MDMA in therapy

[alexanderswift]

One experience is not every experience and psychological dependency hinges on a great number of factors. It isn't the drug itself that they'd be getting addicted to, but the high. It could be avoided with careful screening of patients and very careful dosage control however.

But yes, use on PTSD sufferers is fully legitimate and ought to be okayed.

[Tom Cruise HAWK]

Anti depressants increase serotonin to the brain so we are already as a society giving MDMA serotonin to the brain of a lot of people.
I saw a show where a guy was dying of cancer and xtc helped him and his wife except things

[chilon]

Ecstasy is MDMA in theory. However, as you said, Ecstasy pills are rarely made up entirely of MDMA and frequently have none whatsoever.

Well I would like to object to the "rarely" and the "frequently" adverbs but then I have no idea what things are like today. Certainly 20 years ago if you went to an underground and asked for ecstasy there was only one thing you were asking for (MDMA) and only one thing you were going to get (pure MDMA). I am shocked that slang has changed so much that asking for an "ecstasy" pill means you would frequently get something with none at all. I guess there are other empathogens as nutsack mentioned so that could be part of it.

[alexanderswift]

Well I would like to object to the "rarely" and the "frequently" adverbs but then I have no idea what things are like today. Certainly 20 years ago if you went to an underground and asked for ecstasy there was only one thing you were asking for (MDMA) and only one thing you were going to get (pure MDMA). I am shocked that slang has changed so much that asking for an "ecstasy" pill means you would frequently get something with none at all. I guess there are other empathogens as nutsack mentioned so that could be part of it.

Well, in my experience, you'd never buy an Ecstasy tablet and expect it to be pure MDMA. Each pill and batch is going to have different make ups but it was very frequent to have no MDMA and no clue what you were getting. The only MDMA on the street I've encountered was unpressed powder, which was often thought to be impure as well.

I think MDMA has been reduced because there are other cheaper variants of it. It's been a while since I've looked it up but http://www.ecstasydata.org/ has lab test results of various different Ecstasy pills.
Other drugs (Mostly stimulants) like Benocyclidine, MDA, Caffeine, TFMPP, BZP and Methamphetamine show up in a lot of pills in place of MDMA. While of course a lot of tablets still contain MDMA, most of the time it's with other substances and not entirely pure.

[God]

MDMA in power form has become more popular now and is (supposedly) purer. That's the biggest danger with the drug probably, you don't know what's getting mixed in with it.

[Nutsack]

Most hydrochloride MDMA as far as I know is often not higher than 86% pure. I've seen ads for a lot of MDMA and they often all list the product as being 86% pure, and I asked myself why is that? I'm just guessing that it's hard or not profitable to make MDMA be 99% pure unless you have an industrial lab. That leaves a question though, what is the byproduct?

Someone mentioned that there are probably a lot of other empathogens, and that is true. I tried another weaker empathogen called 4-MEC, but there are many more and they are constantly being discovered. The newest one I heard about is called 5-IT, which is still legal in I think all countries around the world. Other empathogens are mephedrone, methylone, etc, and the list just goes on and on.

These other substances I mentioned are however not primarily empathogens, because they are also cathinones or amphetamines like MDMA. Yes, MDMA is an amphetamine, but with a small difference in molecular make up which makes all the difference in effect.

Still, I know we now have Serotonin re-uptake inhibitors to treat illnesses like PTSD and depression. We used to use benzodiazepines for these purposes. The problem is that these drugs do work, but what they do is make you not care. THey make you forget about your problems and move on. While that might sound good to someone who needs to move on with their life, for a therapist I would actually believe they would rather like for their patient to face their problems instead and deal with them in confrontation. THis is what MDMA does, it forces you to remember things as they were, it enhances all your memories and brings back the emotions you once felt during moments of trauma or hardship. After reliving this, the drug actually allows you to accept things and move on, to heal the psychological damage that has been made onto you. This is the main reason I think we need to introduce empathogens into psychiatry, because as of right now all we are doing is making our mentally ill patients into pill-zombies who wander around brainless. I've myself been taken to a mental hospital where I stayed for three or four days, and I know first hand that they just give people numbing drugs to make them forget or stop caring about who they are or what they are doing there.

