Tsardoms Total War - FACTION PREVIEW: Banate of Bosnia

[Hrobatos]

all units are called "Bosnian" which means exactly that, will you translate that with Bošnjak, Bošnjanin, Bosanac or Bosandžeros doesnt concerns us.

[phoenix[illusion]]

it's just a regional name, nothing more
nationality as we know today does not exist in that time. so bosnian unit means they are originally from region of bosnia
as for croatian and serbian mercs, we know about famous hrvatinic family, and spread of bosnia over serbian regions

[Ban]

I'm from Bosnia and I'm fapping since I saw this

[DobroVece]

Really? Cause I'm fapping since I was about 10-11.
Kidding ofc, thanks for your support.

[Bosnian_King]

Bosnjanin certainly was not a teritorijal name but an ethnic/ political name if you ask me. Because belonging to a nation/people/ ethnicity in the late middle ages was nothing more than belonging to a certain political framework= state, kingdom etc.

I think that the text is quite good. Only I would approach the Bosnian church more from a political point of view rather than talking about Bogomils but OK. The maker of the text choose to take the more classical approach which is ok.

It would be better if also the "horion bosona" (land of Bosnia) from 950. was also short mentioned as the first mention of Bosnia. Because the banate of Bosnia did not fall from the heaven in the 12. century when the hungarians decided to do so; it was mentioned that a Bosnian principality (knezevina) existed in 950.

[phoenix[illusion]]

Bosnjanin certainly was not a teritorijal name but an ethnic/ political name if you ask me. Because belonging to a nation/people/ ethnicity in the late middle ages was nothing more than belonging to a certain political framework= state, kingdom etc.

i was thinking about that, more like name of kingdom those people live in, but you call that political name. like f.e. aragon soldiers will be called aragonese spearmen, since they served the king of aragon etc. other naming would just make more nowadays problems

[Bosnian_King]

i was thinking about that, more like name of kingdom those people live in, but you call that political name. like f.e. aragon soldiers will be called aragonese spearmen, since they served the king of aragon etc. other naming would just make more nowadays problems

I think it is more complicated. When the kindom of Bosnia conquered parts of Croatia and parts of Serbia the documents mention those people still as Serbs and Croats. Very clear does king Tvrtko call the people of Hlivno and Kljuc as Croats never as Bosnjani (Bosnians)

What is more important the documents make a distinction between the Bosnians (Bosnjani and Croats) for instance in the document about the Visocki stanak. Why this distinction when they all lived in the bosnian kingdom? The Croats which were mentioned there live for about 100 years in Bosnia but Tvrtko calls them Croats and says that Bosnians and those Croats were present (the Croats of Hrvoje.) Tvrtko even calls Hrvoje himself indirect as a Croat and says that the Bosnians welcomed him. Why? Hrvoje was a Bosnian magnate but Tvrtko calls him a Croat...

Also the Serbs and Bosnians are distinctioned in a lot of documents which were written in the time of the Bosnian invasion in Raska. And king Tvrtko I himself makes a distinction when he explaines his right on both the bosnian and serbian crown with the words:

"On the Serbian crown I have the right because my granfathers the Serbs (His grandmother was serbian from the Nemanjic dinasty we know)"

And then he in the same document says about his right on the bosnian crown:

"On the Bosnian crown I have the right because of the grandfathers of the kingdom: my Bosnian forefathers."

Further sources mention the

"Bosnians of Tvrtko and Croats of Palizna"

which were sieging Vrana in the time of Tvrtko I. I can continue till tomorrow but I think that it is clear that it is a complex matery. Not all the Croats and Serbs which lived in Bosnia became automathically "Bosnjani" there is no doubt about that.

[phoenix[illusion]]

it's all matters of perspective of those documents and all others
serbs, croats and bosniaks have other perspective, and i can read them all, and they all seem logical, so no point of discussion...

f.e. i can view this sentence as other as you did:
"On the Serbian crown I have the right because my granfathers the Serbs"

i can see it as he does not talk about his grandmother, but as his ancestors, many times called as "grandfathers" in plural
so it goes on

same as ninoslav documents where you say he does not talk about himself as serb, but others etc.

[JankoMega]

Nice job.

[Bosnian]

How do I donwload this ?

[Son of Serbia]

You know how they say "if you wish for something strong enough, it will come true"?

You go to www.google.com, type "I really want to download Tsardoms badly" into the search bar, then you close your eyes and you start wishing for it intensely, with all your heart, body and soul. When you feel you have been wishing for it long and strong enough, you open your eyes, press enter, and download "this". Maybe... Or maybe you could wait for it to get finished and released first.



