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Thread: Champions League 2012/2013

  1. #401
    SonofaBooyah's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    It'd be brilliant if Malaga qualify with Arsenal going out. Imagine what's going through Cazorla and Monreal's heads?

  2. #402
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Well, Porto won, only 1-0 though. Malaga are very strong at home so this tie is still anyone's game. The goal was offside by Moutinho but Porto were definitely the more attacking side in the game so they were good merit for there goal. Should be a decent second leg.

    But enough of that, let's focus on Wenger's humiliation shall we?

  3. #403

    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Well... hadn't Arsenal pretty much given away the first half for free, they could have done something. At least they showed that Bayern are not as unbelievably overpowering as the German table suggests (not bad by any means, don't get me wrong), and certainly not invulnerable, as the single didgit goals conceded suggest.
    They are strong this season, but they also received not much fight from most opponents. Most didn't even bother to fight for midfield and just let Bayern do their thing.
    Neuer recently had some 240 or so minutes without a shot at his goal, which is just sad.

  4. #404
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Wow, and people are actually saying that the Bundesliga is better than the BPL? Yea, sounds like a REALLY competitive league...

  5. #405

    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Appears that many BL-teams struggle for a decent form this season, whith Bayern being the sole exception. Most of the last season decent to good teams had or have trouble. Hannover, Schalke, Gladbach... All a shadows of themselves. Only Leverkusen and Dortmund seem be able to play Bayern on roughly equal terms.

  6. #406

    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Quote Originally Posted by bradavies View Post
    Wow, and people are actually saying that the Bundesliga is better than the BPL? Yea, sounds like a REALLY competitive league...
    Manchester United have pretty much won the BPL, and all of the teams after 1st place in the Bundesliga are much tighter than in the BPL. Bayern just outclassed Arsenal. So what is your point, exactly?


  7. #407
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    My point is that at least teams in the BPL actually challenge us. Teams like Fulham for example, they could of beat us, they gave us a hell of a game. Every team we play at least has a shot at us. Going 240 minutes without a shot conceded to you is down right pathetic. Far, far, far too easy.

  8. #408

    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    To be fair, I think that many teams just got demoralized by the (admittedly) well performed positional play of Bayern too quickly. So the problem is less that they are too bad to score against them, they just didn't bother to try after they had not much success.

  9. #409
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    What causes most grief is Wenger said we are a second half team, we just give teams to much respect in the first half of matches. Tonight was the no different, first goal was a cracker but the second was a poor one, the third was pure comedy. When I looked at the line up I couldn't see a formation of any kind.

    Szczesny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsey, Podolski, Cazorla, Walcott.

    Pod and Walcott playing as wingers so no strikers? Walcott playing up front on his own? Arteta and Ramsey both playing a holding role after Wenger has said he doesn't think the role exists in the current game. Wilshire and Cazorla playing the same role, but without a target man who are they supposed to play forward to? TV5 at left back! we can't play a back three because Pod and Walcott don't track back.. The lads work so hard but the tactics are a mess, or non-existent..

    That said, Bayern didn't impress me as much as the score line or their form suggests. Real, Utd, Barca, Juve, Milan all look stronger.

  10. #410

    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Quote Originally Posted by bradavies View Post
    My point is that at least teams in the BPL actually challenge us. Teams like Fulham for example, they could of beat us, they gave us a hell of a game. Every team we play at least has a shot at us. Going 240 minutes without a shot conceded to you is down right pathetic. Far, far, far too easy.
    What does that have to do with competitiveness? The league, itself, is more competitive than the BPL. Not conceding a shot in under three matches is not that big a deal when you're playing a relatively poor Wolfsburg side and a Schalke side in terrible form.

    Using two and a half matches to say that the league is uncompetitive doesn't make sense, since you're disregarding pretty much the entire season. Bayern have just been that good this season in the Bundesliga, and the Champions League is a different competition that requires different qualities.

    Arsenal actually turned up for this match offensively, because it's a big CL game. They're a great team that has had some bad results and performances, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of having good games.


  11. #411

    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    And agreed, Bayern weren't that good. We were the better team, but we need to step it up when we play Barcelona/Juventus/Dortmund/Real/United. And I'm certain we'll end up getting one of those teams next round.


  12. #412

    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Actually iirc Wolfsburg ended that shot-less period with a direct freekick from Diego. Anyway, I think the BL is, over all, not as strong as last season. Our EL-teams certainly struggle, some have lost key players (Gladbach) and others just are in normal (Hannover, instead of stellar) form or in desastrous form (Schalke, Stuttgart).
    Edit: Speaking of Schalke... Somehow I think they will get eaten alive in Istanbul in that current form of theirs. That is, if playing CL does not suddenly flip a switch and they go from 0 to 100% in an instant.
    Last edited by grinder; February 19, 2013 at 04:12 PM.

