Europe, one country? Was it possible?

[Silver Guard]

The Romans, the huns, the mongols, the holy Roman Empire, the normans, the Muslims, Napoleon, The British, the Germans, the EU

All these had their chance and lost it, battered down by internal conflict or pressure from numerous jealous neighbours. But was it possible? Couldd any one of these have conquered Europe and made it one country? Can the EU still do so? What difference would it have made? How long would it have lasted? What do you think?

[Super_TW]

Not possible, langages, cultures etc........

[Julius Isidrus]

Are you american?

[Silver Guard]

No I'm not American! Why on Earth did you say that? The Romans spread latin to almost the entire of Europe, the religion oif Jupiter and Mars ect. spread with them, folowed by Christianity. The barbarian world becam Roman through and through, what was there in terms of culture to stop them?

[I Have a Clever Name]

Can the EU still do so?

No, mainly because of intense national pride and chauvinism. Maybe if the EU constitution hadn't crashed and burned, but now? Highly doubtful. You have to remember that one of the EU's functions for many decades was a power bloc against the Soviet behemoth. Now it has no ominous external foe to speak of, but if one were to materialize, I'm sure unification or at least a much more tightly-knit union would be probable.

At the moment, the EU's usefulness itself is being questioned by many.

[Ahiga]

I wouldn't think so. Europe's had at least a thousand years to develop distinct and divided national hertiages and cultures, contrary to America (And just having the slight division of north and south in terms of politics and culture led us to a civil war within less than 100 years of existence).

A union like it is now is the most likely course. I can't see a European Country, as I cannot see an Asian country or African or south American.

[Julius Isidrus]

No I'm not American! Why on Earth did you say that? The Romans spread latin to almost the entire of Europe, the religion oif Jupiter and Mars ect. spread with them, folowed by Christianity. The barbarian world becam Roman through and through, what was there in terms of culture to stop them?

I dont think im getting your idea... in those times there wasnt an Europe, there was a war machine called Rome and non-civilazed cultures, how can you compare them with today?
How are countries with centuries of History, independence won with blood of thousands and thousands, just become one? It's just not possibly, patriotism wouldnt allow it.

[Silver Guard]

No, I'm pretty sure that was NATO, the EU was primarily for economic functions until recently, though I am no expert on the matter. National pride dosn't stand in the way of France, a very proud country, who despite that are perhaps the most feverant supporters of the far more united EU. But again, what of say the Musims, if the moors were not defeated by the franks, or the Ottomans captured Viena?

Euope is a continent, part of the Euasian tectonic plate, of course there was a Europe. And I'm not comparing, I'm saying whether it was possible to unite Euope

[Julius Isidrus]

No, I'm pretty sure that was NATO, the EU was primarily for economic functions until recently, though I am no expert on the matter. National pride dosn't stand in the way of France, a very proud country, who despite that are perhaps the most feverant supporters of the far more united EU. But again, what of say the Musims, if the moors were not defeated by the franks, or the Ottomans captured Viena?

Euope is a continent, part of the Euasian tectonic plate, of course there was a Europe. And I'm not comparing, I'm saying whether it was possible to unite Euope

Well... try saying something bad about Europe (here in the forums) and see what happens.

[Konig]

it was france that first crashed and burned the constitution... in that respect, the french people and the French government are not the same. whle the government wants closer ties with the EU, the people feel threatened (about losing their jobs to eastern european immigrants and the such).

the EU has the potential to unite europe but not in the near future, im talking decades people, maybe a century or two. Maybe then, when social barriers are overcome, will there be a USE.

lol, thats a terrible name!

IMO culture doesnt really make a difference now. a century ago maybe, when nationalism was a lot huger. but now maybe only the Brits would oppose to join solely because of Culture.

[Julius Isidrus]

But how would Europe be governed? Something like the EUA (which is impossible)?
lol i can't imagine seeing England together with France and Spain with Portugal... or Germany and Poland... or... lol... maybe in 3006. (if we dont kill ourselves until then)

[the Eternal Cocoon]

The Romans, the huns, the mongols, the holy Roman Empire, the normans, the Muslims, Napoleon, The British, the Germans, the EU

All these had their chance and lost it, battered down by internal conflict or pressure from numerous jealous neighbours.

europe still has a damn good chance of uniting. the veto of the constitution was the first major bump for a long time on the long road to unification and simply cant be seen as the end of the process. Especially so when you consider that europe has had sliding GDP for the past couple of years and western europe is having a crisis of thier own with arabs. they have common problems at a time when none of them can handle it alone. They have few choices other than banding together to economicly compete with China and America and have the force, legitimacy, and support to deal with thier racial/idealistic problems with the arabs.


