Gripes with the Peter Jackson LotR and Hobbit films

[avenging angel]

and yes having those "cheat ghosts" was a terrible idea but ok, (in teh film), you have em. Use them. Dont disband them. Take them all the way to the black gate.. Hell force your way through with them, knock on Barad dur and moon sauron.. He cant do anything... You have INVINCIBLE GHOSTS....

[Ngugi]

Was i the only one at that point that actually were on the orcs side? Afterall they fought so hard, why shouldnt they eat, rape and pilliage.. Being an orc sucks most of teh time so they have to have fun somehow....

[Incredible Bulk]

Meshing nazghul and wraiths

[Rickilicious]

1- elves at helm's deep

2- too few rohirrim at helm's deep

3- orcs and uruk hai too powerful

4- plate armor

5- plate armor is like paper armor

6- faramir falling to the ring

7- denethor as a mad idiot

8- army of the dead at pelennor fields

9- orcs breaking into minas tirith

10- the witch kind "defeating" gandalf

11- arwen instead of glorfindel at the river

12- narsil/anduril given in rohan instead of imladris

13- the ents initially refusing to go to war

I will build off this..

14-Shire war was left out

15-Galadriel was the fairest person in middle earth and they made her ugly and corrupt

16-Frodo never made sam leave(50% of the damn story is about sam and frodo having an unbreakable bond)

17-Boromir/Aragorn are supposed to be huge in stature, kingly, stout and complete ing badasses.

18-Boromir was not an evil person, and only fell to the ring's malice for a brief moment right before he was slain, nor faramir(who also married eowyn which was only mentioned with a glance at each other for a half a second)

19- Boromir actually respected Aragorn, not despised him for being the heir of elendil

20-The arwen aragorn story was wayyyyyyy too overplayed. Elrond would only let aragorn marry arwen if he united middle earth. Before the movie, they were already betrothed.

21-Gollum was never 'good'. He was just sworn under the ring, but always had the master plan to take them through shelob's lair.

22-The only part legolas and gimli played in the books was that they were friends and were loyal to each other, despite being a dwarf and elf. Not a dwarf as comic relief, nor an elf as a hero.

23-There were a lot more eagles in the books

24-Gandalf's fight with the balrog and the flight back up never ending stairs below kazadum was not mentioned. Just him swinging his sword and killing a demon of morgoth, which could defeat the first born elves they were so powerful.

25-They did not explain the ring correctly. In fact they changed what would happen if you put it on, multiple times.

There are many more, but I can't remember atm

[athanaric]

15-Galadriel was the fairest person in middle earth and they made her ugly and corrupt

Matter of taste I guess.

20-The arwen aragorn story was wayyyyyyy too overplayed. Elrond would only let aragorn marry arwen if he united middle earth. Before the movie, they were already betrothed.

That's because they
a) mistook Aragorn for the main character (which he isn't. The main characters are Frodo and Sam, period), and
b) felt they had to add a love interest for one of the major characters, so as to cater to certain audiences as well as to stick to "tried and true" Hollywood formula.

22-The only part legolas and gimli played in the books was that they were friends and were loyal to each other, despite being a dwarf and elf. Not a dwarf as comic relief, nor an elf as a hero.

Good point.

23-There were a lot more eagles in the books

That's excusable, since it's a minor issue and those eagles were very difficult to animate.

[crawfs]

I will build off this..
14-Shire war was left out

Anti-climatic ending to the story.

[conon394]

15-Galadriel was the fairest person in middle earth and they made her ugly and corrupt

I no friend of the PJ version but you got me scratching my head here. How is she shown as ugly? She is an exile and under the doom of Mandos as written in the LOTR, in fact she is probly the most dangerous person Frodo meets and tries to hand the One Ring over too.

[smoesville]

Saying Galadriel was the fairest person is a bit of a stretch, it also really makes her character less interesting and two dimensional.

[KnightsTemplar]

Saying Galadriel was the fairest person is a bit of a stretch, it also really makes her character less interesting and two dimensional.

Perhaps Luthien is.

[Ngugi]

Perhaps Luthien is.

