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Thread: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

  1. #1

    Icon2 The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    The Kingdom of Dale - Guide


    Hello everyone. My favourite faction in Third Age Total War is Dale and I have heard several people are having difficulties playing it and that is why I have decided to create a Dale Guide for those of you who have given up on the faction or just have yet to experience its campaign. I have played the Dale campaign three times and two times captured half of the Middle Earth so I want to give you my knowledge about Dale and its first turns. If you wish me to play on to show you more guidance then just ask for it and I will try to find some time for it.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    This is Dale, your kingdom. You start with only 4 regions, but no worries. You have King Bard. A fantastic general capable of defeating the mightiest of enemies. Economy is the first factor you need to take into account when playing Dale. Build markets or roads in Dale, Grasgard and Esgaroth to begin with. I prefer starting with markets as their constructiontime is much lower than when constructing roads. You also need to be careful about spending too much of your treasury in the beginning if your campaign, you will need money for your troops. In Riverrun I suggest you build a town watch as you still have a decent amount of money left in your treasury. It may come in handy later on in the game if Rhun is closing in on you and you are in desperate need of more men.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    I first move King Bard and all of his men south along with all the men from Esgaroth towards Araw. I also move all units from Riverrun to meet King Bards army as the army closes in on Araw. Recruit units in all cities, you will need more reinforcements following King Bard later. I move all the men from Grasgard towards Araw and recruit the mercenaries. Mercenaries are rare in Middle Earth and most of them are heavy infantry or heavy cavalry so be sure to buy them if you can afford it! Before you end your turn, you might want to use your spy to check out the rebel army. Not only will that give you a heads up on what the rebel army contains, but it also gives your spy some experience and sometimes it gives your factionleader 1+ in command when using spies. Enough of turn 1, press end turn and prepare yourself for the second turn.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    It is turn two and you will soon experience your first battle as Dale. Use your general from Grasgard and siege the fortress of Araw. It is a key city and you will definitely need it later on in the game. It borders seven regions and can potentially trade with all of them provided you either own the surrounding regions or obtain a trade agreement with a faction owning some of these regions. Araw is a castle and can thus deliver more troops quickly as well as it gives your free upkeep for some of the units garrisoned in the castle. Like other important regions, Araw can offer you special features. Go to the Castle tab and right click on the book. It will tell you more about what this castle can offer.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Use your spy in the nearbyarea to scout for other cities in the nearby area. A bit further southwest you will find the city of Rhovanost. Its a town with about 1000 - 1300 inhabitants and potentially a moderately rich city.

    Move King Bard and his men further south and combine them with the army waiting for them there. In Dale, recruit a diplomat. You will need a good economy to support your armies and what better way to gain money than establishing trade agreements with other factions! You can also earn some extra money by offering map information for a low amount of money. You should also just make a trade agreement with The Orcs of The Misty Mountains as well. Since they are AI, they receive an AI bonus and have a huge treasury. Giving them a bit more money through trade will not help them significantly, but it will surely help you. End turn and lets move on to the third turn.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    It is turn three and you are sieging Araw with your army. King Bard should be close now. The market has been constructed in Grasgard. Now construct a road there. It will give you increased tradeable goods as well as it allows your troops to move faster. If you think you can win the battle of Araw without too many casualties, then go for it, but remember you will not be able to retrain those Athala Rangers for a long time. Sieging the castle for a while longer will also starve the enemy. They will lose men every turn until they surrender or sally out to meet your army. Note that if you do capture Araw, do not sack or exterminate it. I will come back to this later. Now move your diplomat from Dale and either go straight for the Silvan Elves in the northwest or try to earn some extra money from the dwarves, demanding money in exchange for your map information.

    Theres not much else you can do this turn other than raise some taxes. Worried about the population growth? Well, it doesent matter very much as you wont be able to upgrade any of your cities before turn eighty or hundred. It takes very long for your population to reach the requirements for upgrading your city/castle so you might as well increase the taxes, as long as the population happiness does not turn red. I put my taxes at high because I want there to be some population growth. End turn.

