The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

[The Norseman]

1. I disagree a bit about Dale's wealth. Both Dale and Esgaroth are, or can be, extremely wealthy cities. I'm pulling in 2500+ / turn from Dale, and 1400+ /turn from Esgaroth on turn 41. A better governor could get more out of Esgaroth, but one works with what one has. The trick is to train up governors, especially the GoodTaxman, GoodFarmer, and GoodTrader lines. Also, focusing on population growth as long as possible. It's also only a matter of time before someone gets an Architect ancillary and when that happens, pair it up with the Staua of Dale item and get 30% off all construction. The Dale homelands are a small enough area that you can have one dedicated 'builder' general running around placing all the construction orders with the discount - that really gets good bang for buck.

If that is how much the city Dale is earning each turn then Frogs must have done some changes from the 3.2 version, but then again you said you have been focusing on ecomomics entirely. At turn 1 Rhun`s cities start with a lot more wealthy cities such as these: Mistrand - 1599 Kelepar - 1119 Mattaram - 1003 Rhomen - 900 Buhr Ermanarikis - 800 and then two other cities with 400 - 600 a turn. While Dale`s cities earn less, well not necessarily less, but they do have much fewer cities. Dale - 1023 Esgaroth - 845 and then two small villages/cities earning about 500. I just tested it out and added 7000 population to Dale and bought all of the econonomical buildings, but I still did not come even close to what you earned. Ofcourse with a great governor I could perhaps reach 1900 but not anymore then that. I did the same with Esgaroth and it earned 1474 each turn and with a good general maybe 1800. Rhun`s city, Mistrand can earn almost 4000 a turn if you have a good governor.

For those of you who do not know how to gain these traits, then I can give you a tip. When it is 1 turn left before a building is finished, move your general to that city and raise the taxes to Very High. He will then most likely receive the Architect or Good Taxman trait by doing so.

2. I mostly did focus on economy, and growth, but I made sure I had access to new Longbowmen and Yeomen right away. I now have access to Dale Swordsmen from Buhr Marhlinge and I should have them from Esgaroth soon. I can get Hunters and Rivermen from all over the place.

You will need to construct military buildings now because of Rhun is becoming more offensive. Swordsmen are very decent units.

4. What's been working less well have been bridge battles: there haven't been any. There are simply too many armies coming from too many directions across too many crossings. Brand has been trying to lure them into a bridge battle for several turns and they keep going around his army and attacking either Grasgard or Buhr Marhlinge directly. I've been forced to beef up Buhr Marhlinge's garrison to be independent of my field army, because I can't be in both places at once. This is because of how freakin' far Rhun's armies can move in a turn. I never played vanilla 3.2 so I'm not sure if this is a FRoGS feature, but Rhun's territories start with tier 3 roads - Highways - in them. Even with watchtowers on the border and spies deeper in, I have trouble seeing far enough into their territory to know everything coming my way 1-2 turns out.

If the enemy armies refuse to cross bridges you could enable the construction of forts in your files. I did it once and it was much more fun for me, but I decided to remove it as I had to get used to not having it when I was playing hotseats.

To sum up the who-owns-what situation: I know FRoGS adds some regions, but I'm not sure exactly where/which. Dorwinion has two regions in my game: Dorwinion, the town, and Riavod, the wooden castle on the other side of the river. Both are still in rebel hands. I didn't take them, and neither has Rhun. They tried once or twice, got beaten back and now seem to be entirely focused on me instead. I hold Araw. Buhr Widu is held by rebels still. All the other lands to the south are held by Rhun except Rhunost (still rebel, but besieged by Mordor at the moment). So yeah, I'm massively outmatched, that makes it fun.

I have not tried Frogs before so I do not know which new regions have been added so it might be a bit different from 3.2 but if the rebel cities have been attacked and now have little troops left then I would suggest you try to take them. It will give you some extra income and since the culture is mostly that of yours you will most likely be able to recruit at once, giving you another place to recruit troops from. If you are able to send units to siege cities I could suggest you send some to Rhun`s cities and then sack their unprotected cities. After sacking you could destroy the buildings, giving you A LOT of money. Well you just have to remember that the archers are Dale`s backbone so be sure to use them! If your archers are being charged, then counter charge by making them go in melee. You can do this by pressing Alt + RMB.