Welcome to the world of TWC, by the way. Usually, people politely introduce themselves in their first post and... Well, who am I kidding - most of the first posts are "how do I download this", "when is this going to be released", "why is there no this faction in this mod" etc...

Cheers.

[Bosnian]

You know how they say "if you wish for something strong enough, it will come true"?

You go to www.google.com, type "I really want to download Tsardoms badly" into the search bar, then you close your eyes and you start wishing for it intensely, with all your heart, body and soul. When you feel you have been wishing for it long and strong enough, you open your eyes, press enter, and download "this". Maybe... Or maybe you could wait for it to get finished and released first.



Welcome to the world of TWC, by the way. Usually, people politely introduce themselves in their first post and... Well, who am I kidding - most of the first posts are "how do I download this", "when is this going to be released", "why is there no this faction in this mod" etc...

Cheers.

LOL,
I am sorry I am new to this foum so please forgive me .
So Hello,
I started playing Total War 1 year ago,
I never used any mod
I live in Bosnia ...
Cheers

[Son of Serbia]

LOL,
I am sorry I am new to this foum so please forgive me .
So Hello,
I started playing Total War 1 year ago,
I never used any mod
I live in Bosnia ...
Cheers

Hehe, I was just joking, no big deal there. If you sniff around the Tsardoms forum a bit, you'll see it's not yet finished. Current estimated release date is supposed to be roughly the beginning of the 2013 (that's the latest news we have heard from the developers of the mod). I guess you'll be playing the Banate of Bosnia (and later Kingdom of Bosnia, if you manage to transform the Banate to it - which I'm sure you will ) in about half a year unless something that would slow down the development team emerges.

[Gorčin]

Mate you are totally wrong. The whole team is completely apolitical and has no interest in any type of discrimination or anything like that. This mod is all about portraying history as accurately as humanly possible. The serbian and croatian units exist purely to represent the populations from the newly conquered territories. Every faction has units from other backgrounds if you bothered to check the other previews. Wallachia and Bulgaria have Tatar units, Serbia has Ragusan units, the Ottomans and Ragusans have Vlach units. If you think this is bad wait till you see factions like the Roman Empire will have a plethora of ethnic units from Albanians to Vlachs and from Western units (Italians, Germans etc) to Turkomans. I don't see where the issue is. The rosters include mercenary units as well, they are not separate. Also, what are you talking about ethnic term? All the units are called Bosnian (Bosnian Speramen, Bosnian Axemen, Bosnian Archers etc). The only units that don't have the Bosnian denomination are the two you mentioned.

Greetings Wallachian.I didnt meant to disrespect your work.I know that you all worked hard to get this mode finished but I really get touchy when i see something unjust and unapropriated you see if you try to represent medieaval bosnia without even mentioning the term bosnjani/bosniak its like making a documentary for great britain in wich you are mentioning scots,irishmen ,men from wales but drop the english.All of thesse croat man at arms or what so ever and serb raiders if (I recall correct)maybe served the bosnian army but certnaly not in such numbers to be atributed in the militay rooster.As far as I know the only mentionig of croats in Bosnia is when the King Tvrtko I called for the bosnian knight Hrvoje Hrvatinić and ackonwlegded his escort to be croats.If someone can enlgihten me and bring up these vast croatian and serbian elements in the bosnian army i would be satisfyed and grateful because you guys certanly know a little bit more of medieval balkan history then I.

[Gorčin]

He would have them named Bošnjaci or Bošnjani. Go figure.

Yes they called themself bosnjani i dont see were is the glitch.

all units are called "Bosnian" which means exactly that, will you translate that with Bošnjak, Bošnjanin, Bosanac or Bosandžeros doesnt concerns us.

You must be the guy who is in charge for bosnian research...

it's just a regional name, nothing more
nationality as we know today does not exist in that time. so bosnian unit means they are originally from region of bosnia
as for croatian and serbian mercs, we know about famous hrvatinic family, and spread of bosnia over serbian regions

Exactly,Phoenix so why are you puting Croatians and Serbs in the bosnian rooster when then there was no nationality then contradictory ha?

[phoenix[illusion]]

they are not in official roster, but more like AoR units...
same will go for other states

[dabela]

amazing

[Basil 11]

Great work. After visiting Bosnia for the first time ever this summer (beautiful country + some of the kindest people I have ever met), it is really interesting to see them as a faction in a total war game - thanks for the preview !

[Bosnian_King]

A new statue for the Bosnian king Tvrtko I Kotromanic will be revealed within a vew days. Her you can see this statue. It costed 100.000 Euro's:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[BHCluster]

Without doubt an excellent piece of work and dedication.