Single Player Campaign Patch Impressions so far...

[Humble Warrior]

Well I`ve been running STW2 on Hard with the realistic settings on. I actually tried 4 games on Legendary and did relatively well as Aizu, but was ultimately overwhelmed. So, to save time and get a chance to see what`s changed (and not just the first 20 turns of a game) I went onto Hard which is challenging without feeling like the AI has an incredible financial boost. When I have the time, I WILL complete Legendary.

Although I discovered some slight changes to Legendary campaign mode which I`ll mention during my report.

Playing FOTS, realism settings. I chose Jozai. Perhaps the easiest of the Shogunates.

Campaign AI.

To me the CAI factions seem `tighter` for a word. I notice that once allied, they do appear to stick together a little more for support. For instant I attacked a nearby weak faction and sieged it and just on the turn it was about to cave in, an army from an enemy Ally rushed to give it last minute backup and break the siege. But the unit was too small and I defeated it easily. It basically wasted its troops to support the other.

Better examples occurred later in the game when things began to settle - Matsumae, a Northern-most Clan somehow grew huge (17 provinces compared to our 3-4) just after the early part of the game and Edo, Obama, Sado and my Clan (Josai) all Allied up and attacked the behemoth Matsumae. Edo and I did the most work taking provinces either side while Sado somehow came in from the top working down. Anyway, I was impressed by the cooperation of all the military allies. Pretty soon matsume was down from `Almighty` to `tiny` and begging for peace! what i liked about that was no one backstabbed eachother the whole time. It really felt like everyone was focused on the biggest threat and I was just one of them along for the ride.

So Allied AI cooperation is stronger if with you or against you. Sometimes I even get an Ally just following me around... at least, so it seems!

I also noticed AI armies are a little more sharper when you leave a city and head towards their territory. In fact, I saw one Faction (using my ninja as a spy) leave a city to intercept my army when I moved it to the border, but when I moved back, it retreated back too. I also saw it leave one of its cities but when I again moved towards its borders, it moved back into its city again.

Diplomacy feels tighter too, though I don`t know if that was changed. They don`t give anything away too easily, but will ask for peace if pushed, even on Legendary now. Seems reasonable to me with hard edge, that I like.

AI ships on the campaign map tend to vanish after battle to return later. Maybe they go to get repaired in a friendly port? Not sure, I assumed it was just during battles.

Battles.

Hard to find much to complain about in the battles I`ve had so far. The battle AI tends to like standing in trees on hills a lot now. I hate fighting in trees (that`s does not mean I want it got rid of, btw). I actually was forced to fight a battle in trees and won.

Sometimes if you attack it with artillery, there is a pause before it starts moving. I don`t mind this at all. In one particular battle, I had attacked an army of which I`d just assasinated its only General. I had two sets of cannons and a few troops to take him on with. He didn`t have many troops, so it was an equal fight except for my cannons. In the whole battle he just stood there and I pounded him with my cannons until he ran away. I`ve never seen that before. I`ve had quite a few battles since and it`s not done that again.

A bug? Or was that simulating `uncertainty` on the AI`s part? I hope so. Many times in real warfare, a commander has frozen when it comes to leadership and simply fail to order his men to do anything until too late. It would be nice if a bit of programmed`uncertainty` could mean that the army leadership might freeze, especially if there`s no General commanding them.

It does sometimes sit and get bombarded by cannon before deciding to attack. I suspect its an attempt to simulate `sitting out` the bombardment.

Also it was very reactive in a bridge battle. We were in a meat grinder battle on a bridge and the BAI had committed its forces to that meat grinder. I sent a small force around to flank him and to my surprise he pulled a contingent of his army and his General out, while leaving a main force fighting on the bridge and took my flank attack, destroying it, then returned to the bridge. I actually lost that one as my Ace in the hole tactic actually failed. I was quite surprised by that. Good.

Also still good at consolidating its forces. If you allow it time and it has reinforcements, it`ll get everyone together first before attacking. Correct.

Unfortunately, I noticed that while its good at using cannons (like Parrott guns) on defence and not moving, if it has to move, say to get closer, we get the bug where the AI cannot stop and set up its cannons. NEEDS FIXING, CA! Come on, you must know about this.

Sieges.

Sieges seem perfect in how they work so far. With Allies or alone. I haven`t had a problem on (No Timer) yet except maybe they look a little silly when fleeing in single file all down the hill! But they do the job, attacking from different sides with the General staying back until he has to join in. I do notice though, that the Generals never seems to just quit and leave any more when a fight is obviously lost. He always has to join in and die, even when he`s wavering. No idea if it works with proper tactics with cannons though.


