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Thread: Gripes with the Peter Jackson LotR and Hobbit films

  1. #21

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Really, this thread again? Jackson changed some things. Some people don't like it. We get it.


  2. #22

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Yeah, reading the books makes me realise how bad the movie adaptation is even though I loved the movies...

    I guess it means we could get an awesome remake a couple years down?

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    I'm guessing rather the opposite. With the death of Chris Tolkien the rights to Middle Earth might be sold to any crappy director.
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    When watching the movies for the first time I remember being kind of disappointed about how Faramir was portrayed, although the "extended" editions translated his character a little bit better. The movie just didn't manage to show Faramir's "wisdom of old".

    PJ really did a great job, but NEVER will a movie as a medium be able to translate and recreate a book in all its glorious and detailed atmosphere.

    BUT the weakest scene that comes to my mind is probably the "Isengardic torch relay" at Helms Deep. It is so cheesy to watch and non nonsensical considering that the Uruks already did manage to put all the explosives in place unhindered, but then had to rely solely on one heroic running naked torchbearer.


    Muuuu

  5. #25

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Quote Originally Posted by Muuuu View Post
    but then had to rely solely on one heroic running naked torchbearer.
    Ya, and to top it off EVERY Uruk around that one Uruk with the giant sparkler had a torch as well. One of them coulda just lit the damn fuse.

  6. #26
    Shea O'Gorath's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    One of them coulda just lit the damn fuse.
    But it was his birthday. They had to make it special


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  7. #27

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Lol, a lot of what I feel has already been said, but wanted to mention that the Rohirrim reinforcements with Gandalf that charge downhill on horseback (they were foot soldiers in the book) into a waiting line of braced pikes that are specifically designed to destroy the hell out of cavalry charges.

    EDIT: Also want to mention I LOVED the first and second movies (although I hadn't read the books in over a decade when they came out). I hated the third movie, especially the copy-cat scene where Aragon is riding up and down the line of soldiers giving a motivational speech similar to the scene in Braveheart, his acting in that scene came across as insincere.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    first of all some litle critics on the thread-name:
    why start a negative "flame"-thread? why not a neutral pros/contras? for sure there are many things which possibly create gripes, but most/nearly all of them are subjective and not objective. the changes most hated by some, are most loved by others.

    some points you mentioned for example:

    1st
    arwen instead of glorfindel: well not a necessary change, but a bit haisplitting! I for example think that a strengthened role of arwen in the films is not bad. and glorfindel doesn't occur this often, so why bother about replacing him in the only scene he would have played a role?

    2nd
    the charge of the rohirim against pike-armed uruks unrealistic? why for sure pikes where designed agains cavalry-attacs, but does this mean that the rider has only 0% chance left? do you think that after the invention of the pike never again cavalry charged against infantry? and remember the sun in the riders backs and the elevated territory are mighty allies! i admit that the territory could be a bit too cliffy, but remember it's a film, so "drama baby"!

    3rd
    tom bombadil: I think, it's a very interesting character in the story-telling-evolution tolkien went through - from the book for children to a saga for adults, but I'm not angry about him not appearing in the films.

    4th
    one point, which is in deed a bit ridiculous: the charge of faramirs riders against a city ful of orcs - that was really a mixture between & .

    in the end you can discuss every detail, where is the grey company, where the sons of elrond, where imrahil? but you find pros and cons - not only contra!
    and: it is a film many things had to be shortened or left out and if you do this, some story-lines or characters (like glorfindel) wouldn't be understandable anymore, so the director has to change them.
    the other possibility would have been to make three films out of every book (small side blow to the current production )

  9. #29

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    You guys must have forgotten the first movie in order to forget the biggest offense of all.

    Aragorn thrashing 9 Nazgul on Weathertop.
    The last one is looking lost and confused as Strider finishes the kill with a torch throw to the face. Completely removed the terror of the Enemy's greatest servants.

    In general, I just felt that the portions of the film focusing on relationships were weak and campy (Frodo/Sam or Arwen/Aragorn). These characters were never showing their relationships through realistic conversation or actions, instead they were simply outright saying what the audience was supposed to get making it pretty boring filler between the battles.

    Anyway, in the end though the landscapes, cinematography, battles, costumes, and storytelling pacing were fantastic.

  10. #30
    Shea O'Gorath's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Ok so the big ones.

    Aragorn is a compleatly different character in the book and the movie. In the book he is cockey and ready to accept the responsibility of the Kingship. In the movies he is near afraid of is destiny.

    Theodens death. No Hadrim Chieftain. No last speech to Eomer.

    No Imrahil. No sally forth to protect the retreat by the forces at Osgiliath. No saving Eowyn.


    All in all it was a good adaptation. Ive seen far more liberal adeptations (Death of Dumbledore in The Half Blood Prince) Small things like Arwen at the ford can be forgiven.


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  11. #31

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Quote Originally Posted by grandgnu View Post
    Lol, a lot of what I feel has already been said, but wanted to mention that the Rohirrim reinforcements with Gandalf that charge downhill on horseback (they were foot soldiers in the book) into a waiting line of braced pikes that are specifically designed to destroy the hell out of cavalry charges.

