(RotS) Gempei War Mod

[Hikaru Genji]

The sound of the Gion Shoja bells echo the impermanence of all things; the color of the sala flowers reveals the truth that the prosperous must decline. The proud do not endure, they are like a dream on a spring night; the mighty fall at last, they are as dust before the wind

With such words opens the Tale of the Heike, the embellished account of Japan's Gempei War (1180-1185) which is frequently seen as the beginning of the samurai class's dominance and is the focus of the Rise of the Samurai DLC. That DLC is certainly excellent, perhaps better from the get-go than vanilla Shogun 2. But there is certainly still a lot that can be improved upon. This mod...perhaps it would be appropriate to call it an enhancement of RotS, seeks to bring it up to a greater level of historical accuracy and, where possible, capture the melancholic tone of the events.

Currently I plan on carrying out several smaller projects that will ultimately work together to greatly enhance RotS, these include: A recolor of the various clans (For example, the Minamoto color was white, not blue, and the Fujiwara color is commonly seen as being purple) and a recolor of generals, new images for loading screens events and, if possible, unit and general portraits, changes made to unit size and the removal of some particularly ahistorical units (fire-bomb throwers come to mind immediately, as do Foot Samurai), and, finally, new events based on historical occurrences. Perhaps even adding in a special unit of Kiso "flaming oxen" is in order .

In any case, I am very new to modding; however, this project has been a dream of mine since I first heard of the RotS DLC, so I am willing to learn whatever is necessary to see it to fruition. I hope to slowly but surely get this project off the ground. If you have any suggestions/ideas or would simply like to help please don't hesitate to let me know!

[Erwin Rommel]

New images of loading screens? Just tapped me and I'll find some....though most dont go beyond 1000+ x 500+ in size...

[Hikaru Genji]

Thank you! You're the man when it comes woodblock prints (And Date Masamune)!

[Hikaru Genji]

Alright, I've done a little work this morning and figured that I may as well post a screenshot to show that things are indeed coming along. Here are some levies with some recolored armor, aiming to more accurately reflect the appearance of troops during the period, as armies would certainly not have a uniform armor color. I chose white, red, and green for the lacing because, after looking over some scrolls that illustrate The Tale of the Heike those colors appear to the most common.

Fukuhara Taira:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kamakura Minamoto:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Surveyor K]

Looking good there, I have been waiting for something like this for ROTS.

[Loger]

Agreed, hope to see this mod come to fruition

[Hikaru Genji]

Just thought I'd post another quick update for those interested, and take the time to explain what I have planned in the way of textures. As has been seen, I'm working on retexturing levies and all other troops type, and these, while possessing a variety of colors, will appear the same across factions. Initially this may seem to be detrimental to the progress of a mod, which usually seeks to add diversity, but in this period armies themselves would appear fairly similar. Diversity will come across primarily through unique generals-- the designs of which I am basing off of descriptions in the Tale of the Heike and period or near-period artwork.

What this means is that, hopefully once the visual portion of this mod is finished, armies will be much more stunning and will appear closer to their historical inspirations. It also means that progress may be fairly slow, as each major "character"-- in this case being the generals each faction starts out with-- will be given unique textures. The good news is that I am beginning to move away from making amateur mistakes, and I am beginning to get the hang of things, so my progress is increasing rapidly. I plan on releasing the mod in parts, starting with textures.

And, as a sign of progress, here's the new (his arms still need work, but I thought another picture was in order) Minamoto no Yoshinaka, inspired by this description: "Lord Kiso was attired in a red brocade hitatare, a suit of armor laced with thick Chinese damask, and a horned helmet."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[DeMolay]

Great stuff Hikaru Genji , i like those textures and really hope you will realize your objectives with his mod , i'm a big fan of ROTS and there has been few mods for it sadly , so it's a very good news to see someone working on it !


I 've always wondered about spears though , something i didn 't understand yet was why they put "naginata" only armies in Gempei , i thought spears were used as well , even though not as intensively as Sengoku Jidai , on several Heian paintings we see spear wielding warriors


Maybe adding one unit of spear wielding monks and samurai , like one unit for each tree would add variety to the roster maybe ?

My knowledge of Gempei is quite superficial though , maybe there was an objective reason why they left out spears although i have trouble to believe it was historical accuracy . Anyways i wish you the best of luck for this endeavour , it's really good news that someone is working on ROTS !