  13. #413
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    The CL isn't a particularly good way to judge which league is better, if indeed there is any way to judge. Otherwise how the fudge did Chelski win it last year!

  14. #414
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    That said, Bayern didn't impress me as much as the score line or their form suggests. Real, Utd, Barca, Juve, Milan all look stronger.
    As much as I'd love to agree with you I feel we'd struggle immensely against Bayern. There the exact team I wouldn't want to face, a physically strong and quick side. Strength especially is not our strongest point.

    Quote Originally Posted by grinder View Post
    Actually iirc Wolfsburg ended that shot-less period with a direct freekick from Diego. Anyway, I think the BL is, over all, not as strong as last season. Our EL-teams certainly struggle, some have lost key players (Gladbach) and others just are in normal (Hannover, instead of stellar) form or in desastrous form (Schalke, Stuttgart).
    The BPL seems to be going through a kind of transition period at the moment. The traditional top teams (Chelsea, Arsenal, City I suppose) are having a poor campaign, whilst the like of Spurs and Everton are really looking likely to break into the top 4 this year. I literally have no idea where anyone's going to end up come May, besides United (top, of course). I've only recently started watching Bundesliga since everyone has been raving about it recently (admittedly only the highlights) and I'm not seeing any really decent teams outside Bayern, Dortmund and Leverkusen, none that could challenge those 3 anyway.
    Edit: Speaking of Schalke... Somehow I think they will get eaten alive in Istanbul in that current form of theirs. That is, if playing CL does not suddenly flip a switch and they go from 0 to 100% in an instant.
    Galatasary have been brilliant this year in UCL, and now they have Drogba and Sneijder as well. If they can make it work with those two in the side, I see them steam-rolling most teams, Schalke included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumpin Jack Flash View Post
    What does that have to do with competitiveness? The league, itself, is more competitive than the BPL. Not conceding a shot in under three matches is not that big a deal when you're playing a relatively poor Wolfsburg side and a Schalke side in terrible form.

    Using two and a half matches to say that the league is uncompetitive doesn't make sense, since you're disregarding pretty much the entire season. Bayern have just been that good this season in the Bundesliga, and the Champions League is a different competition that requires different qualities.

    Arsenal actually turned up for this match offensively, because it's a big CL game. They're a great team that has had some bad results and performances, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of having good games.
    Yea, I admit I don't watch the Bundesliga much (ESPN screwed me over when I tried to get it, so I ed that idea off) but you can understand my skepticism when I'm hearing facts like that. Of course it matters, no team can be that good, there clearly has to be something poor about the opposition as well.

  15. #415
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    The CL isn't a particularly good way to judge which league is better, if indeed there is any way to judge. Otherwise how the fudge did Chelski win it last year!
    I wasn't judging them by the CL game tonight, I didn't even watch that game. And Chelski won by pure luck. No two ways about it. After the 1/4 finals they went on the luckiest run of games I have ever seen. They been destroyed in all 3.

  16. #416
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    What causes most grief is Wenger said we are a second half team, we just give teams to much respect in the first half of matches. Tonight was the no different, first goal was a cracker but the second was a poor one, the third was pure comedy. When I looked at the line up I couldn't see a formation of any kind.

    Szczesny, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsey, Podolski, Cazorla, Walcott.

    Pod and Walcott playing as wingers so no strikers? Walcott playing up front on his own? Arteta and Ramsey both playing a holding role after Wenger has said he doesn't think the role exists in the current game. Wilshire and Cazorla playing the same role, but without a target man who are they supposed to play forward to? TV5 at left back! we can't play a back three because Pod and Walcott don't track back.. The lads work so hard but the tactics are a mess, or non-existent..

    That said, Bayern didn't impress me as much as the score line or their form suggests. Real, Utd, Barca, Juve, Milan all look stronger.
    I was hoping that Arsenal could do Bayern tonight although there was a very slim chance that would happen. The only team I despise more than Bayern in Europe is Real Madrid. Bayern are robotic; they are like a machine albeit a really well oiled one. Unfortunately, even though Bayern didn't play at their very best they were still a step above Arsenal. How many more defeats like this until Wenger wakes up and smells the coffee? Like you Halie, I saw no formation and watched as a bunch of headless chickens wearing red ran around in the first half chasing shadows. Can someone also tell me what Steve Bould's job actually is? I'm sure he was brought in to improve the quality of the Arsenal defending but it smacked of naivety and cluelessness tonight - the second and third goals conceded by Arsenal were shockers tbh. As for the players themselves, Walcott and Podolski blew hot and cold, Arteta lacked mobility and Ramsey was shown yet again to be out of his depth at this level.

    Quote Originally Posted by bradavies
    Galatasary have been brilliant this year in UCL, and now they have Drogba and Sneijder as well. If they can make it work with those two in the side, I see them steam-rolling most teams, Schalke included.
    I think it will still take time for those two to settle in. Gala did brilliantly to qualify from the group stages (they only had one point from the first three matches remember) but even with Schalke not doing well domestically I can still see them coming through this tie.