I think that's my plan, actually to send them east, when I can, but my Dwarven army is currently in the Grey Mountains, rooting out OoTMM's northern settlements. Best I can hope for right now is to give Dale some money from time to time, but the Dwarven treasury is running on fumes: Dale actually has more free capital to work with every turn at the moment, the Dwarves have a large army in the field to pay for. Perhaps by turn 60 (currently turn 41) I can get another army together to help.

Are the dwarves in the west a faction as well? because if so then you can use those against OOG and OOTMM. I did not know Thranduils Halls had an own faction so if that is the case then yes, you should try to attack Rhun. Be aware of the fact that if your cities bordering Dol Goldur only have 1 unit in them the AI will try to attack your city, so be sure to have some spies keeping them under watch!

Given that Framsburg was Anduin's largest town and was garrisoned with (currently) irreplaceable elite troops, and the whole dang faction is now in much more trouble than Dale, I think any Mirkwood aid is going to have to go west before it goes east.

Eliminate any direct threats before you head for Rhun. If they are no threat to the faction then you can ignore them and focus on Rhun.

[avenging angel]

I used to be terrible at dale. Well not terrible but definately not great. Better then with rohan but i digress. Thanks for this guide norse. It really does help and thats why i like your guides. rather then just lots of text, you show in picture what your trying to explain. That makes it easier to follow whereas i find teh other guides too long and boring though no offense to teh authors. In theirs, the only thing that is missing is pictures which really helps if you have a large paragraph..

[The Norseman]

I used to be terrible at dale. Well not terrible but definately not great. Better then with rohan but i digress. Thanks for this guide norse. It really does help and thats why i like your guides. rather then just lots of text, you show in picture what your trying to explain. That makes it easier to follow whereas i find teh other guides too long and boring though no offense to teh authors. In theirs, the only thing that is missing is pictures which really helps if you have a large paragraph..

Thank you! It means a lot!

[Incomitatus]

If that is how much the city Dale is earning each turn then Frogs must have done some changes from the 3.2 version,

Dale has a Market, Port, Dirt Roads, and Crop Rotation, so the city infrastructure isn't that well developed. Population = 9383. Taxes on Very High, bringing in 2553 gold/turn on turn 42, breakdown as follows:

1504 from Taxes
420 from Farming (with a poor harvest)
485 from Trade
144 from Admin

King Bard is governing. He has 6 Obedience (adds to admin income).
Revenue increasing traits are:

Obediently Minded : +2 Obedience
Skilled Bureaucrat : +5% Trade, +2 Law
Trader : +20% Trade
Rural Expert : +2 Farming Level
Cruelly Exacting Taxman : +30% Taxes

Revenue increasing ancillaries are:

Chain of the Mayor of Dale : +5% Tax, +1 Law
Overseer : +1 Farming (and other irrelevant stuff)
Elven Friend : +1 Farming
Tutor : +1 Obedience, +5% Trade

Total trait/ancillary bonuses:

+3 Obedience,
+3 Law (irrelevant since Dale is the capital, but would matter somewhere else)
+4 Farming levels
+30% Trade
+35% Taxes

I'm a decent general, but what I'm really good at is making money! It is the sinew of war, after all.

For those of you who do not know how to gain these traits, then I can give you a tip. When it is 1 turn left before a building is finished, move your general to that city and raise the taxes to Very High. He will then most likely receive the Architect or Good Taxman trait by doing so.

I can expand on this. The GoodTaxman trait has three levels, 10, 20, and 30% bonus respectively, and is one of the easiest traits to get. The trigger is being governor of a town when it finishes a building while taxes are set to Very High and happiness is Disillusioned. That's a blue face, or 75-80% happiness. The percentage chance to get a point is high, but it's not 100%. First level is one point, second is two, third is four.

To get good farming traits, build farms. Good mining, build mines. Good trading, build trade stuff - including roads.

To get GoodAdministrator (Budding Bureaucrat, Skilled Bureaucrat, etc.) there are several different triggers. You get a chance every time you finish a building or train a unit while taxes are high or very high. You get another chance if taxes are very high and happiness is disillusioned, like above. You also get a chance every turn your taxes are very high, the people are happy (105% or higher), and your character has been in that town more than three turns.

To get the Architect line of traits, or the ancillary, all you have to do is build stuff and be present when it's completed. Tax level doesn't matter. There's three levels, 12 points for the first, 24 for second, 42 for third. Most buildings give you one point, with 100% chance to get that point. Some buildings give you a lot more: ports, roads, walls all give a high chance for extra points (you always get one, for any building). The highest level gives a 15% reduction to building costs, and a reduction in squalor. Combined with the Architect ancillary, which you'll almost certainly get sometime, and which can be transferred if need be, that adds up to a whopping 35% off construction cost and -4 to squalor. If your character also happens to be a Total Cheapskate, it's a total of 50% off, and you still get a net -2 to squalor, and a +15% to taxes. So, if someone in your kingdom ends up getting the Cheap trait, rejoice... make them be the guy in town whenever a building is completed and next thing you know, you'll be saving money hand over fist!

You will need to construct military buildings now because of Rhun is becoming more offensive. Swordsmen are very decent units.

On it!

Well you just have to remember that the archers are Dale`s backbone so be sure to use them! If your archers are being charged, then counter charge by making them go in melee. You can do this by pressing Alt + RMB.

I almost never deploy archers without melee infantry either immediately behind them or a little ways in front. When the enemy charges my archers, my archers move back and my infantry charges forward. Once behind the lines, my archers resume firing at enemy archers or skirmishes in the back of the enemy position, while my cavalry moves into place for a charge from the rear, and my flanking infantry moves up the sides. If my archers end up in melee, I figure I've already done something wrong.

I make exceptions, sometimes, for the High Elves Noretimo Warriors, because despite the bows they ARE the professional infantry, but Dale's archers aren't really suited to melee combat, so I have them avoid it like the plague.

So far I'm finding that which enough archers (4x Longbowmen, 2x Hunters, 1x Athala Rangers, 1x General), Heath Watchmen (x5) and Yeomen (x3) are more than capable of holding off anything Rhun has thrown at me yet, including two full stacks in one turn. It probably helps that my general has 7 Dread, so the enemy is fairly quick to rout, even the Loke units.

Are the dwarves in the west a faction as well? because if so then you can use those against OOG and OOTMM.

Yep, Dwarves of Ered Luin. They and FPoE (and Vale of Anduin) are dealing with Gundabad.

I did not know Thranduils Halls had an own faction so if that is the case then yes, you should try to attack Rhun. Be aware of the fact that if your cities bordering Dol Goldur only have 1 unit in them the AI will try to attack your city, so be sure to have some spies keeping them under watch!

Yep. Mirkwood. With the Silvans split into two factions (Mirkwood and Lorien) it makes it both easier and harder. Both reams are more compact, so they don't lose money to corruption, but they're also both pretty weak. I think both have had at least one region added to the map to compensate. Anyway, I am holding the wooden castle north of Dol Guldur with my best general (Legolas!) and 12 units. Mordor so far shows no interest in advancing toward me there, and the Nazgul who normally hangs around Mirkwood ended up being captured (yes, captured!) in head to head combat with Boromir down in Gondor (Mordor refused to pay the ransom, so he got executed... not sure how exactly, but he did).

Anyway, FRoGS is based on FRoME, which was unfortunately not updated for 3.2 and won't be. FRoME was fantastic; FRoGS will be when the bugs are hammered out, but it's got a ways to go yet. I've been correcting things in my installation as I play. I tentatively recommend it, but if you ever decide to do so before the next patch for it comes out, let me know and I'll either give you a list of things that need to be fixed or I'll just send you my data files as I've modified them (but not all the modifications are fixing things, some are changes just for my enjoyment, including adding quite a few new trait triggers).

[The Norseman]

Dale has a Market, Port, Dirt Roads, and Crop Rotation, so the city infrastructure isn't that well developed. Population = 9383. Taxes on Very High, bringing in 2553 gold/turn on turn 42, breakdown as follows:

Yeah then it is different from 3.2 Dale has got about 4000 population and at turn 40 about 6000 if you have a really good governor. By having more population you also get more money from taxes.

I almost never deploy archers without melee infantry either immediately behind them or a little ways in front. When the enemy charges my archers, my archers move back and my infantry charges forward. Once behind the lines, my archers resume firing at enemy archers or skirmishes in the back of the enemy position, while my cavalry moves into place for a charge from the rear, and my flanking infantry moves up the sides. If my archers end up in melee, I figure I've already done something wrong.