MDMA's therapeutic value is vastly underestimated, partly because though nearly all of the evidence is anecdotal due to it becoming illegal before its use in therapy was properly documented. Its properties allow it to be a suitable adjunct to all kinds of therapy--increased willingness to communicate, openness, empathy/love and forgiveness can be beneficial in couples or family therapy; diminished fear and anxiety, and acceptance make it extremely valuable in treating anxiety disorders (it was recently approved for a trial involving patients with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder--the study concluded in 2008 with promising results; a study involving anxiety in cancer patients is currently underway); increased pleasure and awareness, forgiveness of self or others, diminished insecurities and feelings of comfort and well being can help those who suffer from mood disorders.

Alexander Shulgin wrote in PIHKAL about MDMA's value as a therapeutic tool:
Quote:
What does MDMA do that could be beneficial to a patient? First, it powerfully suppresses emotional fear, to such an extent that people under the influence are often able to openly discuss deeply traumatic events, such as rape, suicide attempts, etc. MDMA produces complete emotional honesty with yourself. Second, it is a moderately powerful stimulant, not simply allowing the patient to sit there indifferently, but prodding them to examine and discuss their lives. Animal experiments also indicate that MDMA enhances learning, allowing what is discovered and experienced during the MDMA state to strongly affect and stay with the patient long after the session.

The net result is a patient who, for a few hours, is almost perfectly primed to grow as a person. Their fears are gone. They feel strong, at peace, and able to handle almost anything emotionally. They're also hyperactive and extremely talkative, eager to explore ideas and issues and share their thoughts. The 'hyper-focused' MDMA state can also allow the therapist to steer the conversation into otherwise highly charged topics...they don't have to tease the story out of them; the patient is truly ready to talk about what's on their mind. And finally, the experience seems to allow a high degree of incorporation of what they learn about themselves back into their normal lives.
It is important to keep in mind that while for some, MDMA alone can be enough to allow the alleviation of depression or to stimulate the reconnection between a husband and a wife, in the context of clinical therapy it is not viewed as a panacea. MDMA, like any other drug, will not automatically allow someone to come to terms with a traumatic incident, it can only make it easier to do so. It can put the patient in a more receptive, forgiving, or happier state, but it is just as necessary that the patient desire to get better and that the therapist continue to do whatever necessary to help them achieve their goal.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...php?title=MDMA

I just thought of something strange, but true. Technically, you can make someone love you with MDMA. The molecule, when administered actually causes your brain to release oxytocin, a chemical involved in feelings of love. Oxytocin is normally released when for example having sex, making love in any other way or actually simply by hugging your mother. The signal-chemical oxytocin is actually the reason we love our families, and if you do MDMA with anyone you are almost guaranteed to bond! It could as the article said be good if you have children together with someone and you both want to try to keep the family intact. Or if you are a completely hideous and forever alone guy that has conjured an extremely evil plan to satisfy your selfish lust for love and human contact

[chilon]

Still, I know we now have Serotonin re-uptake inhibitors to treat illnesses like PTSD and depression. We used to use benzodiazepines for these purposes.

Its been a while since I took a class on this but I seem to remember to benzos + empathogens is always a bad combo.

The problem is that these drugs do work, but what they do is make you not care. THey make you forget about your problems and move on. While that might sound good to someone who needs to move on with their life, for a therapist I would actually believe they would rather like for their patient to face their problems instead and deal with them in confrontation. This is what MDMA does, it forces you to remember things as they were, it enhances all your memories and brings back the emotions you once felt during moments of trauma or hardship. After reliving this, the drug actually allows you to accept things and move on, to heal the psychological damage that has been made onto you. This is the main reason I think we need to introduce empathogens into psychiatry, because as of right now all we are doing is making our mentally ill patients into pill-zombies who wander around brainless. I've myself been taken to a mental hospital where I stayed for three or four days, and I know first hand that they just give people numbing drugs to make them forget or stop caring about who they are or what they are doing there.

