Income in very hard difficulty

[suvorov777]

Playing as GB, i recently got thirteen colonies under my control, still my treasury has not grown, instead it is decreasing due to upkeep of few military units i receieved in addition. Do i get some penalty to my income because of the difficulty level of my campaign? I also wanna know if the enemy nations such as Spain and France get income bonuses, as i have been blocking all of their trading ports, reducing their income significantly, and they still can afford large armies, outnumbering mine in america. So AI in very hard cheats thats it?

[The Useless Member]

I don't think you get any penalties, but the AI obviously gets bonuses.

[HauptmanT]

The thirteen colonies starts very poor. Open your policies page, look at the americas tax rate, and you'll notice it probably takes in only 2-3 thousand. It costs more to defend it than it makes early game. However, once the towns start growing, and you get the buildings in place that will all change.

Early game it's all about getting indiamen on those trade nodes.

[eschelar]

Tee hee. Yep. The AI cheats.

I agree with The Haupt. Hit those trade nodes and hit em hard. Deny the enemy as many as you can and any time anyone goes to war with you, take all of their nodes, even if you plan on letting them live.

That's the 100% hands-down key to getting early $cash$.

The 13 Colonies are poor most of the game in most of my campaigns. I wouldn't worry about that though. If you can get a couple of the bigger regions there that will help you to recruit like crazy, nothing will stand in your way at any point in the game.

Unfortunately, the AI doesn't have anywhere near as much cost as you do for upkeep, so never try to defeat them by denying them cash. That's a fool's errand.

Instead of blockading their ports, raid their trade lanes. You do run the risk of getting overwhelmed by their ships, but if you have the ability to build 3rd rates, you can usually do OK against the AI's fleets. And don't forget that if you are sitting on a trade route, they WILL come to get you. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. If you blockade the port, it won't be able to build ships, but if you stand back and raid, you will get income.

Don't worry, VH/VH is absolutely doable.

[suvorov777]

thanks for replies, i quess im gonna stick to that hauptman mentioned.

[oqvist]

Speaking of indiamen and trade nodes I run RTI and last chapter. In the beginning they talk about how important the trade routes and all are. However if I build indiamen for example if I right click on a new trade node commercial port it says attacking? Isnīt trade nodes active in the RTI campaigns and the india men is then absolutely pointless? I donīt like the last chapter because for whatever reason on the america scene there is no pirate ships so why talk about protecting trade routes? On the european scene I see that all of the time but attacking any of those now means I go to war? I spent a lot on research for navies got a naval hospital and soon to get rocket ships and hasnīt seen a battle yet due to going for diplomacy and keep as much trading as possible :p There isnīt even any ships to fight with. Was more action in Chapter 3 :p

As for the trade nodes how should it work. You right click on the trade node and the ship goes there and back on itīs own?

[Symphony]

Speaking of indiamen and trade nodes I run RTI and last chapter. In the beginning they talk about how important the trade routes and all are. However if I build indiamen for example if I right click on a new trade node commercial port it says attacking? Isnīt trade nodes active in the RTI campaigns and the india men is then absolutely pointless? I donīt like the last chapter because for whatever reason on the america scene there is no pirate ships so why talk about protecting trade routes? On the european scene I see that all of the time but attacking any of those now means I go to war? I spent a lot on research for navies got a naval hospital and soon to get rocket ships and hasnīt seen a battle yet due to going for diplomacy and keep as much trading as possible :p There isnīt even any ships to fight with. Was more action in Chapter 3 :p

As for the trade nodes how should it work. You right click on the trade node and the ship goes there and back on itīs own?

Trade nodes != ports. You're attacking somebody else's ports, which will result in you either taking the port, or (if there's an army or navy occupying that port) blockading it. That's an act of war.

Brazil, the Ivory Coast, the East Indies, etc, are the trade theaters, with 5 nodes each...that's where you want to send your Indiamen.

[oqvist]

Found them by 1820 something... of course by then all was occupied by GB and Spain I was on war with so could hassle them wonder how much money I missed. Not having a single trade node didnīt prevent me from by far being the richest. I got up to about 35000 in trade. with no trade nodes and hardly any pirating with virtually no navy up keep. Say 32000 minus navy costs because I couldnīt help having an independence just rotting in my harbour except for the indiaman I had no idea where to send.

If you arenīt going to invade it appear to be quite effective. Say if I had 5 trade nodes how much more money would I have made? I guess trade nodes give more then pirating popular lines?

[eschelar]

If it makes you feel better, I played my first 2 campaigns before I discovered trade nodes. The third campaign discovered a bug and I played two more campaigns without them because the bug made me think it wasn't worth the hassle. I didn't really get them totally figured out until about my 10th campaign.

When you say 35000 in trade, do you mean 35000 in trade income alone? or with trade you got up to 35000/turn total?

Trade nodes give different types of income compared to raiding trade lines.

Trade lines are only ever as good as the target nation's trade. Then you apply a percentage based on what ships you are raiding with. Typically raiding doesn't usually pull more than 2-3000 a turn for me.

