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Thread: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

  1. #41

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    This is really amazing and we are all grateful for what you've shown us Landil. Looking forward to more
    Looking forward to Dominion of the Sword
    PSN ID: mynameisowen; add me if you play GT5 or Battlefield.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Thanks so muc for the preview, the map looks beautiful and the gameplay looks like it ought to be engrossing. Also the background historical information about the region was really interesting. Well done !

  3. #43

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    No words can describe the true beauty of this map, but i will try anyway . It's like you designed a miniversion of our world!
    One of the three, a name split in two, one part is not here, the other is my account name.
    I am the beginning and end of all beings, of all life
    My breath is pure and live giving, Yin and yang were mine.
    The jade emperor was my apprentice, Now i am retired, leaving the rule of the world in his hands.

    Who am i?

    -Tianzong-

  4. #44

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Really, really fantastic preview! great work.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    I really like the map landscape. Great work on that. And especially the map textures - they have very tasteful palette of colours. I hope that some day you will share those textures with the modding community and other mappers would be able to try them with their own maps


  6. #46
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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Quote Originally Posted by Resurrection View Post

    Add to that the fact that settlements will be unruly for conquerors and often financial burden initially the conquest of any region itself will be very hard. If for example you rush the capital but leave the PSFs in enemy hands you will find it drains your treasury pretty quickly not to mention fragile supply lines.
    So you rush and sack (exterminate population & destroy every building for cash), then sell the settlement to another faction and leave.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    I wonder how much will be possible to rush through all these PSF's. And from where do you know buildings are the same as in vanilla, that you're able to destroy them immediately? Maybe not so much buildings can be destroyed anymore or not give money anymore.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Quote Originally Posted by ján0šík View Post
    So you rush and sack (exterminate population & destroy every building for cash), then sell the settlement to another faction and leave.
    If you're consciously looking for exploits then you're going to find them. I tend to think playing a Total War game has to have a level of willing role playing for best effect. So that excludes doing stuff like blitzkrieging.

    What's important for future Total War games is to emphasize the non-martial aspects of state management that wouldn't make it a bore trying to avoid constant blitzkrieg and constant engagement.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. CHESTERTON

  9. #49

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Quote Originally Posted by ján0šík View Post
    So you rush and sack (exterminate population & destroy every building for cash), then sell the settlement to another faction and leave.
    Yeah, if you rush through about 4 PSFs, one of them a Fortress that would take heavy ordinance to take, then besiege and take the settlement, another siege battle which according to the modders will be an absolute pain in the butt, all in one go - then I would say you have earned your spoils.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Looks awesome great work.
    The game.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabenrecht View Post
    Yeah, if you rush through about 4 PSFs, one of them a Fortress that would take heavy ordinance to take, then besiege and take the settlement, another siege battle which according to the modders will be an absolute pain in the butt, all in one go - then I would say you have earned your spoils.
    And what if there's a way around them?

    I'm sure DotS will be magical, but no sorcery can change the fatal flaw of Total War's campaign design: that is to be a game solely about conquest (fighting is secondary to territorial expansion).

    Unless the arch mages can conjur a spell to break hardcoded limits, and with that the very absolute laws that govern the gam.. err universe.
    Last edited by atheniandp; August 20, 2012 at 06:48 AM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. CHESTERTON

  12. #52

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Quote Originally Posted by atheniandp View Post
    And what if there's a way around them?
    In vast majority of cases there isn't. Sometimes you can go around throuh ZOR which takes exactly the same time as besiging and waiting the place out (=3 turns). Only when you do NOT take the PSFs they will remain behind you blocking your supply lines and giving enemy more places to ambush you from and more money and control.

    Mod Leader, Mapper & Bohemian Researcher

  13. #53

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    I was foolish to doubt the majesty of this mod. Seems like you guys have planned this out long ago. Mere villeins and serfs like us cannot begin to comprehend the intricacy of this beast.

    EDIT: But really, that sounds really, really good.
    Last edited by atheniandp; August 20, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. CHESTERTON

  14. #54
    Landil's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    The land between rivers, part 2

    الجزيرة (al-Jazīra):

    The Ancient Greeks called it Mesopotamia, the Arabs call it Bilad al-Rafidayn, for both the land between rivers was a land of great age, wealth, and splendour. In the wetlands along the banks of the Euphrates and the Tigris human civilisation was 'born', it was here that many of the world's first farmers worked their land, and their descendants continued to do so until this very day. In 1080 AD, Mesopotamia was a land of ancient traditions under a new order, and this preview will show you its northern half, the region that was and is generally known as al-Jazīra: the Island. The region is named such because it's almost completely surrounded by the Euphrates and Tigris rivers, which have always formed the source of sustenance for the people that lived here. Though the region has always had a bond with its southern neighbour, Arabian Iraq, it has also held on to its own, distinct culture to this day.

    Before we go into further detail about this province, here is an overhead view of the region with full visibility of all its geographical features:

    Spoiler for al-Jazīra map

    Geography and agriculture:

    Geographically, al-Jazīra is much different from its southern neighbour. Much of the region is arid, especially the great swathe of land between the two rivers. Around the northern and eastern edges of the region, mountains are the defining feature, while the southern and western borders are formed more or less by the Euphrates. Especially around the Tigris though, the land is fertile, noticeably where the Greater- and Lesser Zab tributaries join the great river. In the mountainous north of the region, the Euphrates and Tigris are formed by a multitude of streams, and provide a great surplus of water for the people that live there. As the Euphrates flows down from this region, it floods its water across a large plain where many a city prospers from the fertility it provides. All in all, the region is one of great contrast between the great fertility that the rivers provide and the great aridity of the parts that the waters do not reach.