This is an interesting take. I'm not sure I totally agree with this but I don't totally disagree either. Its really situationally dependent. There certainly is a precedent for empathogens in psychiatry and the only reason they aren't there is the whole wasteful "war on drugs" BS that for some reason, some disconnected politicians still support (for special interest $$ reasons).

[Nutsack]

[QUOTE=chilon;11898118]Its been a while since I took a class on this but I seem to remember to benzos + empathogens is always a bad combo./QUOTE]

I never mentioned that they should be used together like a cocktail?

This is an interesting take. I'm not sure I totally agree with this but I don't totally disagree either. Its really situationally dependent. There certainly is a precedent for empathogens in psychiatry and the only reason they aren't there is the whole wasteful "war on drugs" BS that for some reason, some disconnected politicians still support (for special interest $$ reasons).

I think the war on drugs might be continuing partly because of special interest but not entirely so. The most important reason in my opinion is because of public opinion, and as a politician you are not going to win support or elections by advocating the legalization of anything. Ron Paul is about the only politician who has gotten far while being relaxed on drug laws, although he didn't advocate it, just argued that the federal government has no business with drugs. Which in my opinion is true, the federal government should stay out of narcotics.

As long as people believe that marijuana, amphetamines, cocaine and heroin is destroying our society - and the best way to deal with that is by police force then we will have the current problems we face today. The strains put on our society today as a result of our drug war is largely unseen because we haven't seen the alternative for over 80 years - a over-sized police force, overcrowded prisons, rampant drug epidemics with lacking medical assistance and education, larger court and judicial system and corruption spread throughout. It is in my opinion that our society is dealing with the drug problem poorly, because instead of confronting the issue we would rather brush it under the rug and pretend like it never happened. Putting people in prison and jails is not a long-term strategy and is costing us a lot, in fact in my opinion the entire reason why the new Afghan government is failing is because of drug prohibition in the West. As we make anything with demand illegal, the value of the product will skyrocket as we have seen with heroin, and production will move to poorer countries like Afghanistan which now accounts for like 90% of the worlds heroin. That flow of money largely goes to gangsters and terrorist organizations like the taliban, which in turn bribe all ranks of government and corrupts the whole system and causes a failed state. So far the only "government" who has been able to completely stop heroin production was the taliban themselves, because of the totalitarian control and fear they can have upon their subjects.

It's not only Afghanistan that is becoming destroyed by the drug wars, just take a look at what is going on in Mexico.

So yes there are many reasons why the drug war is stupid, mostly because it promotes international organized crime but for many other reasons as well.

So what is the solution? Decriminalization? In my opinion decriminalization wouldn't solve all the problems but it's a start. Decriminalization doesn't deal with the organized crime side of the situation. There would still be a huge profit margin involved in smuggling and sales and a black, untaxed market which is only regulated by the amount of violence it contains. In my opinion legalizing everything is the best choice because it is also our own responsibilities as human beings that determine who we are and what we are going to do with out lives. A law can't take away that choice, only punish you for it. If you legalized every drug don't believe that everyone will soon start taking more and more drugs just because of that, because that is simply not true and it is very naive to think that the only thing between you and your decision to take drugs is a law. It is like saying that the only thing between you and murder is a law. Consider that there are many more things between you and a drug, such as moral and social responsibilities, school, jobs, etc. There are many reasons you do not consume narcotic drugs and a law is not going to change peoples decisions that fast. There is even a real example of this in the Netherlands.

What needs to happen is a complete reassessment of the whole issue but the fact is that it's not going to happen. People don't care enough or don't give a rats ass about it. That's why I call the drug war as a way of sweeping the problems under the rug and pretending it never happened. People basically think "Just lock em' up, throw them in jail so I don't have to worry about it". That is why prison is such a lonely place, because it is basically the place where undesirables go and sulk like little kids in school go to a corner of shame if they did something wrong.