    It is turn four and King Bard should now be in reach of Araw. If you have not captured Araw yet, now is the time. You may either combine King Bard`s army with the one already sieging Araw or head straight for Rhovanost. That is your choice. If you capture Araw now, you can build more essential buildings which you will need in your inevitable war against Rhun. If you capture it repair the damages done and construct Garrison Quarters. It will enable you to build Dalesmen and improve the public order. Move your Grasgard general, who probably has no loyalty at all towards the outer border of your region and construct some watchtowers just in case Rhun tries to rush you. Remember to move your diplomat before you end your turn. Ask for an alliance, trade agreement and possibly some money if you feel lucky. End your turn!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    It is turn five and you dont know where to head. You have three ways to travel. Southwest towards Rhovanost, south towards Uldonavan or east towards Dorwinion. I usually travel to Dorwinion because I want to let the reinforcements from the northern cities to take that city. So I move King Bard and his men towards the east. Note that you may be offered to capture Rhovanost for about 1,5 k. If you are in need of some quick money then head there. In Esgaroth you should construct a Leather Tanner. It seems tempting to buy the stables, but if you do that you cannot afford to construct Town Guard the next turn and you will need that more than stables at the moment. End turn.

    It is turn six and you are now close to Rhovanost or Dorwinion. As you will notice in your campaign, other factions are interested in Dorwinion as well and it is a good reason for that. Dorwinion can potentially be one of your richest cities. Not only does it have valuable resources, it also has a port and can trade with the other cities bordering the Sea of Rhun. Its population should be approximately 1800 - 1900 and it means that it is soon able to upgrade to a large town. You need to take it quickly, but dont be too hasty, there are several units in the city and the governor of the city has often got
    4/5 + command. Recruit some more men in your cities before you end your turn and dont forget about your diplomat!

    It is turn seven and not much is happening. Construct a Town Guard in Esgaroth, recruit some more men and siege Dorwinion. You should not attack Dorwinion too soon as Rhun might just appear with a full stack and take advantage of your army losses. Sometimes, if you are very lucky, the Dwarves will come from their mountains and attack Rhun, allowing you to focus on the west.

    Turn eight will be a bit uneventful. Recruit some more troops and prepare to move your men south towards Araw. At turn nine, move all your men from Dale and Esgaroth towards Araw. You will now take Rhovanost. You can still make the mission to take Rhovanost before time runs out!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    It is turn eleven and the rebels at Dorwinion have sallied out to meet you. I suggest you play the battle as autoresolving will leave you with a lot of unecessary casualties. The battle should not be too hard. Move your infantry infront, archers behind. You dont have time to move the archers infront as the enemy will rush you. Send the cav behind the enemy lines and charge them as soon as they clash with your infantry, that should have them routing. Now Dorwinion should be yours. It has a lot of potential to become a rich city. Remember not to sack or exterminate it. This is because high populations are rare in Middle Earth and the population growth is slow. You need every inhabitant you can get. More population = more people paying taxes = more income for you! Now construct a town watch, a grain exchange or roads. Use your units from Araw and unite them with the army which have traveled from the northern cities. Now head that army in the direction of Rhovanost! The Town Guard in Esgaroth should be done by now, thus enabling you to recruit more units.

    It is turn fourteen and if the dwarves have no intention of helping you in the east you will have to do all the work yourself. Send your army towards Kugaovd and prepare to siege the city. It will be reinforced within the next two turns. Note this. If you have only one unit in a city bordering Rhun, they will notice and take advantage of it. They will always attack an unprotected region, so be sure that you are able to fight them back!