Ship battles...

Difficult to see any improvements here yet. On defence the AI ships do still sit back and wait for me, so I just go wide and blast them. Also they aren`t too smart around island obstacles. I was attacked by 8 ships and I had only two. I hid my ships (one Corvette and one gunship) around a small coastal island. They all started shooting into the island, hitting nothing, while I patiently waited. One small gunship figured its way round to where my ships were hiding and was of course blown away since it didn`t stand a chance on its own.

The other 7 ships got stuck around the other side of the coast and even started hitting eachother, causing one to explode and others to waver and rout. By the end of that there were only about two functioning ships left so I just came out and finished them off! That was on my Legendary campaign! I even saved it on the Replay. However, I only saw that happen once, but hiding your ships around islands tends to fox the ship AI.

Really can`t tell if they are repairing in battle. I suspect they do, as battles last a bit longer.

So can`t really see ship improvements on defence yet, but still play-testing, so I won`t say much more on that for now; waiting for a major ship battle.

That`s it.

p.s. Just noticed a slight strange thing in diplomacy. Nearly everyone has decided to declare war on me. Obama and another Shogunate Faction have too. Everyone else is Imperial. now what`s interesting is while all the Imperials show they hate me in the Diplomacy screen, Obama and the other Shogunate Clan show that they are `Friendly` with me, even though they are at war with me?

What`s going on there? Perhaps they have been forced to agree to war with me?

[Ildoge]

about sengoku jidai the game now is perfect

Generals are no more suicide, AI plays as a human play, better than a human player

I only hate when AI starts a siege with the same number of units. It's stupid and it ruins the game

In chosokabe campaign legendary AI maintain siege and they defeat me. But in an other campaign, chosokabe hard, they attack me with 1200 vs 1200

CA, fix this this stupid bug and the game will be the best strategy game ever
AI should start a siege only with a real superiority

[IGdood]

One change I suppose I like is that the AI will now starve me out on some occasions even if it has superior numbers. They know that I'll be forced to sally when my siege defences won't be used.....

[cevap]

Just had a siege (S2 campaign) where AI had a full stack among those 2 Katana Cavalry and 2 Generals, so I put 2 yari ashi outside to kill off their cav and general as they would usually just charge head in..well
they didnt they sent 3 of their foot units and when those failed they sent Katana Cav (OK not a total improvement but still) and I was just hoping they send their Generals in for the kill but they rather dismounted them and moved up the wall
in a futile attempt but better then charging a spear wall

I play on Normal so the AI could be better at higher difficulties but someone else should confirm this if true

[Humble Warrior]

I doubt Ai is better on higher levels, but it probably shoves more forces at you since it has a greater financial bonus.

Oh yea, forgot to mention that the flickering dancing soldiers (dead or alive) problem still exists once you have lots and lots of troops fighting (usually in a siege situation).

[Drtad]

I doubt Ai is better on higher levels, but it probably shoves more forces at you since it has a greater financial bonus.

That is indeed the situation. I agree that legendary is a bit much... I know some people can do it no problem with certain factions but it's just impossible for me.

Oh yea, forgot to mention that the flickering dancing soldiers (dead or alive) problem still exists once you have lots and lots of troops fighting (usually in a siege situation).

Hmm... To be honest, I have never seen this problem in any situation. Could be an issue with certain graphics cards, but I'm certainly no graphics card expert.

[Humble Warrior]

That is indeed the situation. I agree that legendary is a bit much... I know some people can do it no problem with certain factions but it's just impossible for me.

If you play legendary, you really have to have your best fighting hat on and sustain it too. The AI is like the Terminater. You defend and defeat dozens of its armies by the skin of your teeth, you get as diplomatic as you can, you try to prevent rebellion on your part and put him in trouble and just when you think you`ve beaten off the last huge Faction army... TWO more huge stacks show up! The amount of times I`ve found myself saying `WTF! where did that lot come from?`

That said I did find myself actually getting somewhere, so maybe I`m learning. I will beat Legenadry eventually, oh yes, I will.

Kudos to CA - talk about learning from Empire. I hope they have a Legendary difficulty like this in Rome 2.

Hmm... To be honest, I have never seen this problem in any situation. Could be an issue with certain graphics cards, but I'm certainly no graphics card expert.