    EDIT: Also want to mention I LOVED the first and second movies (although I hadn't read the books in over a decade when they came out). I hated the third movie, especially the copy-cat scene where Aragon is riding up and down the line of soldiers giving a motivational speech similar to the scene in Braveheart, his acting in that scene came across as insincere.
    I think the movie DID emphasize Gandalf's magic combined with the rising sun causing the Uruks to be blinded during this charge.

    This was very necessary to me because all the orcs always talk about "how we gonna deal with the White Wizard?" but most of the time Gandalf is just a sword fighter in the battles . At least during this charge he used some magic to give 1 side a massive advantage.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Aragorn thrashing 9 Nazgul on Weathertop. The last one is looking lost and confused as Strider finishes the kill with a torch throw to the face. Completely removed the terror of the Enemy's greatest servants.
    This was always going to be a tricky episode to film. Unless you know the backstory from the Unfinished Tales than you cannot really see the Nazgul were spooked. They were cut off from help, had had to fight Gandalf, knew that both Elf lords and Rangers were out on the prowl and most importantly they recognized the hobbit daggers would kill them... but of course that is more or less impossible to even write (which is why I presume why JRRT made it only an abortive appendix entry at best and not book material - because he would have needed POV episode and he only did those for the bad guys when somebody was listening not as stand alone chapters). Once you make the reasonably logical cutout of the Barrow Downs because you cut out Tom you loose magic swords. All the rest only becomes clear in retrospect and you have to admit at the moment on the first read the Nazgul do seem rather impudent. A film will not really support that, either a Nazgul POV scene needed to be invented and the Barrow Downs included or you are left with just giving Aragorn action moment.

    Personally while I have lots of issues they fall into three groups:

    Made up stuff that does not seem to serve any point except fake tension - Aragorn's non death for example.

    Making Faramir a Putz and Denethor a Bad Guy, and making Pippen an Oath breaker as a result

    In general dumb battle strategy - For example I see no reason why Theodin is running to Helm's Deep with refugees instead of trying to bring reinforcements to the army as the Isen. In fact why not keep the original in a movie they worried lacked women characters the solid endorsement of all the leaders of Rohan that Eowyn should lead while the king was away is a good moment for JRRT. Related is he general tendency to make all the character forced into acting rather than doing something out of choice, be it the Ents, or Theodin or Faramir or even Denethor, one gets the impression PJ thinks nobody chooses or tries to choose the correct option without being tricked or fooled or having no other option after trying to run away.

    A small point too much slow mo - really does anyone think Frodo is dead in the first movie of a 3 movie series where he is the establish main character - the slow mo in Moria was silly, I mean its not like the LOTR was a small under the radar book.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Quote Originally Posted by mondpeiler View Post
    2nd
    the charge of the rohirim against pike-armed uruks unrealistic? why for sure pikes where designed agains cavalry-attacs, but does this mean that the rider has only 0% chance left? do you think that after the invention of the pike never again cavalry charged against infantry? and remember the sun in the riders backs and the elevated territory are mighty allies! i admit that the territory could be a bit too cliffy, but remember it's a film, so "drama baby"!

    Heavily outnumbered cavalry charging downhill into massed ranks of pikes = a quickly stopped charge with riders and horses impaled on said pikes. Their momentum charging down a hill ensures they're going to kill themselves with this approach.

    Any idiot knows you flank the pikes from the side or rear before they can maneuver to receive the charge.

    I guess we'll agree on "drama baby"

  14. #34
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Quote Originally Posted by brasswire View Post
    Really, this thread again? Jackson changed some things. Some people don't like it. We get it.

    I must agree with you on this one.
    +rep.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Ah one of these threads again. We do like to bash don't we?

    You forgot the way Aragorn acts at the end of the first movie.

    In the books he is uncertain which hobbits the Uruks took, he doesn't have a quick word with Frodo before the little fellow buggers off.

    'Oh you want to head to Mordor on your own with the one ring, okay I'm cool with that. I'm going to go and fight fifty orcs on my own to buy you some time.'

    That was odd.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaedros View Post
    I'm guessing rather the opposite. With the death of Chris Tolkien the rights to Middle Earth might be sold to any crappy director.
    I Suppose the rights would go to one of his sons.

  17. #37
    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Still, in a couple of generations there's gonna be someone who doesn't respect the work and'll sell it
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  18. #38
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    In some 30 years the copyright length of his books [Hobbit and LotR at least] will expire anyway [life + 70 years].

    I have to say PJ apperently done a great work, since people hunt and list scenes they disliked and not the scenes they liked.

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  19. #39
    Feanaro Curufinwe's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    This is NOT a flame thread. This is just a place for people to list their problems with the films.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Gripes with the Peter Jackson Lotr films

    Quote Originally Posted by grandgnu View Post
    Heavily outnumbered cavalry charging downhill into massed ranks of pikes = a quickly stopped charge with riders and horses impaled on said pikes. Their momentum charging down a hill ensures they're going to kill themselves with this approach.

    Any idiot knows you flank the pikes from the side or rear before they can maneuver to receive the charge.

    I guess we'll agree on "drama baby"
    Given Tolkien's background I bet he was turning in his grave over that one


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