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  17. #417
    SonofaBooyah's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Erebus Pasha View Post
    I was hoping that Arsenal could do Bayern tonight although there was a very slim chance that would happen. The only team I despise more than Bayern in Europe is Real Madrid. Bayern are robotic; they are like a machine albeit a really well oiled one. Unfortunately, even though Bayern didn't play at their very best they were still a step above Arsenal. How many more defeats like this until Wenger wakes up and smells the coffee? Like you Halie, I saw no formation and watched as a bunch of headless chickens wearing red ran around in the first half chasing shadows. Can someone also tell me what Steve Bould's job actually is? I'm sure he was brought in to improve the quality of the Arsenal defending but it smacked of naivety and cluelessness tonight - the second and third goals conceded by Arsenal were shockers tbh. As for the players themselves, Walcott and Podolski blew hot and cold, Arteta lacked mobility and Ramsey was shown yet again to be out of his depth at this level.
    It's very unfair on Arsenal fans that they have to accept defeats like this as well. Arsenal should be a team that can at least match big teams like Bayern Munich on paper, but the fact is that even on paper it all pointed towards a Bayern win. They can't even say stuff like "he played poorly" or "the team didn't turn up today" or stuff like that. Bayern simply have better players in every single position in comparison to Arsenal, and it shouldn't be like this. They were in a UCL final just 7 years ago remember, how the team has self destructed in that time is beyond me.

    I think it will still take time for those two to settle in. Gala did brilliantly to qualify from the group stages (they only had one point from the first three matches remember) but even with Schalke not doing well domestically I can still see them coming through this tie.
    Probably, yea, although they will probably still play both of them, regardless of how there doing.

  18. #418
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Tbh this is the worst Arsenal side since Wenger took over. Watching them lose like that felt depressing.
    Awful defence, lack of movement, low motivation, zero creativity (the list can go on forever).
    The owners should either spend big and get some top players or get a new manager. Heck do both if necessary.
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  19. #419
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Quote Originally Posted by bradavies View Post
    I wasn't judging them by the CL game tonight, I didn't even watch that game. And Chelski won by pure luck. No two ways about it. After the 1/4 finals they went on the luckiest run of games I have ever seen. They been destroyed in all 3.

    Yeh, that's kind of my point, the CL is a crap shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by bradavies
    It's very unfair on Arsenal fans that they have to accept defeats like this as well. Arsenal should be a team that can at least match big teams like Bayern Munich on paper, but the fact is that even on paper it all pointed towards a Bayern win. They can't even say stuff like "he played poorly" or "the team didn't turn up today" or stuff like that. Bayern simply have better players in every single position in comparison to Arsenal, and it shouldn't be like this. They were in a UCL final just 7 years ago remember, how the team has self destructed in that time is beyond me.
    Disagree with that. Bayern have a team, a formation and tactics and when plan A isn't working they have enough depth to try plan B. Most of all though they have a defence that works as a unit. The destruction is simple, we sell our best players, even before that Wenger instilled the ridiculous 1 year contracts for over 30's so players became unsettled or just left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erebus Pasha
    I was hoping that Arsenal could do Bayern tonight although there was a very slim chance that would happen. The only team I despise more than Bayern in Europe is Real Madrid. Bayern are robotic; they are like a machine albeit a really well oiled one. Unfortunately, even though Bayern didn't play at their very best they were still a step above Arsenal. How many more defeats like this until Wenger wakes up and smells the coffee? Like you Halie, I saw no formation and watched as a bunch of headless chickens wearing red ran around in the first half chasing shadows. Can someone also tell me what Steve Bould's job actually is? I'm sure he was brought in to improve the quality of the Arsenal defending but it smacked of naivety and cluelessness tonight - the second and third goals conceded by Arsenal were shockers tbh. As for the players themselves, Walcott and Podolski blew hot and cold, Arteta lacked mobility and Ramsey was shown yet again to be out of his depth at this level.
    Wenger is convinced he can build another Barca, and Cazorla and Wilshire could be the basis of such a team. But Arteta isn't a holding player and Walcott isn't a striker (not in the 'play me up front' sense anyway), just as Podolski isn't a winger and Ramsey, isn't an anything. Bould has become a mystery to me, our back line bears no resemblance to his time, that zonal marking at corners, wtf is that about!!! Can you imagine Adams being told to mark a zone at a corner, he'd think you lost the ing plot...
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; February 19, 2013 at 06:03 PM.

  20. #420
    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: Champions League 2012/2013

    Knew we were gonna lose when we played Ramsey.

    I suppose it's naive of me to think we'll pull this back in some miraculous fashion.

    We can still do it! That said. I hope we'll give them more of a fight next time, hopefully working off the back of consecutive wins against Everton and Tottenham.
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