Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24

Thread: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

  1. #1

    Default Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    I had another idea to suggest to CA regarding the scattered and divided tribe cutlures ...
    like Celts , Iberians , berbers , Germans , Britons , Sarmatians etc ...

    DO no Treat them as one faction :

    1) Allow multiple subfactions with minor expansion route , limit the expansions to usually sacks and raids , or interfactional expansion , but historically no Super porwer shoudl rise unless ... read after...

    2 ) Give many many different subcultural factions , call them minor minor perhaps , so to have a good represetnation of for example Gaul into different subtribes all pertinent to one single Gaul Culture , briton , german etc.

    3) enstablish an intercultural relation between the minor factions with semithreaties allowing alliances and enemitudes between them but still relatively different from an alien culture one .

    4 ) Under a threat that affects more than one bordering tribe and menaces the whole culture of the area the tribes should unite and form a Rised army of tribes united under one flag or one carismatic leader to face the incoming thread ...

    5) those kind of armies or temporary alliances can be very fragile but still strong for as long as the menace is present ...

    So for making a couple of examples look at Arminius or Vercingetorix .


    6) mass migrations under event trigger
    For example ... An event like flood in central norther rhine regions could cause the aggressivity of a particular x tribe there to increase because starting a migration toward other lands or surrounding ones .... If it attax the neightbouring german tribe those may clash the looser may not necessarily be annihilated but eventually cold take a whle packed army move (with women ,childrens etc ) and seek new home... Attaking eventually roman borders ....

    So events could play also a major role in what the evolution of politics and diplomacy could be...



    7)
    Neutral zones and nomadic areas


    The neutral zones could be fairly empty places with very scarce populations , like deserts , cold steppes etc... Those would result in a difficult to settle for tribes but also civilized powers ... Also could feature random nomadic movements of nomad tribes .... So in a xxx region of the steppes , cold be controlled a large part by a nomad culture , with no main city but a moving city that can be placed in any subregional area that can hold it inside the boundaries of the macro region.... This wold simlate also the control of a nomadic tribe over a large area.... While a settled type of civ could instead convert to an agricultural base the large region a piece at time , subtracting so terrritory of living for the nomadic culture.... If the nomadicmculture remains without possibility to migrate inside its own territory is forged either to mass migrate somewherelse... Or convert to a different culture type...
    Last edited by PROMETHEUS ts; August 06, 2012 at 09:22 PM.

    ------CONAN TRAILER--------
    RomeII Realistic Heights mod
    Arcani
    I S S G A R D
    Creator of Ran no Jidai mod
    Creator of Res Gestae
    Original Creator of severall add ons on RTW from grass to textures and Roman Legions
    Oblivion Modder- DUNE creator
    Fallout 3 Modder
    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

  2. #2

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common thread Army rises

    if there is no limit for the factions,why would they complicate themselves in making an united gaul formed by subfactions?

  3. #3
    Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    1,563

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common thread Army rises

    I'd rather just have individual factions for the main tribes.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Please no , that woudl be the most unhistorical thing they could add ....

    a single blobb faction like Gaul for Gaulish tribes ? no thanks .

    ------CONAN TRAILER--------
    RomeII Realistic Heights mod
    Arcani
    I S S G A R D
    Creator of Ran no Jidai mod
    Creator of Res Gestae
    Original Creator of severall add ons on RTW from grass to textures and Roman Legions
    Oblivion Modder- DUNE creator
    Fallout 3 Modder
    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

  5. #5
    Greve Af Göteborg's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,558

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    yeah, just make individual factions for them. that you can seize control over in ways of conquer or diplomacy.

  6. #6
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Republica de Venezuela
    Posts
    6,704

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    You can always make them all separated factions, with some sort of diplomatic bonus among them the give a sense of lose unity.
    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
    Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
    Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
    Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en espańol? Mira por aca.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Great idea pro, kelts were in small tribes but could unite (alliance) under .. wait for it .. . DRUIDS! ..and / or a respected leader - Vercingetorix.

    plus your idea of small tribes falls in well with my idea of subfactions combining to make a main faction, held together by protectorate agreements, alliances, domination etc

    R
    oOo

    Rome 2 refugee ...

    oOo

  8. #8
    Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    1,563

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    Please no , that woudl be the most unhistorical thing they could add ....

    a single blobb faction like Gaul for Gaulish tribes ? no thanks .
    Ha! God no. By individual tribes I meant just that, having factions for each barbarian tribe, ie Aedui, Arverni, Boii, Chatti, Getai, Daci etc. Not those awful factions from RTW.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Ah but than this would mean the coming back of Seperated rome
    United we stand interenets! Nerdfighter.
    Warcraft Total War!
    Help Save a Wonderful mod that could
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=273449
    You guys should register for the golden Symbol of Forum Oppression http://signup.europauniversalis4.com/r/89425f5ce60