The all time #1 is indeed Luthien but let us not leave out Arwen who was considered a Luthien reborn.
I like this little text concerning Arwen and her grandmother (cute competition then, eh? haha) as an example:

In three days, as the King had said, Éomer of Rohan came riding to the City [Minas Tirith], and with him came an éored of the fairest knights of the Mark. He was welcomed; and when they sat all at table in Merethrond, the Great Hall of Feasts, he beheld the beauty of the [among other, Elven] ladies that he saw and was filled with great wonder. And before he went to his rest he sent for Gimli the Dwarf, and he said to him: ‘Gimli Glóin’s son, have you your axe ready?’
‘Nay, lord,’ said Gimli, ‘but I can speedily fetch it, if there be need.’
‘You shall judge,’ said Éomer. ‘For there are certain rash words concerning the Lady in the Golden Wood that lie still between us. And now I have seen her with my eyes.’
‘Well, lord,’ said Gimli, ‘and what say you now?’
‘Alas!’ said Éomer. ‘I will not say that she is the fairest lady that lives.’
‘Then I must go for my axe,’ said Gimli.
‘But first I will plead this excuse,’ said Éomer. ‘Had I seen her in other company, I would have said all that you could wish. But now I will put Queen Arwen Evenstar first, and I am ready to do battle on my own part with any who deny me. Shall I call for my sword?’
Then Gimli bowed low. ‘Nay, you are excused for my part, lord,’ he said. ‘You have chosen the Evening; but my love is given to the Morning. And my heart forebodes that soon it will past away for ever.’

- RotK; Many Partings

Rickilcious I presume was just not content with Cate Blanchett, not fitting his personal pereception of beauty; while corrupt she was no more than in the book (in which both she's tempted, seemingly turn into something worse but reject the Ring) so that remark make no sense.

'And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!'
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful.

- FotR; The Mirror of Galadriel

[Jmonstra]

My complaints are fairly similar to those already expounded upon. The good guys only seem to grow a spine when they're on horseback, various other lore-rapes etc.

But one of the things that bugged me the most is that the Men in the movie always needed to be saved. The Elves came to save the Rohirram and the CGI Green Ghost Jello of Doom had to come to the rescue of Gondor. In the books they did it all themselves. I felt like the movies really missed that message of self-reliance that the books offer. No magic, Divine Intervention etc was going to save the world. Not this time. If anything was to be done it would have to be accomplished by the courage of people willing to stand up and fight. That for me is much more powerful and moving than epic battle scenes.

[Avatar]

I will build off this..


15-Galadriel was the fairest person in middle earth and they made her ugly and corrupt

17-Boromir/Aragorn are supposed to be huge in stature, kingly, stout and complete ing badasses.

18-Boromir was not an evil person, and only fell to the ring's malice for a brief moment right before he was slain, nor faramir(who also married eowyn which was only mentioned with a glance at each other for a half a second)

21-Gollum was never 'good'. He was just sworn under the ring, but always had the master plan to take them through shelob's lair.

There are many more, but I can't remember atm

Just going to single a few of the points out here. If you don't think Cate Blanchett is beautiful, thats your call, however Galadriel was certainly not portrayed as ugly and corrupt. The scene with Frodo was to highlight what would happen if a person of good intention was to take control of the Ring.

Boromir and Aragorn were pretty darn badass in their fight scenes, and also Boromir was in no way portrayed as evil, so I'm not even sure why you list that.

As for Gollum, while perhaps never wholly good, was not completely evil. He actually felt some kinship with hobbits, being one himself and all, and especially liked Frodo who treated him kindly. Indeed Gandalf says early in the book that there is still a chance that Gollum might be cured of his "evil".

[KnightsTemplar]

My complaints are fairly similar to those already expounded upon. The good guys only seem to grow a spine when they're on horseback, various other lore-rapes etc.

But one of the things that bugged me the most is that the Men in the movie always needed to be saved. The Elves came to save the Rohirram and the CGI Green Ghost Jello of Doom had to come to the rescue of Gondor. In the books they did it all themselves. I felt like the movies really missed that message of self-reliance that the books offer. No magic, Divine Intervention etc was going to save the world. Not this time. If anything was to be done it would have to be accomplished by the courage of people willing to stand up and fight. That for me is much more powerful and moving than epic battle scenes.

Because, y'know, riders really works. Reason why IRL it exists.

And then, PJ sucks at doing things the proper way.

Boromir and Aragorn were pretty darn badass in their fight scenes, and also Boromir was in no way portrayed as evil, so I'm not even sure why you list that.

Boromir actually got better in the movies.
In the books, as far as I can remember, he's pretty much a jerk, unlike Faramir.
Then there are the Numenoreans and the Kings' Men, so.
In the movie he at least have legit reasons.

[Avatar]

Boromir actually got better in the movies.
In the books, as far as I can remember, he's pretty much a jerk, unlike Faramir.

Boromir in the books simply has a slightly different set of priorities to the rest of the fellowship, in so far as being unable to get his head around the fact that the Ring is a corrupting influence. That doesn't distract from his good nature, it just created an easy opening for the Ring to twist him quicker than the others. It's quite ironic that his steadfast believe in human incorruptibility was his downfall.

[Jmonstra]

Because, y'know, riders really works. Reason why IRL it exists.

And then, PJ sucks at doing things the proper way.

I'm not sure I follow you. The times on screen that someone other than one of the heros manages to best an orc or Uruk-hai are quite few and far between and generally involve either arrows or a cavalry charge, which made most of the battles boring and one-sided.

[KnightsTemplar]

I'm not sure I follow you. The times on screen that someone other than one of the heros manages to best an orc or Uruk-hai are quite few and far between and generally involve either arrows or a cavalry charge, which made most of the battles boring and one-sided.

PJ just doesn't know how to make battles the 'right', moving way.
Like the 'getting slaughtered then run the away' Gondorians and 'green jelly' Army of the Dead.

Actually I wondered if the tin-can costumes of the Gondorian extras have anything to do with their performance.
The lighter Orcs and rangers and even the Rohirrm do much better in battle.

And then, archers and riders are expectable. We the audiences sort of 'expected' them to work, and then win.
Infantry fights on the other hand have much more variable.
Most directors just can't figure how to make these fights convincing.

[Bowmaster]

What I am wondering about the Gondor soldiers in Minas Tirith is that why they are so weak? Yes, yes, this has been spoken many times, but think about what Tolkien said in the book: There were only few soldiers in Minas Tirith with such a brave heart that they could stand against the Ringwraiths and the army of Mordor. Isn't that enough, PJ? Couldn't you just put Gandalf to say that? But no, you had to make them look like weaklings? Doesn't that add enough drama already. They did run away, but only when they see an orc slaughtering just one guy. That sucks, PJ! That sucks!

[The-Defender]

as many said before PJ made gondorian soldiers looks like retards with good armor nothing more...i havent read the books but i can guess that Gondor had the finnest soldiers of middle earth compared with quality of armor and skills. The most idiot scenes for me is the archers firing straight ahead to the woods of siege towers (!!) and when they start firing rocks with trebs by gadalf's orders, i mean if gadalf was eating during this scene the soldiers would stay and watching the orcs closing and doing nothing? (!!!!)

(wow and dont forget the faramir's non-sense charge in osgiliath rocks!!!!!!)

[DrDragun]

I don't think Gondor looked bad. Their rangers fought well in Two Towers and the in the invasion of Osgiliath in RotK they fought fiercely and cleverly when grossly outmanned. When Gandalf and Pippin first ride into Minas Tirith the music comes to a heroic crescendo showing the great strength of the White City. PJ just had to balance time between showing their strength and showing the magnitude of the orc force they were facing.

[Bowmaster]

You can't be serious! "Showing the magnitude of the orc force? The orcs were and are weak! They only win by manpower. And Faramir was able to defend Osgiliath at first, and even when it was taken, he managed to do great damage to the orc army. You say that they fought fiercely and cleverly? They came, looked at one orc, escape, and then get killed. If the soldiers were just running around in the book, well, then they all would have got killed. And their rangers fought well? Yeah, too well! They take down the whole band and the mumakil by a single volley. That's impossible!