    You should be sieging Rhovanost by now as well and be ready to take it the next turn. Turn fifteen is when you take Rhovanost. Play the battle and capture it. Construct whatever you see fit. Now you might want to reinforce King Bard`s army before you move it further to the east towards Kugaovd. Perhaps the dwarves will come after some time? From Dorwinion you can rebuild and recruit more troops. At the same time you must move further south with your other army. Recruit a new spy and make sure Rhun does NOT take Uldonavan, which you can see where is on the picture below. It is one of the few big castles in the game and a key city in your war against Rhun. From there you will send out all your troops.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    If it has been attacked by Rhun and is almost defeated, then go for it, but if it has several undamaged troops, then wait for Rhun to take it and then strike as soon as they have wasted their men. Many times the best thing to do is just ignore Uldonavan and go straight for the other enemy cities. You could also move further south and sack some Rhun cities so they cant recruit enough units to face you. Always remember to retrain units as well. Dont use too much of your money on things you dont need. From now you should focus on military and building merchant wharfs, ports, fairgrounds etc. The choice is yours. What I have shown you so far should be enough to keep you on your foot for a while.

    Additional Tips:

    - Remember to have your capital in the center of your empire, it can increase your income and can potentially improve the public order as it shortens the distance to the capital.

    - Build Army Barracks in your largest cities. Dale has very weak units to begin with and Dale Swordsmen which you can recruit when having a level 3 barracks can help you a lot! Bardian Marksmen are also excellent units. Not only are they fantastic archers, but they also have a great defence/attack.

    - Recruit lots of spies. They can be used to open enemy gates, allowing you to make a direct attack on a settlement. Having spies also lets you know if another enemy is approaching you.

    - Mordor may interfere with your war with Rhun and randomly attack you from the west, so send a spy down there so that you can prepare in time.

    - Keep your allies alive. Gift them a region if necessary. You will be grateful when an enemy is attacking you and suddenly your allied faction appears with a whole stack next to your cities or the enemy cities.

    - You can gain some extra money by demanding money for your map information. Insignificant amount you say? Ask for money every 5 turn and you have gained thousands...

    - Sometime blitzing the enemy can be extremely helpful. The enemy is often willing to make peace if you take 2 or more settlements in one turn. Be aware of that this does not work all the time. The AI knows which one of you has the largest military and will take that into account.

    - These are the units most effective against Rhun:

    Archers:

    Rhun`s armies will consist mostly of skirmishers. They can only throw their javelins from a short distance and you therefore rely on archers to take them out before they reach you. The skirmishers have low armor, low melee and a short range of fire, though when they are in range and throw their javelins, you will have a lot of casualties. That is why these archers on the picture below are ideal for your war against Rhun. The Longbowmen and the Athala Rangers can fire from a very long distance, and their melee is not that bad, though it is advisable that you keep them away from melee for as long as possible, their arrows will deliver more damage to the enemy. The Bardian Marksmen are fantastic archers, not only do they have a great accuracy, but if an enemy unit charges them, they can repel them and sometimes easily. With 10 attack-points and 11 defence-points, The Bardian Marksmen can defeat most of your enemies. Dont go charging in with them all of the time now, they are rare units and the recruitment-time is long.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Infantry:

    Hearth Watchmen is the unit you will recruit the most in the beginning of your campaign, though it can not deal much damage to the enemy and that is why you should upgrade your barracks so that you may recruit the infantry units on the picture below. After a while I suggest you begin recruiting Rivermen, because very much like the Rhun skirmishers, the Rivermen can inflict a lot of casualties on the enemy troops. Their attack and defence - points are also pretty decent so dont be afraid to send them into melee fights. Dalesmen are not heavy infantry but you need them to charge the enemy if they get to close to your Rivermen. Now you come to the units you will rely on the most, Dale Swordsmen. With good attack and defence - points they can defeat strong enemy units. Your should have about 4 or 5 of these units in your armies. The finest Dale infantry is in my opinion the Dale Swordmasters with their excellent attack and defence, but you must not recruit too many of these. If you do, you may soon find yourself in a financial recession where you can only support one army with these sort of men. If you have mixed armies with the units on the picture below, you can support up to 3 armies and still have a great economy. Remember to retrain your units if they have a lot of experience. It gives them more morale and attack - points. The Gadrauhts are a decent type of units and in some cases more effective than the Dale Swordsmen and especially when facing opposing armies with cavalry. I simply decide not to use them because after having spent an eternity using spearmen I get tired of them as well as I feel like they are not good enough when they face heavy infantry. However, I do believe you should have these units when defending in a siege, because they will prove themselves to be valuable when the enemy is running through the gate and you will notice your Gadrauhts will hold them off until they have been overrun.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Cavalry:

    Dale cavalry isnt particularly good other than the Earls who have great defence stats. They are expensive so dont recruit them unless you know your treasury can handle it. Most of the time I just use the Yeomen. They are fast and useful to hit your enemies from the rear or to simply route the enemy archers. They are also very cheap for cavalry units and their upkeep is not very high. You will need the Yeomen against Rhun`s skirmishers. One unit can make a whole lot of difference. Look on the picture below for more information!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The pictures used above are from brandybarrel`s Palantir Unit Guide which you can find Here!
    Anyways, I hope you have liked my guide and please comment if you have any questions or ideas!
    Last edited by The Norseman; September 06, 2012 at 09:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Bowmaster's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    What is it that you are playing? 3.2? 3.1?

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    3.2, but this will also work for 3.1 if you are wondering

  4. #4
    dannyalex's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    a clean 3.xx version or with sub mod also?

    cause:
    You will be grateful when an enemy is attacking you and suddenly your allied faction appears with a whole stack next to your cities or the enemy cities.

    If u say the dwarves they didnt help me in the last campaign
    Most Chivalrous commander 2020-2021

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    I used the clean installment now, though Im sure it will work for sub-mods provided that nothing has changed too much.

    Im talking about Rohan. They are often defeated by Isengard and since Dale and Rohan have the same culture, they also receive 4-5 troops when you gift them a settlement, note that the settlement must have above 60-70% Northmen culture to receive troops. If it is below you will sometime not receive any troops at all.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    I tried dale campaign VH and VH but is impossible to win.

    I won 50 fights and lost 4, I control 7 cities (including uldonawan), I have commercial rights and alliances with Rohan, Gondor, Arnor, High Elves, Silvan Elves, Dwarves, and commercial rights with mordor. The only enemy is the Ruhr, which can count on more money and more troops. Now I have -4000 money and armies of ruhr are crossing borders .. So....



    Imminent defeat .


    OR



    Add_money 99999999999 Muhaahah


    Feel like a boss .

  7. #7
    dannyalex's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    "dont be hasty''
    Most Chivalrous commander 2020-2021

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    After playing another Dale campaign recently I feel like I realized that the key to beating Rhun isn't really taking Uldonavan like I previously thought (although it is part of it). The key IMHO is to keep pushing past that and take Buhr Ermanarikis and Mistrand as quickly as possible. That is the only way to have a hope of defeating Rhun once their economy gets cooking. Once you take out Mistrand it tips the economic balance enough that you should be able to keep up with the Rhun stack spam and eventually grind them out. It's a race against the clock, and if you don't take out Mistrand in time then the Rhun economic machine eventually becomes too powerful to have any hope of fighting against.
    Last edited by brasswire; August 08, 2012 at 04:40 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    Yeah thats why I suggested that you do not take Uldonavan and rather wait for Rhun to take it. I also did not take Uldonavan until I had taken Rhuns other cities. Tough it is a great military citadel and it can help you a lot. Both ingame as well. The citadel is so big it gives you a huge advantage. If you play the battles you will definitely win!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    I'm playing a Dale campaign atm (turn 99, the Dragon of the East has been driven south to Harad by the Arrow of the North ) and I agree. My moves where Araw, Kugavod, Rhomen, Dorwinion, Burh Emarkisis, Uldonavan, Rhovanion, South Rhovanion and after that Rhun just started failing. King Bard is currently leading his armies towards South Khand and afterwards Harad will get it's fishes hot
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  11. #11

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    I'm playing a Dale campaign atm (turn 99, the Dragon of the East has been driven south to Harad by the Arrow of the North ) and I agree. My moves where Araw, Kugavod, Rhomen, Dorwinion, Burh Emarkisis, Uldonavan, Rhovanion, South Rhovanion and after that Rhun just started failing. King Bard is currently leading his armies towards South Khand and afterwards Harad will get it's fishes hot
    Good to hear! The real fun is when you get to fight Mordor They have some really cool troops and many times they use units with little armor so when your archers fire their arrows, some actually die on the first volley.

    Good luck!

  12. #12
    Libertus
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    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    Quote Originally Posted by brasswire View Post
    After playing another Dale campaign recently I feel like I realized that the key to beating Rhun isn't really taking Uldonavan like I previously thought (although it is part of it). The key IMHO is to keep pushing past that and take Buhr Ermanarikis and Mistrand as quickly as possible. That is the only way to have a hope of defeating Rhun once their economy gets cooking. Once you take out Mistrand it tips the economic balance enough that you should be able to keep up with the Rhun stack spam and eventually grind them out. It's a race against the clock, and if you don't take out Mistrand in time then the Rhun economic machine eventually becomes too powerful to have any hope of fighting against.

    I did take Uldonavan before the others but I agree. But after getting Huhr Ermanarikis I got the stackspam. I decided to make a push and risk losing a city to take Mistrand to take out the Rhun warmachine and it worked pretty nicely. They only have three settlements left. I must say that I was helped by the dwarves. The've been keeping Rhun busy on the northeast front (although taking only one city)

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    I love these guides! They give me some great new ideas for all my campaigns. When talking about Dale's infantry you never mention the Gadrauhts which can be recruited in Uldanavan fairly early in the game. Do you prefer to only use Dale Swordsmen?

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    I love these guides! They give me some great new ideas for all my campaigns. When talking about Dale's infantry you never mention the Gadrauhts which can be recruited in Uldanavan fairly early in the game. Do you prefer to only use Dale Swordsmen?
    The Gadrauhts are a decent type of units and in some cases more effective than the Dale Swordsmen when facing cavalry opponents. I simply decide not to use them because after having spent an eternity using spearmen I get tired of them as well as I feel like they are not good enough when they face heavy infantry.

    I am glad you liked it and thanks for reminding me! I had forgotten to include the Gadrauhts!

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    Quote Originally Posted by lax15 View Post
    I love these guides! They give me some great new ideas for all my campaigns. When talking about Dale's infantry you never mention the Gadrauhts which can be recruited in Uldanavan fairly early in the game. Do you prefer to only use Dale Swordsmen?
    I agree, I find the Gadraughts to be about the same effectiveness as Dale Swordsmen. They're a bit more survivable and are more effectiveness against cavalry, but have less offensive punch than the swordsmen against other infantry units. I think the best advice is to just build as many of both types as you can when you first get them because you need every advantage when fighting Rhun.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    In my Dale campaign I probably did a mistake of army composition.. I had armies of hearth watchmen which suffer horribly when attacking cities or above average units... the problem is replacing them with the only other decent infantry unit that I have, swordsmen is very slow... needing barracks and strangely for the unit thats supposed to be the backbone of dales army need 2 turns to train...

    and even though my economy is heavily developed.. lvl 2 farms + markets + roads in all cities I cant train any more swordsmen without disbanding hearth watchmen which I already need to defend my borders while I train swordsmen..

    its a circle

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    In my Dale campaign I probably did a mistake of army composition.. I had armies of hearth watchmen which suffer horribly when attacking cities or above average units... the problem is replacing them with the only other decent infantry unit that I have, swordsmen is very slow... needing barracks and strangely for the unit thats supposed to be the backbone of dales army need 2 turns to train...

    and even though my economy is heavily developed.. lvl 2 farms + markets + roads in all cities I cant train any more swordsmen without disbanding hearth watchmen which I already need to defend my borders while I train swordsmen..

    its a circle
    Hmmm did you remember to change the capital? It costs 5000 but you will make a lot more money in the long hold. Can I see your campaign map? You might not afford to have enough swordsmen because you have captured unwealthy regions...

  18. #18
    Incomitatus's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    So, uh, Norseman, as the resident Dale expert... how bad is it if I turtled instead of rushed? I'm playing with FRoGS, with a few minor modifications of my own, nothing that should drastically change Dale's campaign. I'm playing a hotseat campaign with myself, controlling all of the 'good' factions - so I know I can count on support from the Dwarves and Mirkwood, because I'm them, but my Dwarves are currently tied up with the OoTMM and Gundabad/Angmar and Mirkwood is just not that strong (they can't expand into the Vale of Anduin because, well, the Vale of Anduin faction is there in FRoGS) and they don't have the income from Lorien because it's split into it's own faction). Actually given how Rhun has exploded across the east, Thranduil's elves (er... my elves) are eyeing the Mirkwood border with some trepidation. I try to keep each faction's interests separate in my mind, and I can just imagine the Mirkwood diplomat, "Uh, no, terribly sorry King Bard, but we can't spare any soldiers, we need to preserve all we can for when you get overrun... er, I mean... for homeland defence. From spiders. Terrible spiders we've got in Mirkwood, yessir, huge ones."

    Anyway, situation is this, the only territory I took was Araw and then I settled down to internal development. Rhun has taken all the rest of old Rhovanian, except for the East Bight, that's still rebel for now (and so are the two Dorwinion settlements, they've shown no interest in taking them, and I didn't either). They also have Kugovod and that other castle to the east. I've held off raids and one major incursion by several armies (from both the south and east at the same time), but my spies show four full stacks on their way (three from the south, one from the east) and I know there'll just be more and more and more behind those. The faction ranking scroll tells me I have 24% of Rhun's military power. I've played TotalWar since the original Medieval days, and I have to say the last time I felt this set-upon was in turn 2 of an Rome: Total Realism when all of my neighbours invaded while I was playing Armenia.

    This isn't my first time playing Dale like this, but in the past I've always been able to secure a truce with Rhun, this time they're having none of it. So... I need to know... in your opinion, should I a) enlist the aid of the Dwarves and strike the first blow to the east toward Kugavod or b) enlist the aid of Mirkwood and try to retake all of old Rhovanion or c) cry?

    Oh, and don't get me wrong, I'm loving when Dale's turn comes around, I like nearly hopeless situations!
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  19. #19

    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    So, uh, Norseman, as the resident Dale expert... how bad is it if I turtled instead of rushed?
    Dale have really unwealthy cities so you should have expanded while you still had the oppertunity to do so without having Rhun attacking you. Now Rhun has been able to expand in peace and by doing so he will also have very important cities such as Dorwinion(a potentially very rich city) and the huge castle called Uldonavan. Now Rhun has both an enormous amount of money as well as cities from which he can send LOTS of units from. If you have only focused on economy as Dale then you will struggle quite a lot, but if you focused on military as well you might have a good chance. If one Dale army with some good units in it is used correctly, you could beat all four stacks, but remember to send reinforcements to that army as quickly as possible. What I would recommend now is that if you do not have Araw, place an army on either a high hill or a river with a bridge on the campaign map. By having the height advantage as well as superior archers, Rhun`s armies will probably flee before they have even reached you, provided that the hill is steep enough. Just by having the Rhun units walk up the hill will make them exhausted and by using fire arrows when they come close will cause them to rout. If you can find a river with a bridge, it will also give you a great advantage because you only need 2 infantry units to hold off their army on the other side of the bridge while you have your archers fire at the enemy from their right and left. Because all their men will be charging at once the bridge will be flooded with enemies, and by doing so your arrows will nearly always hit them.

    but my spies show four full stacks on their way (three from the south, one from the east) and I know there'll just be more and more and more behind those.
    One the stacks from the south will probably be used for rebel cities, while the other two will most likely be sent towards you. The one in the east, if it is Kugaovd you are talking about, will probably go for Grasgard. The AI will go for any enemy city if they are bordering one, ESPECIALLY if that region is not well protected. If you only have 2 - 3 units there they will most likely attack that city.


    This isn't my first time playing Dale like this, but in the past I've always been able to secure a truce with Rhun, this time they're having none of it. So... I need to know... in your opinion, should I a) enlist the aid of the Dwarves and strike the first blow to the east toward Kugavod or b) enlist the aid of Mirkwood and try to retake all of old Rhovanion or c) cry?
    Well you could send some dwarven units south and help out a bit. The dwarven units are very powerful, but this is mostly in autoresolve. Ingame they might be difficult to use because of their speed, but if you are defending they will do a great job. Do not send troops from Mirkwood, you will need to concentrate on OOTMM. If you are at turn 40 - 60 this is when OOTMM will start to pump out endless waves of units. You should try to defeat them before they really begin to grow. If you do have OOTMM under control you could try it, but then you should also have most of the Elven cities in Mirkwood.

    The thing is that since you are playing a hotseat the dwarves are no longer AI and will thus not spawn armies as they normally would. Now you rely on yourself and since you have turned Dwarves human they do not have the AI bonus. However, your bonus is that you are smarter then the AI(hopefully) and can win the battles which the AI would normally lose...

    I hope this will suffice, if not then just ask me more!
    Last edited by The Norseman; September 18, 2012 at 10:22 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: The Kingdom of Dale - Campaign Guide for H/H & VH/VH

    Quote Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
    Dale have really unwealthy cities ... If you have only focused on economy as Dale then you will struggle quite a lot, but if you focused on military as well you might have a good chance... What I would recommend now is that if you do not have Araw, place an army on either a high hill or a river with a bridge on the campaign map.
    Thanks for the input! Now,...

    1. I disagree a bit about Dale's wealth. Both Dale and Esgaroth are, or can be, extremely wealthy cities. I'm pulling in 2500+ / turn from Dale, and 1400+ /turn from Esgaroth on turn 41. A better governor could get more out of Esgaroth, but one works with what one has. The trick is to train up governors, especially the GoodTaxman, GoodFarmer, and GoodTrader lines. Also, focusing on population growth as long as possible. It's also only a matter of time before someone gets an Architect ancillary and when that happens, pair it up with the Staua of Dale item and get 30% off all construction. The Dale homelands are a small enough area that you can have one dedicated 'builder' general running around placing all the construction orders with the discount - that really gets good bang for buck.

    1a. Anyway, that's why I really didn't expand, the other times I've played a huge multi-faction campaign like this, I've been able to get peach with Rhun and Dale has been basically a bank for the other factions, funnelling money wherever needed. This is more or less my first practical experience in fighting with Dale's army.

    2. I mostly did focus on economy, and growth, but I made sure I had access to new Longbowmen and Yeomen right away. I now have access to Dale Swordsmen from Buhr Marhlinge and I should have them from Esgaroth soon. I can get Hunters and Rivermen from all over the place.

    3. I DO have Araw. It's the one territory I took. I thought that would provide a good defence on the southern border, but the AI has been bypassing it and going straight for Grasgard every time. This has actually been working out okay for me, since the garrison at Araw can go out and fight in the field and has a safe place to retreat to if it doesn't go their way.

    4. What's been working less well have been bridge battles: there haven't been any. There are simply too many armies coming from too many directions across too many crossings. Brand has been trying to lure them into a bridge battle for several turns and they keep going around his army and attacking either Grasgard or Buhr Marhlinge directly. I've been forced to beef up Buhr Marhlinge's garrison to be independent of my field army, because I can't be in both places at once. This is because of how freakin' far Rhun's armies can move in a turn. I never played vanilla 3.2 so I'm not sure if this is a FRoGS feature, but Rhun's territories start with tier 3 roads - Highways - in them. Even with watchtowers on the border and spies deeper in, I have trouble seeing far enough into their territory to know everything coming my way 1-2 turns out.