  10. #10
    Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    1,563

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    No it wouldn't, Rome was a single state, the Gauls weren't. I'd like to see the internal politics of each faction included, which is what the multiple Roman factions in RTW were supposed to represent, but using actual factions for these internal divisions is a very bad way to go about it.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    Ha! God no. By individual tribes I meant just that, having factions for each barbarian tribe, ie Aedui, Arverni, Boii, Chatti, Getai, Daci etc. Not those awful factions from RTW.
    Wellthen I am suggesting something much above this .... You basically can have even 100 different gaul tribes , all rebels all pertinent to the same culture with pseudorelation between them , according tomsome factors one or more could become predominand and rise at the level of minor faction...those minor factions could confederate with the other culturally similar ones to create a macrocoalization vs invaders .... Ofc something that increase in chances after many of the minor cultural tribes get beaten and inglobated in another culture.

    ------CONAN TRAILER--------
    RomeII Realistic Heights mod
    Arcani
    I S S G A R D
    Creator of Ran no Jidai mod
    Creator of Res Gestae
    Original Creator of severall add ons on RTW from grass to textures and Roman Legions
    Oblivion Modder- DUNE creator
    Fallout 3 Modder
    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

  12. #12

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    Ha! God no. By individual tribes I meant just that, having factions for each barbarian tribe, ie Aedui, Arverni, Boii, Chatti, Getai, Daci etc. Not those awful factions from RTW.
    and he's for having a sort of cultural equivilant to the senate or Pope in game. Greeks, Germans or whoever can put aside their differences to face a common invader to their lands.

  13. #13
    JOZI's Avatar Libertus
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Memphis TN
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Hell why not I mean they already announced they would be doing it for the Greek they might as well

  14. #14

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    I had another idea to suggest to CA regarding the scattered and divided tribe cutlures ...
    like Celts , Iberians , berbers , Germans , Britons , Sarmatians etc ...

    DO no Treat them as one faction :

    1) Allow multiple subfactions with minor expansion route , limit the expansions to usually sacks and raids , or interfactional expansion , but historically no Super porwer shoudl rise unless ... read after...

    2 ) Give many many different subcultural factions , call them minor minor perhaps , so to have a good represetnation of for example Gaul into different subtribes all pertinent to one single Gaul Culture , briton , german etc.

    3) enstablish an intercultural relation between the minor factions with semithreaties allowing alliances and enemitudes between them but still relatively different from an alien culture one .

    4 ) Under a threat that affects more than one bordering tribe and menaces the whole culture of the area the tribes should unite and form a Rised army of tribes united under one flag or one carismatic leader to face the incoming thread ...

    5) those kind of armies or temporary alliances can be very fragile but still strong for as long as the menace is present ...

    So for making a couple of examples look at Arminius or Vercingetorix .
    My opinion simply goes. I think they should do like SHOGUN 2 and have several minor factions scattered about. Most of the SHOGUN 2 major factions did not start too big and they had to conquer several minor factions. However, I think SHOGUN 2 is much too fast paced.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    It's an interesting idea but I fear dividing up ethnic groups into smaller sub-factions would make them too easy to conquer, making it perhaps too easy to diplomatically isolate them from their co-ethnic neighbours. Perhaps if, say, the Cimbri tribe has a permanent 'ethnic defence pact' with other German tribes like the Teutones, Ambrones etc that means if another non-germanic faction attacks a germanic faction, they all declare war on the aggressor, but if the germanic tribe is the aggressor they don't have to.

    Also, bringing in 'Migration warpaths' whereby neutral stacks of barbarian troops arise and head in random directions, attacking everything in their path but not actually part of any faction would add another challenge to the predictable wars that tended to be the staple of S2.
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

    -Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)

    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

  16. #16
    West3634's Avatar Libertus
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    I think this could be made to work really well, it would be really good to see this. As for tribes being too weak i think they could be made to be quite strong. This for example when playing as Rome and trying to take Gaul would lead you to not have all out war with all the tribes and instead pick out certain ones and base your expansion around that.This would also allow cities not near borders to actually still have some troops, i fear if something like this isnt implemented there may be constant enemy stacks coming at me.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    It's an interesting idea but I fear dividing up ethnic groups into smaller sub-factions would make them too easy to conquer, making it perhaps too easy to diplomatically isolate them from their co-ethnic neighbours. Perhaps if, say, the Cimbri tribe has a permanent 'ethnic defence pact' with other German tribes like the Teutones, Ambrones etc that means if another non-germanic faction attacks a germanic faction, they all declare war on the aggressor, but if the germanic tribe is the aggressor they don't have to.