    As with Arabian Iraq, the region of al-Jazīra has been given a great deal of attention to provide it with an authentic medieval look. Rivers that have now run dry are still present here, and the lands that are now arid due to the construction of great dams in the early 20th century are shown as fertile in the game.

    Here follows a screenshot that show all the settlements of the region in more detail:

    Spoiler for al-Jazīra detail

    Demography and politics:

    al-Mawṣil, or Mosul as it is also known as, located in the eastern part of the region, has long been the largest and most important city of the region. Across the river from the city lay and still lie the massive ruins of the ancient capital of Assyria, Nineveh. After Nineveh was sacked by the Babylonians and the Medes in the 7th century BC, the city of Mosul, located slightly north of the abandoned metropolis*, became the new centre of the region. By the start of the Middle Ages, the city had moved back south to the bank opposite Nineveh, and it became one of the most affluent cities of the Islamic world, rivalled only by Basra as the second largest city of Mesopotamia.

    Though, due to its aridity, al-Jazīra was not as populous as its southern neighbour, it was certainly as densely and in places even more densely populated. It certainly did not lack cities, especially around the rivers. Important cities included Amid, Arbil, Arzan, Edessa, Harran, Nasibin and Raqqah, but none of these was more than half the size of Mosul.

    Politically, the region is divided into two parts. Most of al-Jazīra starts out in the hands of Sham (Syria), a Shi'ite Muslim faction that starts out at odds with the faction controlling the other part, Hayer (Armenia). This last is an Orthodox Christian faction that was a de jure vassal of Rhomania (The Roman Empire), but in truth formed the last Christian line of defence in this part of the Middle East, cut off almost completely from its former master.

    This political struggle between Orthodox Christians and the Muslims is also presented in the culture of the region. A large part of the population, both in the Christian and the Muslim controlled parts, was still Christian in faith. The Islam was only slowly penetrating this region, the Shi'ite tradition being more prevalent than the Sunni. The Shi'ites mostly concentrated in the more urbanised regions, like in and around Mosul, while the rural regions remained predominantly Christian. Even the Christians however were divided, with Orthodox Christianity prevailing in the once Roman parts of the region, while the more traditionalist Assyrian Church, a church that had existed in the region since the 1st century AD, being dominant in the eastern part of the region. Also worth mentioning is the great amount of different ethnical groups that lived in the area: Assyrians, Arabs, Armenians, Jews, Kurds and Persians being the major ones. Especially the Assyrians in the southern half and the Armenians in the northern half. It is this situation of great differences between the various cultural groups that will form a problem for the Syrian ruler in 1080, one that must be dealt with swiftly and decisively if order is to be retained...

    * The little known ruins of the ancient city of Mosul are, for those who are interested, located at roughly 36°30'40.31"N, 42°44'12.13"E. In medieval times this place was still inhabited and was called Balad, which is what it is presented as in DotS.

    Here ends this preview, I hope you have enjoyed it!

    The next preview will be about a land of great tradition and wealth, but also of troubling differences. To compensate for the long wait you have had to endure between this and the previous preview, the next two previews will be posted on the 2nd and the 9th of September respectively. After that, I will continue with a preview every two weeks, and I will try to always have it posted on a Sunday. I will however still take into account contributions made to the mod on the Historical Settlements Project subforum. From now on I will do an extra preview for every seven contributions I receive, after which the count will be reset to zero. This extra preview will always be posted on a Sunday if possible, to keep everything as organized as possible.

    If there are any questions about this or the previous preview, or about anything else related to this project, please feel free to ask them and I will do my best to answer.

    Cheers,

    Landil
    Last edited by Landil; September 19, 2012 at 04:25 AM.
    Mod Leader, Head of Research & Middle East Specialist

  15. #55

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Magnificent! Thank you so much for this preview. Your work is unparalleled. Just looking at the map is a history lesson for me; as an Arabic speaking person, I knew of most of these places from reading history, but I never saw them so clearly represented. Language-wise the naming is precisely accurate for the PSFs in both parts of the preview, at least the ones with an Arabic name - some had actually retained their Persian names, or even acquired Turkic names, which I cannot judge

    (however, for the first preview, the title should be changed to "Erāq al-'Arab" or "Al-Erāq Al-'Arabi" as the current naming is grammatically incorrect)

    Tremendous job. I will be having a very difficult time waiting for the release - but please, never mind me, take your time

  16. #56
    Landil's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Thanks for the compliments mate, I've tried to make the Middle East as authentic looking as possible and an important part of that is the linguistics. For Mesopotamia in particular it is very difficult to say where Arabian began and Persian ended, as Persian was only slowly being replaced as the dominant language by Arabian, but I've tried my best to represent this.

    Also thanks for pointing that one mistake out, and please feel free to point out any mistakes you might notice in the future by either posting about it here or PM'ing me
    Mod Leader, Head of Research & Middle East Specialist

  17. #57

    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Breathtaking. Fantastic. I only wish I knew more about Medieval Mesopotamia to compliment this great preview from the get-go. Looks like I will be learning a lot of history from this mod.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. CHESTERTON

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Fantastic work. Can't wait to get the chance to fight over and conquer those lands and settlements.

    By the way, which faction owns the two PSFs in the upper-left corner of the image, which have red flags?(Khartabirt and Arsamosata) Are those Eastern Roman, Seljuk Roman or Georgian PSFs?

  19. #59
    Landil's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Those belong to the Eastern Roman Empire. The two formed a small exclave that held out for quite some time after 1080 against the invading Turkmen. You'll hear more about the situation in that region in a future preview
    Mod Leader, Head of Research & Middle East Specialist

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    Default Re: Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

    Great. How about the Choma fort? Is it in the game too?
    Last edited by The Kybrothilian; August 27, 2012 at 07:31 AM.

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