Gripes with the Peter Jackson LotR and Hobbit films

[Feanaro Curufinwe]

First of all I want to say that this is my first post on this Forum and that today is my birthday so if you want drop by and wish me Happy Birthday . Now let's get into the meat of this post and thread.Although I believe that Jackson's films are probably the best adaptation of Tolkien's world, I and many others think that they had a lot of of mistakes and unnecessary inaccuracies contrary both to the spirit and feel of the books.

1.The cutting of Tom Bombadil
This is Jackson's first major deviation from the books:Removing Tom Bombadil the merry fellow who had a blue jacket and his boots were yellow, is probably the most forgivable change due to the fact that it is impossible to film.

2.Aragorn the Anti-hero
Aragorn in the books is the proud heir of Elendil and a strong and decisive leader of Men who since he entered adulthood wanted the throne of Gondor and Arnor.In the films he has abandoned his quest for the throne which was his most important motivation in the books,and he merely wants to wander Middle Earth.Yeah not all those who wander are lost...Tell that to Jackson.

3.Elrond the always angry
In the books Elrond is a kind and wise Elven Lord who is also a Half Elf who fostered many Dunedain Kings and Chieftains. In the movies he is turned into a grumpy Elf who mutters about the weakness of Men and has a look that screams '' I imagine myself kicking you to death.".

More will be added soon......

[knicolas2]

about 1:
just imagine you would include every detail into the movie.. . imagine how long it would be.

2:
i don´t really know why they did that.. . maybe to make a better story. a hero who want´s his quest seems to me a bit boring.

3:
i think elrond is on one hand that what you have said but on the other he grew bitter because sauron wasn´t defeated caused by men.

[Harvester of Sorrow]

Well, its Jackson's adaption of the trilogy so it doesn't have to be completely accurate.He changed and removed things so that it would work as a movie. Though I would have liked to have seen the awesomeness of Tom Bombadil.

[knicolas2]

yes maybe his interpretation. oh and i forgot.. happy birthday

[Feanaro Curufinwe]

4.Gimli the Clown
Gimli from the serious....Damn I am too disgusted to continue.

5.Legolas the Super Elf
In the films Legolas shield surfs in Helm's Deep,kills a MUMAK in the most ridiculous way possible while in Fellowship at least it wasn't that ridiculous,but later it seems like 100 guys like Legolas would win the war by themselves.

6.Elves..AT HELM'S DEEP!
A completely unneeded change that detracts from the bravery of the Rohirrim and makes you wonder,Why did the Elves lose so easily?

7.Denethor the raving madman
In the books Denethor was the masterful and steadfast Steward of Gondor who had done everything to defend his people[including risking,and eventually losing his own sanity] and a tragic, flawed personality and one of the deepest characters in the books is reduced to a raving lunatic who obstructed Gandalf's efforts and in the end leapt off the Seventh level of Minas Tirith while burning to death.

[Teek-a-Leeks]

My only gripes about the movie revolve around Gondor. From how weak he made both Borimir and Farimir look as compared to the books. How Insane he made Denathor! And just how basically the Gondorian soldiers were simply running with terror on their faces the whole movie. Orcs raping soldiers of Gondor in the street... Ugh..

[FountainGuard]

Yeah I agree, wow my birthday was yesterday. Happy birthday by the way. And he made Gondor's infantry look like total crap, I also would have liked to see the lore version of Pelennor Fields, with the Black Captain, (No, I am not being racist), and there were actually Easterlings, fighting, which I would've liked to see.

[Lortano]

My only gripes about the movie revolve around Gondor. From how weak he made both Borimir and Farimir look as compared to the books. How Insane he made Denathor! And just how basically the Gondorian soldiers were simply running with terror on their faces the whole movie. Orcs raping soldiers of Gondor in the street... Ugh..

I agree. Somehow the elite Gondorian soldiers in full plate armor could get one shotted by orcs in paper armor with a hammer. It's silly.

I liked the way he portrayed Boromir, it was really just to emphasize the influence of the ring. Faramir though... it was strange. In the second film he seemed very angry and miserable for some reason, although admitadely his brother had just died. It was just strange, because in the third film he seemed to be rather sensible. It just didn't feel right.