I suspect it`s a graphics card problem as well. It has also been pretty hot lately with the weather which I wouldn`t be surprised contributed to it.

[rasassfrass]

yeah i know from personally experience s2 has problems with AMD cards i got one and s2 was just.....broken replace it with Nvidia card and it works perfect i dont have any flickering bodies thing. Humble what band of graphics card do you use?

[Humble Warrior]

It`s a GTX 260, yea I know it`s pretty old, but graphic cards cost a bit these days don`t ya know, and it runs STW2 pretty well on most settings except Dx11.

Guess CA didn`t realise some of us have these `old` cards still.

[InferiorBeing]

A bug? Or was that simulating `uncertainty` on the AI`s part? I hope so. Many times in real warfare, a commander has frozen when it comes to leadership and simply fail to order his men to do anything until too late. It would be nice if a bit of programmed`uncertainty` could mean that the army leadership might freeze, especially if there`s no General commanding them.

Dumbest thing I've read, today.

...Seriously.

[Humble Warrior]

Dumbest thing I've read, today.

...Seriously.

I`m sorry your IQ does not comprehend my words

[Pesticide]

the whole siege system is broken, generals always fight to the death, even if their whole army is routet they drive to my wall , dismount and commit suicide climbing on the wall themselves.
...

And i can win any siege battle im outnumbered 2 to one. Why because the ai splits it troops in 3-5 stacks ... that i then rush out to and outnumber 3 to one with my defenders , mopping them up one stack at a time .. the siege map needs to be bigger, alot bigger, like three times the size and its a ridiculous game mechanic to split up the troops like that to alleviate stupid AI not being able to siege properly

ever since rome siege battles have been going downhill and i never play them again, which unfortunately is 80% of this game, as its all about getting the cities ...

[shinphish]

Hard Domination Battle Realism Campaigns only (I don't feel increase in Koku cost to me, and the increase to the AI equate to higher difficulty in a fair sense for Very Hard and Legendary). I do not own FotS, nor will I. No interest in *almost* modern warfare.

I have seen a vast improvement in troop movement. A recent Takeda campaign had the Ikko and Urakami dominating everything left of Kyoto and fighting one another. Thanks to trade route visibility I could see the Ikko moving 5 stacks of troops in close formations, starting a siege and pulling up its supporting troops before actually fighting. Too often they spread out leaving those individual stacks vulnerable( out of reinforcement range ) making short work of thousands of troops when by all rights I should have been crushed.

The BattleAI is also a good deal more defensive when it should be, to the point of holing up in a corner on a land map and drastically reducing its open flanks using the red line borders of the map.

Even 1220 vs 1220 troop battle and I spent awhile taking a slow bleed of my (Takeda) missile troop v (Mogami) missile troops, where in the past loosing arrows into the AI formation in-general triggered a melee rush and a full army v army engagement.

AI goes out of its way to try and flank, which I had not seen enough of before the most recent update, and it keeps its General moving to avoid focus fire volley's from behind the skirmish line.

Sieges have also improved, but they AI still doesn't understand 'bait' cavalry when I am defending. Even if the AI has superior troop numbers and superior unit types, they spend too much time attempting to chase down light cav with far too many troops. Shield your advancing troops from the charge that may never come, don't chase my cav to the edge of the map with 6 Yari Sams that would have made the difference in taking the castle. Those troops are now at full exhaustion when approaching the walls, and easy kills even for Ashigaru.

Boy did those AI clans take a shining to those new heroes! I see them in the mix way more often than the previous set of heroes, even in games that go right up to 1600 when there is plenty of tech development time for everyone. I generally clam provinces to the point of just before realm divide, turtle and tech up until I have the choke points into my domain loaded with max castles, and 2 stack minimum at those points (usually south Shinano, Owari, and Echizen areas) to push through for the win.

[Humble Warrior]

I don`t have a problem with Hard, it`s Legendary that seems to have the expansive Koku increase. But I guess that`s why it`s Legendary, although Legendary in my view should be smarter AI or more realistic AI like MTW2 had it (fatigue and moral, etc were much more stringent to reality for both sides). Good to hear about the defences improvements.

Sieges work as intended. I was careful with my wording. I don`t actually like the sieges very much for reasons I explained in the past. I think the whole climbing the walls every single siege battle in thousands just silly. It beggars belief that this is all they have and I know there were alternatives. what happened to simply busting down the gates with cannons or fire? It`s climb the walls every time and it looks even sillier now in the FOTS period when it`s obvious that if this practise was used even remotely, they`d stopped by this time.

Sallying out and beating each separate attacker didn`t actually occur to me, but I do tend to put my artillery (covered by soldiers on top) outside the walls and just kill all his Generals. I`m not sure sallying out to beat each section one at a time would work on Hard or higher, but it would help kill off the Generals. I`ll try it.

thanks for your input, Gentlemen. More on this patch is always welcome.

[grouchy13]

With only four factions with which to complete the main game (Mori, Chokosabe, Ikko Ikki and Hattori) I've been attempting Hattori VH for some time. I have recently been working away and left my previous campaign at turn 16 since returning I saw the release of the new units DLC with the addition of the Hattori hero units coupled with the afore mentioned patch. I decided to restart to ensure I could recruit the new Hanzo's shadows units, The biggest point for me post patch is what has happened to Ashigaru morale?

In my previous campaigns including a succesful Date Legendary Campaign and through the 400+ hours of play I've always found the Ashigaru a reliable unit, now their morale is highly brittle unless stiffened with the presence of a nearby commander. I'm not talking about fighting superior units like Katana or Yari Samurai but against other Ashigaru something especially crucial in the intial stages of the Hattori Campaign. Am I alone in seing a reduction in the Ashigaru units capability?

[Humble Warrior]

I think I`ve finally figured out how ship defence has been changed:

The defending ship now ALWAYS faces its broadsides to me. If I go really wide and come in, it`s broadsides are still facing me. Before, they weren`t and they`d have to turn to face me, giving me an advantage.

It looks weird because the ship silhouette never changes and I don`t know how its doing this without powering up. But still testing before I fully confirm.

[Lokgar]

I play on Hard / VH and I've had multiple times where an ally has saved me from destruction. They also move forward to support me when I'm sieging, which is pretty damn nice.

[Stellarnight]

Was playing a Hard Campaign using Sekigahara Mod but since i heard the AI behavior cannot be modded, i assume this little incident i am about to describe can be replicated in Vanilla:

I took a superior force to assault a castle which was man by 4 units of YA + 1Yumi Ash and 1x Retainer.

I had 3 Yumi Ash and 2 Teppo Ash and Lots of Naginata Ash.

I was expecting the AI to just sit tight in the castle and just stand there dying to my Arrow Volleys which happens every single time for the past 268 hours of Shogun 2 so i split my force into two to crush them via hammer and anvil.

While i was marching up Archers and Teppos, something unexpected happened. The AI sallied out with all his forces and make a beeline towards my archers and teppos. I had to quickly switch on Fire By Rank and rush my Naginatas to the defence. Got away relatively unscathed but i could have gotten into some trouble if it was mass quality troops.

Have anyone experienced such behavior before?

[Humble Warrior]

While i was marching up Archers and Teppos, something unexpected happened. The AI sallied out with all his forces and make a beeline towards my archers and teppos. I had to quickly switch on Fire By Rank and rush my Naginatas to the defence. Got away relatively unscathed but i could have gotten into some trouble if it was mass quality troops.

Have anyone experienced such behavior before?

He actually sallied out? One of my bug bears with sieges was that you could bring just a bunch of artillery and just bomb him to death without him ever sallying. If he did sally he would`ve eaten the arty for breakfast. If it now knows to sally out then that will be a great improvement. I will watch out for it in my siege attacks. Cheers for the heads up.

[♔The Black Knight♔]

Was playing a Hard Campaign using Sekigahara Mod but since i heard the AI behavior cannot be modded, i assume this little incident i am about to describe can be replicated in Vanilla:

I took a superior force to assault a castle which was man by 4 units of YA + 1Yumi Ash and 1x Retainer.

I had 3 Yumi Ash and 2 Teppo Ash and Lots of Naginata Ash.

I was expecting the AI to just sit tight in the castle and just stand there dying to my Arrow Volleys which happens every single time for the past 268 hours of Shogun 2 so i split my force into two to crush them via hammer and anvil.

While i was marching up Archers and Teppos, something unexpected happened. The AI sallied out with all his forces and make a beeline towards my archers and teppos. I had to quickly switch on Fire By Rank and rush my Naginatas to the defence. Got away relatively unscathed but i could have gotten into some trouble if it was mass quality troops.

Have anyone experienced such behavior before?

Yea, just recently, I was just bombing the enemy castle with arrows and projectiles. They took a little damage, but they sent some yari samurai out,(not all their troops) and killed lots of my bows before I sent support. I was surprised by this, so now I keep melee unit near by to keep them safe.