    Also, bringing in 'Migration warpaths' whereby neutral stacks of barbarian troops arise and head in random directions, attacking everything in their path but not actually part of any faction would add another challenge to the predictable wars that tended to be the staple of S2.
    Its actually just because of that that could work well... Imagine rome makes an alliance with a german tribe to help in case of aggression , if another german tribe attaks that allied one then rome is in right to intervene without malus due to attaking a german cultural tribe because is in Aid mode helping the allied tribe , wich eventually could lead to the defeat of the other tribe and clientarism of allied... This way rome could attack one by one the scattered tribes without having major problems that would arise tough if a x% of tribes are getting owned , so increasing each timemthe chances for a charismatic leader tomemerge and oppose rome for example ... Leading to a temporary peace and cooperation , eventually even the allied german tribes could get a malus vs rome butas well a double malus vs other cultural ones as seenas betrayal or the like....


    Well my idea is just a base from wich to start it could honeslty be evolved in a really comples behaviour of alliances , treaties and sustem if will be implemented with many political diplomacy options and political variables that could influence the status of the tribes....


    For example ... An event like flood in central norther rhine regions could cause the aggressivity of a particular x tribe there to increase because starting a migration toward other lands or surrounding ones .... If it attax the neightbouring german tribe those may clash the looser may not necessarily be annihilated but eventually cold take a whle packed army move (with women ,childrens etc ) and seek new home... Attaking eventually roman borders ....

    So events could play also a major role in what the evolution of politics and diplomacy could be...

    ------CONAN TRAILER--------
    RomeII Realistic Heights mod
    Arcani
    I S S G A R D
    Creator of Ran no Jidai mod
    Creator of Res Gestae
    Original Creator of severall add ons on RTW from grass to textures and Roman Legions
    Oblivion Modder- DUNE creator
    Fallout 3 Modder
    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

  18. #18

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts View Post
    For example ... An event like flood in central norther rhine regions could cause the aggressivity of a particular x tribe there to increase because starting a migration toward other lands or surrounding ones .... If it attax the neightbouring german tribe those may clash the looser may not necessarily be annihilated but eventually cold take a whle packed army move (with women ,childrens etc ) and seek new home... Attaking eventually roman borders ....

    So events could play also a major role in what the evolution of politics and diplomacy could be...
    I like the idea of migrating stacks, they would present an unexpected challenge (So long as their movement is random). The Cimbrian War showed the circuitous nature of their meanderings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ci..._invasions.svg before they got clobbered.

    However, I want CA to save the real barbarian invasions for the expansion, which will of course be a remake of BI.
    'When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing — they believe in anything. '

    -Emile Cammaerts' book The Laughing Prophets (1937)

    Under the patronage of Nihil. So there.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    I like the idea of migrating stacks, they would present an unexpected challenge (So long as their movement is random). The Cimbrian War showed the circuitous nature of their meanderings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ci..._invasions.svg before they got clobbered.

    However, I want CA to save the real barbarian invasions for the expansion, which will of course be a remake of BI.
    People always travelled , the barbarian invasions never started at the end of roman empire ,there had always been , simply rome could handle them easier befoure than later when in financial crysis ... The BI expansion that will probably happen will feature much more evolved barbarian tribes , more civilized but also feature new threats like the huns ... They shouln't save the migrative system tough for later only but implement by default for barbaric tribes .

    I tend to exclude celts from barbaric types of that kind.

    ------CONAN TRAILER--------
    RomeII Realistic Heights mod
    Arcani
    I S S G A R D
    Creator of Ran no Jidai mod
    Creator of Res Gestae
    Original Creator of severall add ons on RTW from grass to textures and Roman Legions
    Oblivion Modder- DUNE creator
    Fallout 3 Modder
    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

  20. #20

    Default Re: Suggestion to CA : on Scattered tribes and Common threat Army rises

    I actually expect to see something like this in Rome II, just like I posted before in other threads.

    The number of factions necessarily means that there'll be e.g. several germanic tribes and James Russel said in an interview that there'll be choices like playing Rome as a republic or an empire.

    From that start point I envision factions to be made up of smaller sub-groups, which are called tribes for the "barbaric" factions and families for the more "civilized" nations. Some factions start united like Rome and have a higher likelihood to be united due to their intrinsic character, while others like germanic tribes don't.

    Sub-groups can be united through a peacful way (think republic) or through force (think empire). An empire gives more freedom of choice, because the "senate", made up of members of the families/tribes, is lacking or just a farce, but has some disadvantages, like a smaller pool of family members from just your family.
    A republic obviously gives you a bigger pool of people, but you need to factor in the contentment of the families when you give titles to family members, like governor, general or minister (think of Empire's ministers). At the same discontent of a family might lead to civil war. Or the senate vetos your decision to wage war.

    The unification process could vary a little among different cultures. Barbarians may value military prowess more, while say Carthage values trading more and thus your prestige rating rises to finally reach a treshold to unite the tribes/families.

    This sub-group feature would be great, like others have pointed out, to strengthen smaller factions, simulate internal politics and civil wars. All the other stuff that has been announced like improved graphics or bigger scale battles or the combination of naval and land battles don't intrigue me nearly as much as the possibility of internal politics, because it influences so much of the gameplay in a smart way. And it is quite realistic to see something like this because many weak factions would ruin the campaign, so CA has to come up with a solution.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •