Paying toll, Cultural disputes, and Internal powerstruggles

**Allemande** · August 11, 2012, 02:48 AM

Hi there,

I already posted these questions/ideas on the '' ask yer quetions '' topic but here i can elaborate
further on these ideas and hopefully get some feedback from others as how they like it.

Toll system: (it's so ancient and a great way for raising money)
First i read in the FAQ that '' moving freely about with your army would be made difficult '' since, there
are roads leading past forts and castles, i could only imagine some landlords/neighbouring countries,
ask for an amount of money to be payed, in order for your army to stay/pass the region.
So implementing a toll system could be real fun, since you would have to pay and think about moving
your troops the right way or be penalized.

example:
I move my English army into France, the French are not my allies so while passing in French
country l get a little pop-up screen saying: '' The French duke/king demands a fee to be payed
for all your troops staying in the country, not giving into these demands will be seen
as an act of agression, what do you do ?? ''
*Pay Toll
*Ignore payment (hoping to pass safely without having to fight/pay)
*Declare war

This, should also work the other way around by asking the A.I to pay for passing/camping in
your country/provinces.

Cultural Disputes:
Another feature i would like to talk about is having different cultures/religions in the same
country/province, while some provinces might be open to outsiders and their customs, it is of
all ages that people are being surpressed withtin society.

To give an example:
I have a big city, this city has 3 kinds of cultural worship, Paganism, Sunni, Judaism.
So now the villagers demand of me to surpress Paganism because it isn't really in favor with
the popular religions (and because the people just want to hate one another).
* I can choose to lower taxes
* I could also reinforce the city with extra troops
* Or i could simply excommunicate the religion wich isn't in favor anymore.

This in turn would upset the target people or the neglected issuers of the demands
(the complaining party), resulting in civil uprising, or , the sabotaging of buildings

Please give it a thought since these things happend a lot and still do, they are vital
for making desicions in going to war or staying home.

Internal powerstruggles:
At last i would like to see family members coming to you and ask, you to kill some-one
of the family, but if you would fail to comply with these request's you might become
the target of certain family members.
Also failing a assassination attempt will result in rebellious uprising/civil war.

Example:
You get a mission from a family member to kill another member in X turns.
* You could kill the family member in question, or kill the one asking for the attempt
(note: please make an '' arrest button '' so you can imprison the person in question)
* Simply ingnore the mission alltogether and send your family members on dangerous expeditions

Failing in resolving, the matters at hand, will result in civil wars or assassination attempts towards you.

A nice extra feature would be that your allies send in troops to subdue or assist the cause at hand.
They might side with the favored duke/lord against you or choose to help you in crushing the rebellion.
I ask this because seeing your allies doing nothing for you, but keeping their soldiers of your walls is the
only thing i could see in the Vanilla game wich is a bit sad, i wan't to really count on my allies, especially when intermarried.

I would really like to see these features implemented, i think the Mod will rock so much more.
Thanks though for making a great game Awesome.

**Celtoi** · August 11, 2012, 09:21 AM

Great ideas !

**Rinan** · August 13, 2012, 03:41 AM

Don't really like your idea about toll. It doesn't sound fun to me, nor realistic. I haven't done any research on it, but I doubt toll was meant for armies passing through. It was meant for merchans and the like. I really don't think France wants an English army in its borders, with or without getting paid for it! An army passing through an area causes quite some damage. If they don't have supplies they have to pillage the local countryside for food. Needless to say, that isn't really pleasant for the locals. I don't think the trouble is worth the pay. Long story short: I think toll was more meant for individuals than for entire armies.

I like your other two ideas and it wouldn't surprise me if something like that is in place already.

**Allemande** · August 13, 2012, 11:17 AM

'' Rinan: An army passing through an area causes quite some damage. ''

Well thats my point, exactly, let me ask you, (i might be a bit driven

What if armies went on crusades and passed neutral/allied countries for resupply/camping/healing.
It would be considerate to pay other coutries, especially neutral ones for the hospitallity they offered, simply pillaging a
neighbouring city/village wouldn't be a wise desicion, yes ???