how would it work?
I think they would go with americas example. they would create a three branch system. Their congress would be split up into two houses, one with two representitives from every former european country ( now states) and the other house with population based representation. Thier executive branch would have the same responsabilities as the president here, but he would have more power, like the power to propose legislation to the congress ( the american president has to propose the legislation to a congressman and the congressman can propose it to the congress). the purpose of the congress will also be somewhat britianized in that part of its purpose would be to critique the president ( or prime minister, whatever those euros want to call him). Ide also imagine they'd pick a natinoal language that would probobly be english( in part becuae its the most commonly spoken language in europe, and also in part to try and keep some relations with america). The first thing the government would try to do is create a new "european" identity through a use of propoganda and they would probobly try to curculate soldiers around the new country ( to have german soldiers spend time in poland, polish soldiers in russia, etc). Each country would keep thier active governments as state governments, for example England will keep its current system, but its powers will be restricted to domestic policy (within biritan) and the united european government would have superiority over it. that would allow european states to keep thier systems or royalties that they are proud of, or vote to make a new one if they dont like thier current one.

I dont know how europe wil govern itself, but I am completly sure that it is the road europeans are walking down. It wont take centuries eaither. Decades at most. Im convinced that europe will have a constitution before 2028 ( 20 years from now) and a european government would naturally follow the constituion within a decade. I dont think it would start out strong ( perhaps it will even be a confederatoin), but it will exist.

[John Wayne]

The Romans, the huns, the mongols, the holy Roman Empire, the normans, the Muslims, Napoleon, The British, the Germans, the EU

The Romans could not because they refused to learn new ways of fighting in order to deal with the German tribes.

The Huns got nailed due to Internal Conflict and poor leadershp post Atila.

The Mongols could not because they operated in wide open spces, which central Europe is notcably apcent of.

The HRE did not have any centralizing power, thus was similar to the Huns. A few good leaders, but to many inner rivalries to do anything.

The normans...you mean the vikings? Cause the normans did didly squat after taking over England.

The Mulims were unlucky and got nailed by Charles the Great and at Vienna a few centuries latter (I think). It was just bad luck for them, otherwise they COULD have taken over all of Europe.

Napoleon was a fool in continental-wide takovers. He caused all the problems in Spain, who used to be his ally I might add, by forcefully putting his brother on the Spainish throne and taking over many Spainish cities.

England did not, and would never get, an army large enough to take over the Continent.

The Germans came close in WW2, but Hitler put the nix on that one by being an egotistical fool. He was a damn good politician, but a really bad general.

The EU could bring Europe into a single state, but it will be difficult. Remember, the EU was originaly founded in order to bring about Economical Unity. Not a political one.

[Sammur-amat]

what unification?
as long sum parties included dont resolve issues they got within their minds (brits/pounds, french/arabs, germans/turks, greece-turkey/cyprus ...etc), also when they become able to resolve atleast one issue together on one summit..and offcourse balance western-eastern members
-west to stop acting like east is sum forgotten third world country, because they are now one (dont they?)
-east to stop overloading west looking for salvation from powerty ,usually throwned in by the same contries they run into for better life (hunger really have the shortest memory isn't it?)

[Konig]

Remember, the EU was originaly founded in order to bring about Economical Unity. Not a political one.

the zollverein also started as a free market organization, which later evolved into a united Germany. one thing leads to another. this is why the whole European constitution was developed (not that it succeded)

[John I Tzimisces]

The Romans could not because they refused to learn new ways of fighting in order to deal with the German tribes.

Its more that the Roman army BECAME the germans, and internal conflict stemming ultimately from the war between marius and sulla (generals supplying their own soldiers, soldiers being loyal to the general not the state), and they ran out of money. The romans very consistant beat the germans, and most of germany was frozen wasteland anyhow (compared to the rest of the empire, certainly)

I'd imagine the Turks had a better chance of conquering Europe than the Arabs. I mean, the Arabs took Iberia, and moved into francem and lost, but on the other side of the continent, the Byzantine empire was still strong, despite the loss of the levant.

[Konig]

the byzantine empire were not turkish... the Turkish took over the byzantine empire, when they took their capital Constantinople and renamed it Istambul. they became the Ottoman empire, and while in their early days powerful, later they became weak due to corruption and bad leadership and survived only because the other European powers allowed them to. they werent called "the sick man of Europe" for nothing.

[John I Tzimisces]

the byzantine empire were not turkish... the Turkish took over the byzantine empire, when they took their capital Constantinople and renamed it Istambul. they became the Ottoman empire, and while in their early days powerful, later they became weak due to corruption and bad leadership and survived only because the other European powers allowed them to. they werent called "the sick man of Europe" for nothing.

I didn't say they were Turkish.

[John Wayne]

the zollverein also started as a free market organization, which later evolved into a united Germany. one thing leads to another. this is why the whole European constitution was developed (not that it succeded)

Actualy it was because the Hohenzollerns gained control of some very important terretory in the century or two after the Thirty Years War. It was with this empowered Prussia that Otto von Bismarck turned into a unified Germany for the firswt time in...well forever.

[Konig]

I didn't say they were Turkish.

lol my bad then :original:

did u mean the byzantine empire taking over Europe then?