And Denethor...he was so crazy that it was unbelievable. He was far too crazy, and it kind of lost the idea that he loved Gondor but was driven to despair. In the films he didn't seem to give a damn. Totally wrong.
Although his death was awesome. Better than the books. Period.

[Mikail Mengsk]

1- elves at helm's deep

2- too few rohirrim at helm's deep

3- orcs and uruk hai too powerful

4- plate armor

5- plate armor is like paper armor

6- faramir falling to the ring

7- denethor as a mad idiot

8- army of the dead at pelennor fields

9- orcs breaking into minas tirith

10- the witch kind "defeating" gandalf

11- arwen instead of glorfindel at the river

12- narsil/anduril given in rohan instead of imladris

13- the ents initially refusing to go to war

14- etc etc etc

[Mhaedros]

Personally I think it's OK that Bombadill and the first parts of FotR where cut. The worst things are plate armor, elves at Helm's Deep and those kinds of completely new things

[Sir Crashalot]

I enjoyed the films but can list gripes like above if I decide to think about it, which is why I choose not to and just enjoy.

I am glad that they left out Tom Bombadil though because that part of the book stood out like a sore thumb to me. Just as the mood was being set along he comes out of nowhere singing "Hi Jo!" etc. then after the old forest scene he disappears back into obscurity having no effect on the storyline and little to no reference before or after. I feel the book would have been better with the Old forest part removed completely, if it had been noone would have even noticed.. that's how much effect it had on the storyline.

[alreadyded]

I understand why he cut/changed certain aspects of the books; like Fordo owning the Ring for 30 years (until he was fifty) before he even left Hobbiton; Sam, Pippin, and Merry being grown up already; Tom Bombadil and Barrow Downs (he did use Old Man Willow in Fangorn though, that was creative). These things are hard to explain and represent in movies, plus they take up a lot of time. The movies do waste a good amount of time depicting useless stuff though, I would have liked them to focus more on events going on than some of the characters own little "drama" with themselves. I know it meant to make the movie more entertaining, but it is unnecessary with such an EPIC story, and much of it contradicts the books BIG TIME. The Council of Elrond scene was WAY too short, this scene should have been much longer (cut all the useless crap instead) and used to really set the story instead of just used to "move it along." A lot of parts are pretty corny as well, but it was made for the masses so such things are inevitable.

All this said, Jackson did a much better job than I expected of him by far. I am still surprised to this day that Turner signed a 3 movie contract with him, what an epic risk that was. I personally would have chosen many directors over Jackson for this sort of movie. I knew Jackson would make it corny, that is his style in his previous two movies that he made (the only two I think) and that is the last thing this story should be. It should be grave and serious and impress that on the viewer, not corny which completely detracts from that.

Oh yeah, the Weather Top scene where Aragorn OWNS all the Nazgul single handily, that was the worst movie scene ever ever! How are these guys a threat if Aragorn can take them all on at once AT NIGHT when they are their strongest!?!? And why were they even running from these Nazgul, Aragorn shoulda just whooped if they came too close, he already did it once. Way to make a movie Jackson... In the books the Nazgul leave after stabbing Frodo, they are not routed, and they cannot be harmed by blades or fire. Aragorn probably runs and hides so they don't find out who he his.

[Wizad]

1- elves at helm's deep

Made the movie more awesome.

3- orcs and uruk hai too powerful

Obviously a powerful enemy is needed to make an interesting movie. How fun would it be to watch a hack&slash of a guy who wants to everything up only to become king.

6- faramir falling to the ring

Which give the movie a bit more depth and showed the power of the ring.

7- denethor as a mad idiot

I agree. Showing Denethor as a simple grumpy old man made a bit of sense Hollywood-story-wise because then you can't relate to him, but also made the story a bit dull.

4- plate armor

8- army of the dead at pelennor fields

9- orcs breaking into minas tirith

11- arwen instead of glorfindel at the river

12- narsil/anduril given in rohan instead of imladris

Honestly do you really care about these?