There seems to be something of a limit as to how good your trade income can get. This is a practical limit based on the values of goods and the trading partners you have. Usually for me, by the time I get a really good income from trade going, most of the potential trade partners are starting to fall apart.

Some nations get a better chance to get more trade at different stages o the game. IE UP. They start with enough ships and trade ships to basically monopolize all of the trade nodes minus about 8-10 within the first 2-3 turns (you can occupy a trade node with a non-trade ship, it just won't generate income). In the early, I was making at least 10k/turn thanks to trade by around 1710. By 1720, it was 20-25k and I was starting to hit the games limits because I was running out of trade partners and they didn't ahve the infrastructure to keep my trade booming. It slowly climbed to 40k+ by 1735.

Contrast that with my recent Prussian campaign where it was about 1720 before I even managed to get my first trade node... But by 1730, my income had basically caught up to my UP levels, but weighted more towards the tax based income due to very strong expansion (I played the Prussian campaign a lot better than my UP campaign)

In those campaigns, I never really rake in the cash until the end game when my territorial expansion and industrial techs start to get crazy and my tax income goes north of 100k/turn. Before that, my army upkeep levels get really, really high, so my actual income per turn never really goes over around 30k/turn until I own about 80% of the map and my game is about 95% complete. That's when I start dismantling troops and the income can catch up.

At that point, my trade income usually drops from 35k/turn to around 25k/turn because I usually have only one nation left to trade with.

So while I do usually hit around 50k/turn from trade alone at some point in the campaign, it's usually short-lived and covers no more than around 10 turns at most. 35k seems to be about the most I can get sustainably.

[oqvist]

It said projected trade income 35000 or something on the government tab.

I am at 1706 and is at about 12000 in trade currently. I have all ports in the region so some fisheries and a dockyard or two so maxed out on trade partners as well so itīs not just trade nodes. Sweden started with 2 fifth rates one sixth rate and a brig as well. I beat the danish army kept my better ships and sent the sloop for trading and builded a new cheapish vessel on first turn. no trade ships with darth mod Continued with one or two after that and captured some pirates. I found myself being first to ivory coast and on the same turn as many others. 1705 I think I had 5 or 6 trade nodes occupied and then I lost a couple to pirates. So far I have won more then I lost so it worked out okay. If I can get Prussia and Russia off my back I will build a big fleet to go to brazil and madagascar areas where pirates have them all empty for the taking lol

[panzer.tc]

I don't play very hard, rather I play hard, but I don't believe there are any penalties for players.

The trick to income, I use it regardless which nationality I play.
Step 1, Don't try to take over the world right out of the gate.
I actually try to keep the peace in my world for the first 10 years or so.
Step 2, don't try to build the largest army in the world early on - a) if you followed step 1 you won't need it, and b) it will put you into the poor house quicker than anything else (it took me quite a long time to learn this one).
Step 3, for the first five to ten years you should direct roughly 75-80% of your spending towards improving your economy - building craft shops (towns), improving farmland, building ports, etc.
Step 4, as soon as possible, build trade ships (I always start off with two) send them to the coast of Brazil trade zone.
Step 5, after step 4 build at least two 5th Rates (or 6th Rates) and send them to blockade the two pirate ports in the Americas. This will keep the pirates from producing (legitimately) any new pirate ships; you will find that by 1705 that the pirates will be cleared from the other trades zones by other nations - should you NOT want to clear them yourself. (I generally try to clear them myself - trying to capture any Indiamen, and any Galleons of Fluyts that I can, because they can actually be used as trade ships)
Step 6, after the pirates have been cleared, build as many trade ships as possible - as quick as possible and get them into all four trade zones, securing at least one (or two - I always take two trade zones) trade port in each zone. I also try to keep the number of trade ships even (equal) for each trade resource (remember Ivory is available in two of the trade zones).

Also, make as many trade agreements as possible - remembering to not waste your time with trade routes to nations that are perpetually being blockaded, i.e., United Provinces, France or Spain, early in the game. I try, whenever the game allows, to include in any peace agreements - trade agreements.
I will trade with the enemies of my allies, and still sleep at night...

Following these steps it is not uncommon for me to have turn-by-turn incomes in excess of 15,000 - 20,000 gold per turn by 1720-1725ish.

By around 1710, I am ready to conquer the world.

[Symphony]

It's worth noting, too, that not all trade nodes are created equal. Each trade theater generates different goods, and the value of those goods are neither equal nor static...they fluctuate over the course of the game based on supply. For example, ivory tends to be the most valuable trade good at game start, so your best bang for your buck will be to send trade fleets to the African trade theaters. however, ivory tends to fall in value over the course of the game as everybody gets into that market, and spice will often become more valuable, making the East Indies a better trade target.