    To sum up the who-owns-what situation: I know FRoGS adds some regions, but I'm not sure exactly where/which. Dorwinion has two regions in my game: Dorwinion, the town, and Riavod, the wooden castle on the other side of the river. Both are still in rebel hands. I didn't take them, and neither has Rhun. They tried once or twice, got beaten back and now seem to be entirely focused on me instead. I hold Araw. Buhr Widu is held by rebels still. All the other lands to the south are held by Rhun except Rhunost (still rebel, but besieged by Mordor at the moment). So yeah, I'm massively outmatched, that makes it fun.

    Well you could send some dwarven units south and help out a bit.
    I think that's my plan, actually to send them east, when I can, but my Dwarven army is currently in the Grey Mountains, rooting out OoTMM's northern settlements. Best I can hope for right now is to give Dale some money from time to time, but the Dwarven treasury is running on fumes: Dale actually has more free capital to work with every turn at the moment, the Dwarves have a large army in the field to pay for. Perhaps by turn 60 (currently turn 41) I can get another army together to help.

    Do not send troops from Mirkwood, you will need to concentrate on OOTMM. If you are at turn 40 - 60 this is when OOTMM will start to pump out endless waves of units. You should try to defeat them before they really begin to grow. If you do have OOTMM under control you could try it, but then you should also have most of the Elven cities in Mirkwood.
    This is actually where I'm in great shape. Because there is a Vale of Anduin faction in FRoGS, the OoTMM are no threat to Mirkwood, the Beornings are a nice buffer. Besides which, I've been keeping OoTMM busy with the High Elves, Lorien, and the Dwarves.

    The elves hold all of Mirkwood except Dol Guldur. They aren't strong enough yet to deal with the garrison script, I need better units. So their sitting in a defensive posture and have about 3500 spare gold a turn that I'm investing in development, but I could just as easily either give some of it to Dale or build an army to show those Easterlings what real archery looks like! However, that said, Anduin just lost Framsburg to a Gundabad assault that came out of nowhere (first major battle lost this campaign, but I made 'em pay dearly for it - almost won, actually, but when my general got killed it went downhill). Given that Framsburg was Anduin's largest town and was garrisoned with (currently) irreplaceable elite troops, and the whole dang faction is now in much more trouble than Dale, I think any Mirkwood aid is going to have to go west before it goes east.

    The thing is that since you are playing a hotseat the dwarves are no longer AI and will thus not spawn armies as they normally would
    Yep, I also don't get the morale bonuses, the income bonuses, or the law bonuses that the AI gets. It makes it quite a challenge. When you're playing one faction and you are allied with a bunch of AIs, your intelligence can make up for their stupidity, while their stack spam covers the fact that you don't get those bonuses. When every 'good' faction is human controlled though, the complete lack of those AI bonuses on one entire side of the campaign makes for a real challenge, especially in the south and east. Doubly so if one doesn't rush, which I don't.

    This is the third time I've played a massive campaign like this, first time since v3 came out. Each time there's been a different faction that has ended up being the focus of the action. Well, secondary focus; Gondor is always the man focus, unavoidably. The first time it was Rohan, second time it was Lorien, this time it's Dale. I find myself most looking forward to Dale's turns, it's something new. But I do feel like David fighting Goliath!
    Homo sum: humani nihil a me alienum puto. - Terence

    My M2:TW 4TPY Script, Adapted to Work With Hotseat.


    Guides and Useful Posts of Mine
    Middle Earth Strategikon (M2:TW: TATW 3.2)(WIP: ~60% Complete)
    Advice on Playing as Gondor - Part I - Part II (M2:TW: TATW 3.2)
    Dirty Secret to Killing Trolls Fast and Easy (M2:TW: TATW)
    The Basics of Naval Engagements Part I - Part II (EMPIRE: DMUC)
    Roman Army Composition and Use (RTW: RTR Platinum)

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