10- the witch kind "defeating" gandalf

Yeah this scene was really weird. It felt so off. It should have been a bit more like the epic battles between Gandalf and Saruman in the Orthanc and at the pass of Caradhras.

13- the ents initially refusing to go to war

Which gave the movie more depth.

Oh yeah, the Weather Top scene where Aragorn OWNS all the Nazgul single handily, that was the worst movie scene ever ever! How are these guys a threat if Aragorn can take them all on at once AT NIGHT when they are their strongest!?!? And why were they even running from these Nazgul, Aragorn shoulda just whooped if they came too close, he already did it once. Way to make a movie Jackson... In the books the Nazgul leave after stabbing Frodo, they are not routed, and they cannot be harmed by blades or fire. Aragorn probably runs and hides so they don't find out who he his.

Yeah this is the most valid criticism of the movie. The scene still puzzles me.

The only way how it could make sense, is that the Nazgul sensed Aragorn's power and didn't expect it at all. Sort of like how an howling owl or a jumping cat can scare us at night when we don't expect one.

[Josh Knight]

I think the way the orcs are depicted is more realistic.

Yeah, the men of Gondor are supposed to be well trained, but they are also very weak compared to the men of the past. They don't even outlive the men of Rohan now.

Also, even if your markedly better at fighting than your opponent, if there are 3 orcs there you will probably lose. All of them hacking at the same time is just going to wear you down. It's like Soviet Russia vs Nazi Germany. Yeah, the germans had better equipment, tactics, and training, but the millions of soldiers the Soviets could muster eventually wore them down.

[Vaskill]

Tolkien himself said it was not filmable and he was right. I like the movies and the cast but like ded said it was very corny and cliche in a way. I mean they made Frodo the weakest movie character I've seen as of yet. Physically speaking because everytime he encounters an enemy he walks backwards and trips, really "I know about the Ring's influence I just don't see why he has to fall backwards all of the time"? Can you imagine if they had to made it into 1 movie? It would've been even more horrendous. My least favorite part was Frodo sending Sam away. But I still love the movies, favorite scene is Gandalf's departure when he faces the Balrog. Still gets me.

[Axeface]

I think the films captured the essence and intended lessons of the books very well. Peter Jackson (of all directors) pulling of this trilogy is something unheard of, if a hollywood director had gotten the rights the films would have been a disaster.

Yeah this is the most valid criticism of the movie. The scene still puzzles me.

The only way how it could make sense, is that the Nazgul sensed Aragorn's power and didn't expect it at all. Sort of like how an howling owl or a jumping cat can scare us at night when we don't expect one.

To me its the same reason that the 9 didnt just go alone to Minas Tirith, Edoras, Helms Deep... anywhere in fact, and just kill everyone (everyone in middle earth) by themselves. Why take an army if your invulnerable? Obviously they actually arnt invulnerable and it's all just spin by the evil forces to create fear.

10- the witch kind "defeating" gandalf

This scene made the following arrival of Rohan into one of the most evocative scenes in film history. To this day I still get goosebumps when that horn sounds.


Anyway, I need to leave this thread and never come back before I start to rant, thankful that people that post on forums dont make films

[Mikail Mengsk]

Made the movie more awesome.

how about no. not everyone likes elves so much and for sure if PJ just replaced them with a more realistic number of rohirrim no one would have ever complained about elves NOT being at helm's deep

Obviously a powerful enemy is needed to make an interesting movie. How fun would it be to watch a hack&slash of a guy who wants to everything up only to become king.

orcs made up with numbers. with orcs so strong to phisically easily beat every human soldier, why hasn't gondor fell years before? that's just nonsense. that was just made to esasperate the desperate situation of gondor and to exalt the role of the heroes

Which give the movie a bit more depth and showed the power of the ring.

screwing the only human that hold against the ring, that earned the respect of the ringbearer and shows the difference between him and his brother and father. in the films faramir is just as everybody else. Just to ephasize how awesome are elves and hobbits, the only ones that can resist the Ring?