I make exceptions, sometimes, for the High Elves Noretimo Warriors, because despite the bows they ARE the professional infantry, but Dale's archers aren't really suited to melee combat, so I have them avoid it like the plague.

Yeah I meant it like a last solution

Anyway, FRoGS is based on FRoME, which was unfortunately not updated for 3.2 and won't be. FRoME was fantastic; FRoGS will be when the bugs are hammered out, but it's got a ways to go yet. I've been correcting things in my installation as I play. I tentatively recommend it, but if you ever decide to do so before the next patch for it comes out, let me know and I'll either give you a list of things that need to be fixed or I'll just send you my data files as I've modified them (but not all the modifications are fixing things, some are changes just for my enjoyment, including adding quite a few new trait triggers).

Hmmm maybe I should download it and test it out...

I can expand on this. The GoodTaxman trait has three levels, 10, 20, and 30% bonus respectively, and is one of the easiest traits to get. The trigger is being governor of a town when it finishes a building while taxes are set to Very High and happiness is Disillusioned. That's a blue face, or 75-80% happiness. The percentage chance to get a point is high, but it's not 100%. First level is one point, second is two, third is four.

To get good farming traits, build farms. Good mining, build mines. Good trading, build trade stuff - including roads.

To get GoodAdministrator (Budding Bureaucrat, Skilled Bureaucrat, etc.) there are several different triggers. You get a chance every time you finish a building or train a unit while taxes are high or very high. You get another chance if taxes are very high and happiness is disillusioned, like above. You also get a chance every turn your taxes are very high, the people are happy (105% or higher), and your character has been in that town more than three turns.

To get the Architect line of traits, or the ancillary, all you have to do is build stuff and be present when it's completed. Tax level doesn't matter. There's three levels, 12 points for the first, 24 for second, 42 for third. Most buildings give you one point, with 100% chance to get that point. Some buildings give you a lot more: ports, roads, walls all give a high chance for extra points (you always get one, for any building). The highest level gives a 15% reduction to building costs, and a reduction in squalor. Combined with the Architect ancillary, which you'll almost certainly get sometime, and which can be transferred if need be, that adds up to a whopping 35% off construction cost and -4 to squalor. If your character also happens to be a Total Cheapskate, it's a total of 50% off, and you still get a net -2 to squalor, and a +15% to taxes. So, if someone in your kingdom ends up getting the Cheap trait, rejoice... make them be the guy in town whenever a building is completed and next thing you know, you'll be saving money hand over fist!

Sounds good! Maybe you could do a guide on how to receive traits? That way I can add it to the Guide Compilation thread and more people can take use of these advices. Not very many people know how to get a hold of these traits.

[avenging angel]

Will u be doing anymore guides norse?

[The Norseman]

Will u be doing anymore guides norse?

Yep, as soon as I find myself some time to do it I will!

[Incomitatus]

Yeah then it is different from 3.2 Dale has got about 4000 population and at turn 40 about 6000 if you have a really good governor. By having more population you also get more money from taxes.

Ah... that isn't FRoGS, that's me. I tweaked population growth upward just a bit, let governors get up to +1.5% instead of just +0.5% from Respect, and I gave the health bonus back to the brothel (+0.5%) and restored the 0.5% trade bonus to growth, too. So, Dale has been getting roughly 1% more (it hasn't been getting the trade bonus and only 0.5% from the governor) growth/turn compounding since about turn 10 when I made the changes. I'm considering tweaking it back down a bit.

Also note, population size has an influence on trade income, too. Not as much as on taxes, but it's there.

Sounds good! Maybe you could do a guide on how to receive traits? That way I can add it to the Guide Compilation thread and more people can take use of these advices. Not very many people know how to get a hold of these traits.

I could, but it really would be repeating a LOT of work others have done before. Specifically, this guide, which is for vanilla M2TW, but very little is changed in TATW. Perhaps a very brief overview of the few things that are different would be called for, though.

[Bowmaster]

I'm trying a Dale campaign once again. I have Dale, Esgaroth, Riverrun, Grasgard, Araw, Dorwinion, Rhovanost and Uldonavan. I gifted Kugavod to the dwarves, though I had big losses during the battle of Kugavod.