On the Toll question: (take a look at ancient times and Medieval times)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_road

Ancient times

Toll roads are at least 2700 years old, as tolls had to be paid by travellers using the Susa–Babylon highway

under the regime of Ashurbanipal, who reigned in the seventh century BC.

Aristotle and Pliny refer to tolls in Arabia and other parts of Asia. In India, before the 4th century BC, the Arthasastra notes the use of tolls.

Germanic tribes charged tolls to travellers across mountain passes. Tolls were used in the Holy Roman Empire in the 14th century and 15th century.
Middle ages

A 14th century example (though not for a road) is Castle Loevestein in the Netherlands, which was built at a strategic point

where 2 rivers meet, and charged tolls on boats sailing along the river.
Many modern European roads were originally constructed as toll roads in order to recoup the costs of construction. In 14th century England,

some of the most heavily used roads were repaired with money raised from tolls by pavage grants.

Don't forget '' the Ottomans '' controlled most of the seas near Jerusalem, they would, and did, charge the
European coutries, through the ages with toll.
European coutries despite their co-operations (templars,hospitallers,teutons,crusaders) always revered the Turks, especially their armies.
And since you would be losing money on, wrongly displacing troops, you now have the challange to really plan ahead your moves before
making them.
This should also work the other way around, when a neutral army intends to attack you but really hasn't gathered the force to convince,
you to prepare for an attack, now they would have to pay for their '' campings '' inside your regions. (since they should not have been there anyway)

Please note, at the moment i'm waiting for a reply from ''the head DoTS team'' to help and script/code these features in myself,
i just need to know what to do wich, so if anyone of the team has the time to teach a total NOOB how to do this please
contact me.
I have plenty of free time/devotion to see these features work, and gamers scream in agony

Thanks for liking the other features though

**Allemande** · August 13, 2012, 11:30 AM

O yea forgot to post this: PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. '' -_- ''

**NikeBG** · August 13, 2012, 12:45 PM

I don't see how it (tolls) could work for anything else than crusades (which would make it a specific crusade-feature and not a general one). Not to mention that the crusaders also often plundered the land, especially in non-Catholic (f.e. Orthodox) areas. It's a common thing for any army.

**Rinan** · August 13, 2012, 05:49 PM

@OP: I'm not denying the existence and importance of toll in medieval times. In fact, being allowed to ask for toll was one of the priveleges that came with medieval city rights; so arguably toll goes hand in hand with the rise of cities.

However, I don't think it makes any sense to implement it for armies. I think it was more for individuals. Actually, I think it was meant mostly for merchants. Sometimes a merchant passing through an area had to pay toll and sell a certain amount of his wares in that city before he could move on. Asking for toll from merchant gives you a lot of money. Asking for toll from armies does not. Because the armies cause a lot of trouble and damage, so you hardly get any profit.

Edit: I also think it's not really easy to implement. Especially not for the AI going through your land. But having things like attrition and relation drops when you venture through foreign territory would have the same kind of result on gameplay: you'll still have to think about how you move your armies. So how about that?

**Allemande** · August 14, 2012, 01:51 AM

I think you should STFU

no seriously ?

I was wondering indeed how toll would affect gameplay, it might be usefull yes in certain places on the map (near forts with bridges,
or islands like cyprus) but if you can simply ignore the '' toll '' it might indeed be an underused feature.
Also if an enemy would intend on attacking you, why pay a toll first ??

again you might have a point.
Though using some places to raise toll might also be a great cause to conquer the target area and get it's tollage income ???
It remains picky though, reading how big the script already is maybe ''tollage'' could be better left out....

**Allemande** · August 18, 2012, 03:16 PM

I won't be participating to implement these features any longer, i guess the drive was just to spontanious
and without real thought, after checking the '' Modding threads '' my apetite for scripting/coding went down, considerably.
I will just have to wait like all the other guys and have a go at the Mod when it's ready.
Here is hoping to see someone getting these ideas into the game.