Honestly do you really care about these?

they have no sense story-wise and hollywood-wise, so i wonder why PJ made so. I can swallow some lore-rape if there is some real reason behind it, but that have none. was it really necessary to show arwen in that occasion? I know, showing a good pair of boobs is good for the box office, and a CG-army of green dead warriors is easier to make instead of an army of alive soldiers.

of them, the army of the dead is the worst one: the others are not really worth of mention and not so much lore-rape. but the "dead army cheat" simply throws the climax of the Pelennor Field's battle down the toilet.

Which gave the movie more depth.

No. It simply portrayed the ents as scumbags that doesn't give a damn about the world until the evil touched them in their "homes". makes them egoistic as hell, and also it's nonsense: treebeard should have known for sure if isengard had burnt down a dozen of square miles of his beloved forest





Oh, i forgot:

- the nonsense downhill charge of Gandalf and Eomer at Helm's deep

- the nonsense head-on charge of the Rohirrim against the Mumakil at Pelennor Fields

- the nonsense Legolas the SuperElf

also this

Oh yeah, the Weather Top scene where Aragorn OWNS all the Nazgul single handily, that was the worst movie scene ever ever! How are these guys a threat if Aragorn can take them all on at once AT NIGHT when they are their strongest!?!? And why were they even running from these Nazgul, Aragorn shoulda just whooped if they came too close, he already did it once. Way to make a movie Jackson... In the books the Nazgul leave after stabbing Frodo, they are not routed, and they cannot be harmed by blades or fire. Aragorn probably runs and hides so they don't find out who he his.

[Shea O'Gorath]

Pretty much the whole battle of pellenor fields. And the siege of Minas Tirith. And Denethor.

Pellenor: No Dunedain Rangers, No death of the Hadrim Cheiftain follower by Theoden saying how he can die proud now he slayed the cheif of the hadrim to Eomer. Little to no aid by Gondor on the field. Eomer dosent find his sister followed by Imrahil saving her.

Siege of Minas Tirith: Faramir isnt shown to be the extreamly respected captain he is. No Sortie by the Swan Knights of Dol Amroth to protect the retreat. Where in the hell is Prince Imrihill since he did lead the cith for a while. No entrance of the men of Lossarnach or Pelegir before the showdown.

Denethor: The man is now a bit of a loon. But what we dont see is why. We dont see him using the plantir and have sauron bend his thoughts.

As for the Elves at Helms Deep. How did they find out of this siege and march from Mirkwood in only a few days? Also why are the people cowering in dank caverns when according to Gimli son of Gloin there are halls of stone that the dwarves would treasure.

Also the Ents were already in some state of war with Isengard since Saruman had began cutting down the forrest killing some Ents along the way.

[alreadyded]

Tolkien himself said it was not filmable and he was right. My least favorite part was Frodo sending Sam away.

I forgot about Frodo sending Sam away, ya that scene was really stupid too. You spend 9 hours of filming developing the characters then have them do things they would never do and are completely unbelievable. Sam would never leave, that IS his character. Also the whole Frodo trusting Gollum over Sam... Frodo never trusted Gollum, he just uses him because he needs to. The movies are just all over the place and don't focus on what is important, the story and how it affects/effects the characters. As I said before though, Jackson only made like two family films before taking on this epic task so it doesn't surprise me and I was impressed he did as good a job as he did.

I do believe these books could be made into a much better movie that actually tells the same story as the book, but movies are made to sell, books are made for the authors enjoyment mostly. You would need a film studio and staff that wanted to make the movie for enjoyment, not for money and popularity, which will never happen as it costs money and requires popularity to make a profit. Which is what it is all about, profit. I still to this day cannot figure out why Warner Bros gave a 3 movie contract to Jackson when he had little directing experience and none in that field of film. Maybe Warner bros will make the same reckless risk in another ten years or so... I honestly think I could have done a better job, and usually don't say such things in honesty. I already have no desire to see The Hobbit films, they will be way cornier and all effed up since there isn't really enough story or characters. Overall I would say the production values are the only thing that really impress people, the story in the movies isn't that great.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Oh, forgot the pointless, retarded, nonsense charge of a 50 or so knights led by faramir to the ruins of Osgiliath. That was probably the worst of all.