[The Norseman]

I'm trying a Dale campaign once again. I have Dale, Esgaroth, Riverrun, Grasgard, Araw, Dorwinion, Rhovanost and Uldonavan. I gifted Kugavod to the dwarves, though I had big losses during the battle of Kugavod.

I think giving the dwarves Kugavod will do you good. If the city culture is dwarven then they will probably begin to recruit armies there soon and if not they will send down troops anyways. If you have all those cities I would say you are on the right track!

[Bowmaster]

Um, sorry, I was in a hurry (personal stuff, I've always wanted to post that) and forgot to mention why I posted that. So, which place should I take next? And does it have Garrison Script?

[brasswire]

Um, sorry, I was in a hurry (personal stuff, I've always wanted to post that) and forgot to mention why I posted that. So, which place should I take next? And does it have Garrison Script?

I vote for Burh Ermanarikis. You want to do as much damage to Rhun as early in the game as you can. It also gives you a bit of a tactical advantage as you can defend the bridge crossings nearby, and not have to face Rhun in the open field.

[Arodi]

I tried my first Dale campaign yesterday on VHVH. I figured my best bet would be to take Rhuns highest money makers (Mist rand and L est) asap. My strategy was to build a shipwright in Es garoth to quickly spam boats and have them ferry my armies down to the Sea of Rhuns south coast. Using 4 boats, I took them on turn 19.

[baggers]

First time I try Dale... look a piece of cake!

Dale-rush genarals tips (VH/VH):

- Alway adopt everyone that want come in your familly... with these wonderfuls armored archers. These are your best units, and theyr replenish capability is unvaluable in a rush strategic.

- Alway assault at turn 2 of any siege: you don't have time for any siege: one turn lost is: One more turn to pay for an unuseful army besieging, and 1 turn more for your enemy to reorganize. Better lost half your besieging army than lost one turn. Really.

- When an siege is done, pillaging (you need money): build these funny engraved stones, lower taxe to min, keep 1 unit (preferably not a full one), ond continue deeper in the rhun territory. 85%+ is fine.

- 2 to 3 spies: they are expansives, but worth it to know where you go. Alway try to figth armies outsides town if you can. Alway send your spy to your next target, and look how many reinforcements/garnison rhun have.

- 1 diplomat, for wandering and counsil missions.

- You have 2 main attack directions from Dale:
* one full east until reaching the map border, then full south, the main attack. At first, send everyone here. You should have an half stack+, half familly membrers, half other things. It's enougth for making Turkish delight appetizing Piques of every army you encounter.
* On south-southweast: you can wait a bit before sending troops in that direction. In fact, start regroup troop here when troops build a your first cities look they cannot reach the main assault in less than 4-5 turns.

Only the main rhun capital has a small garnison scrit of 3 units.

Building priorities: troops. Anything. half pikes half archers seem to work well. a pair of cavalery is OK, but keep them out of the rain of death: use only for pursuiing or extreme emergency. Build road first.

On the battle, you alway outclass rhun by number of archer, so, just find a position (starting position is fine), first line is familly Dale archers, second line is javeliners/pikes, third is archers. Sometimes, fisrt line is pikes, depends of the swag. Sometimes, I just keep the starting organisation.

Oh: alway hire any mercenaries awailable: they cheap, because you don't have to pays 3-4 turns of ukpeed of an unit wandering on the map before coming to the front lines.

Build some watch tower, especially just before frontiers.

Use roads.

For the last 2-3 towns, the extreme south town is way outside my supply lines and the siege of town east mordor left my army with 5 family members and 2 half-units of archers. I just have send a spy and found 4 units in the town, so I send only the 5 family members (Barde included): by the time they besiege the town, it has 6 units: Because it was the last rhun town in this region, I just have let the siege go to his end and win.
At the same time, the 2 last towns and stack of ennemy was destroyed on the south-west of Dale from the new main force/reinforcements. Turn 44 began.

[baggers]

I forgot: change your capital to the Rhun capital when possible.

[AWPscrape]

I am now preparing to play as Dale, when the new version of DaC comes out and I trust this to help. I know DaC changes a lot and there are new players in the area, but when I played as Dale in TATW, I have struggled so hopefully, I won't now. I have much more experience and I have read. Thank you a lot!