Also, trade goods (and therefore trade income) can be generated outside trade nodes via plantations, fur trading posts, etc contained in regions. The Caribbean has a lot of sugar and coffee nodes, both North America and the Middle East have cotton nodes, North America also has tobacco, India has spices and tea, and fur is all over the place. So long as you control that region, there's a resource building built on that node, and you have a trade route away from that region (a trade port or a clear overland trade route), you'll trade that item the same way trade nodes work. Bear in mind that you do have to have a trade route out of the region in question....a region surrounded by enemy territory (no land trade route), or an island with a shipyard or fishery instead of a trade port, won't trade its resource.

[oqvist]

Playing the swedish campaign so itīs pretty much inevitable to go to war. Up to 13000 per turn 1706 in income after all up keep expenses. But there isnīt much upkeep except for the sloops and small galleys I use as trade ships (darth mod) and some 5000 for army because everyone wants to kill me and nobody want to make allies lol. It also took me a while to really care about up keep costs. I donīt usually have big problems with that in TW if you survive the early years itīs hard to fail really but in MW TW 2 I was constantly broke to always having to build everything and building massive armies that I had living to many turns lol Empire is the first TW where I have ever used disband

I wanted to make allies and all that but I have a nation called austria that has allied with every single nation and since they went to war obviously trying to take the entire europe I canīt get any allies at all. Itīs greyed out everywhere even if I am at very friendly. So things that started out brilliantly I have upgraded farms and mines already and have trade port in just about every province looks like itīs going to hell with austria, and prussia pressing on and russia trying to muster an attack lol.

[panzer.tc]

from oqvist

upkeep except for the sloops and small galleys I use as trade ships (darth mod)

I use DMUC and I build Indiamen trade ships?

Sweden is actually easy to play, because it is a wealthy country, and you can remain at peace with the Russians and Danes long enough to get your economic and military ball rolling.
As for allies, I make very few allies - because they are a double edged sword at best, they may help you (or they may not) but they can also drag you into wars you may not want to participate in. So I always follow Napoleon's maxim about "going to war with as few allies as possible."
If you must go to war, go to war on your terms. You can usually tell from the diplomatic messages from your neighbors when they are going to attack you. For example as Sweden, Russia will continuously send messages requesting this or that technology, or region, or right of passage, etc. then after being turned down several times they will attack. So easy, prepare so you can strike a devastating blow before they attack you. Build a corps stack (or close to it) set it up in the port on the island (forget the name) in the Baltic along with some ships to transport them. Shortly before you think Russia will strike transport it to the port just east of St. Petersburg, offload them and march immediately on Moscow. Keeping Moscow would be difficult this early on, but just taking it and raising all of its improvements, and the improvements throughout Muscovy will keep the Russians busy rebuilding for some time.
Properly planned taking out Denmark in one turn is also very possible.
After which you should be able to enjoy peace for some time.

Pick your enemies carefully, when you go to war try to do so against only one or perhaps two countries at a time. Isolate your opponents, I think I heard someone on here say. Don't be afraid to make peace with some countries in order to focus on the one or two you wish to attack.

I usually play Russia, for some crazy reason I've always liked Czarist (Imperial) Russia, and I always make peace with the Crimean Khanate and the Ottomans on my first turn on the best terms I can get, so that I can prepare for the expected clash between Sweden and Russia (which I usually start).

Sit back, and watch what the other countries are doing, who are THEY at war with; are you trying to align your nation up with someone(?) then go to war with the same countries they are at war with.

If you see a neighboring country, whose territory you will eventually want, and they are at war with other countries - wait until they are committed then strike while they are already stretched for military resources.

I'm rambling...

[oqvist]

Who isnīt. Hmm maybe indiamen is still available? Does trade depend on what ship you use?. Bigger ship comes back with more commodities?

Austria need to be destroyed for me to be able to play the diplomacy card. I canīt understand how austria can be ally with GB, France, Spain, UP, Prussia, Ottoman and what not already when they are so aggressive!

But yes it donīt appear to be to hard. Heck I am leading big in Prestige which feels odd. Generally you are weak in the beginning and get stronger but maybe I just play better then ever lol. I suppose the hardest would be nations with no harbours. I make a lot of money despite building armies almost like I donīt know what to do of it all. 60/40 taxes/trade. Stockholm is making much more money then any other city I have encountered already at 1709 building the stockholm slot and great museum due to having to much money Prussia and Russia and P-L feels pretty weak right now after winning some battles and generally taking a city after each one and being quicker having the money to reproduce. Would be cool to still have these crappy spearmen units by 1799 with what 20 stars lol. Denmark which has only Iceland and appear to have some insane fleet at the moment I havenīt seen since I took Copenhagen and Norway. So itīs only Austria which now that I got like 4 production cities going will hopefully not be to much of a problem. I tried requesting peace with some tech money bribing since I hasnīt planned on just continue down europe but itīs not even close which is as it should be I suppose

Moscow is not a priority at the moment no harbours but if it would force them to sign a peace treaty. Have walls on St Petersburg so they can attack that if they wish or I would be annoyed spending the money on booring walls .