish" called the Irish "Black Irish"?

[War lord]

Interesting replies, I should have probably put in "Culture" instead of Identity, oh well. Thanks for clearing that up for me Irelandeb. I've always wondered why the English "well apart from their natural dislike of the Irish" called the Irish "Black Irish"?

Probably from a popular misconception that the majority of Irish people have pale skin and Red hair, therefore any Irish person who has darker skin or hair must have some other race in them. It's rubbish of course, any connection is so far back that it's meaningless. You may as well call Asians African.

[Ferrets54]

Interesting replies, I should have probably put in "Culture" instead of Identity, oh well. Thanks for clearing that up for me Irelandeb. I've always wondered why the English "well apart from their natural dislike of the Irish" called the Irish "Black Irish"?

The idea that the English have a "natural" dislike for the Irish is a worthless stereotype.

[CiviC]

Genetic heritage=/=cultural heritage

Ethnic identity is cultural, not genetic, even the myths (more or less true) about common origins of an ethnic group are a cultural aspect, not a scientific genetic one.

[irelandeb]

Interesting replies, I should have probably put in "Culture" instead of Identity, oh well. Thanks for clearing that up for me Irelandeb. I've always wondered why the English "well apart from their natural dislike of the Irish" called the Irish "Black Irish"?

I've never heard of black Irish anywhere except the internet so it's not common in Ireland.

Tan is a slang word for non-white people but it's also a common derogatory word for English. This may be something similar. I know both Protestants and Catholics have referred to each other as "black", in the sense of being heritical like "black magic". I also know during the troubles police on both sides of the border were "black bastards".

[War lord]

I've never heard of black Irish anywhere except the internet so it's not common in Ireland.

Tan is a slang word for non-white people but it's also a common derogatory word for English. This may be something similar. I know both Protestants and Catholics have referred to each other as "black", in the sense of being heritical like "black magic". I also know during the troubles police on both sides of the border were "black bastards".

That's a reference to The Black and Tan Auxiliaries because their uniforms were a mix of RIC black and Army Tan. Nothing to do with skin or magic.

[Vaskill]

The idea that the English have a "natural" dislike for the Irish is a worthless stereotype.

Aye, my bad I more or less was referencing to the 19th century and Medieval times. I should have stated that but oh well.

[Ferrets54]

Aye, my bad I more or less was referencing to the 19th century and Medieval times. I should have stated that but oh well.

Even then, there wouldn't have been a natural dislike.

[ivan_the_terrible]

3. Tribes such as the Welsh Silures (Known to be of Hispanic extraction)

Has this been at all conclusively established? From memory it was some ancient historian who suggested that....

EDIT: I was right: it's from Tacitus' Agricola. He bases it on nothing more than superficial physical traits. Besides, he doesn't even pretend that it's more than a hypothesis.

[Red Hue]

Really, I think this is a bit of a red herring.

The old tails tell that the Milesians came from Spain but there were people in Ireland when they got there. They met the Tuatha Dé Danann who were also Gaels but there were people before them. Doesn’t anyone remember the Fir Bolg?

Wouldn’t they have likely been pre-Indo-European the same as the people we now call the Basques?

O’Rehilly tried to associate everyone with known peoples. The original source was Lebor Gabála Érenn. Written down at the earliest in the 7th century, after the arrival of Christianity. If any of it concedes with fact it is amazing, from that far date. It was written by a priest and has a lot of biblical tie ins.

We think Ireland was settled in about 8,000 BC. It was already an island by that time, where Britain was still joined to the mainland.

It moved to the bronze age with the arrival of new people, (Bell beaker People) in 2500 BC. They likely came from around the Tagus estuary of Portugal. They didn’t occupy the whole of the island but left margins in the far west and south west.

It is sometimes cited as a proto-Celtic culture. Then in 500BC arrives the iron age with a different people. This time from language and culture it is safe to assume they were Celtic. Their numbers do not seem huge so it is assumed they formed a ruling elite.

It does roughly correspond to the book of invasions. The people before the Milesians speaking a similar language, the Fir Bolg being pushed to the west. But evidence seems to point to the new people arriving in the north east rather than the far south of the island.

This is also a first study. If DNA analysis is like any other branch of medical science it will change with each new study. Each paper will have a new and different conclusion. Just keep watching.