[Brutalsubtlety]

…enhancement of RotS
Oopsie – I messed my pants…
Worth it.
…not least because the unblinking eye shall now be gazing with its ghastly intent towards this magnificent idea. Magnificent brainchild, good luck.

[Himster]

Finally, I've been waiting for something like this for ages.
The minamoto colour was blue, but you're right in saying that their banners were white.
Can you also add variety to the samurai armor, the clone-like uniform in the vanilla was depressing, especially the large quantities of those massive shoulder pads (which did exist, but not in that quantity). Spears were also used. Horos were used for the first time, but in very small numbers and might not be applicable in total war. Sail powered sea vessels were also used. The sword attendants in vanilla are pure fiction from modern anime. Fire bombs were first introduced by the mongolians, long after the gempeir war. Pirates were an important feature in this period as mercenaries and as a threat, much more so than the sengoku period. Also more samurai units would be nice, particularly melee orientated units.

Cheers.

[Hikaru Genji]

Thanks guys! It's always nice to hear that people are excited for this.

@Himster: Some great ideas! The appearance of samurai will definitely become more varied-- both in regards to color and uniform. O-Sode will certainly be removed from all foot soldiers, as every source I've read mentions that they would be a large hindrance to any unmounted warrior. Spears are something I am considering, though to be honest I have yet to find any source which claims that they were used during this period. Could you by any chance provide me with one? Horos are another thing that I've been a bit troubled by. Aside from not being used in great quantity, they also lacked the wooden frames that we see in vanilla horos, and so would not always be "inflated." Perhaps I could make a separate pack that includes a few units with horos for those interested...

In any case, thanks again for your support and suggestions! I am steadily making progress on this day by day, and should have the modified unit appearances finished up fairly soon.

[Himster]

@Himster: Some great ideas! The appearance of samurai will definitely become more varied-- both in regards to color and uniform. O-Sode will certainly be removed from all foot soldiers, as every source I've read mentions that they would be a large hindrance to any unmounted warrior.

Excellent.
What about naval samurai (and navel monks were a thing too), they seem to have had shoulder-pads.
I brought it up initially simply because to my eyes, compared to contemporary illustations, they look about 30% too large, even for cavalry units can their size be modded?

Spears are something I am considering, though to be honest I have yet to find any source which claims that they were used during this period.

There are sources implying that during the Nara period that state the Yamato army was based on the chinese model and the spear was the main weapon of the time, I find it unlikely that in such a short period of time (well 100 years) this practice would completely disappear.

Horos are another thing that I've been a bit troubled by. Aside from not being used in great quantity, they also lacked the wooden frames that we see in vanilla horos, and so would not always be "inflated." Perhaps I could make a separate pack that includes a few units with horos for those interested...

The horo thing is awkward, there are Edo illustrations that depict horos from the gempei war as being supported with wooden frames, while we should take this with a gain of salt, I'm not convinced that this is reason enough to eliminate horos from inclusion. As to the quantity issue and based on edo illustrations it would be appropriate to apply horos only to generals and maybe unit officers, but certainly the officer leading the samurai unit should have a horo.
Sashimonos are another thing to consider in limited numbers also.

[Hikaru Genji]

Ah yes, the wonderful naval battles of the period! I admittedly wasn't thinking of the ship crews when I responded to you, but they will retain shoulder pads. I agree that they do seem a little large, but unfortunately I don't think they can be modded. If it is possible I would imagine that it would require come sort of mesh modification, which is currently beyond my ability.

About the spears, I certainly agree that it seems highly unlikely that they would so completely fall out of favor. It's something I've been trying to dig up information on, but so far haven't had too much success. According to Thomas Conlan in the book Weapons & Fighting Techniques of the Samurai Warrior (ostensibly of the "coffee-table" variety but quite reliable in general) spears fell out of favor during the Heian period, and that they don't appear again in records until the 13th century, at which time they were somewhat of a "poor-man's naginata." I still haven't completely written them out yet, however, and am considering perhaps making them a research technology or equipping a weak levy-type unit with them.

I agree that horos, if included, ought to be left for commanders, and have since my last post pretty much decided that I will make an optional pack that includes horos for select units. They most likely were, in some form, a part of warfare during the period so I figure that including slightly anachronistic horos is the same as not including any at all. Luckily they are very easy to make optional, so both (presumable) parties can be satisfied.

Thanks again for your suggestions— I really appreciate them!

[Himster]

Ah yes, the wonderful naval battles of the period! I admittedly wasn't thinking of the ship crews when I responded to you, but they will retain shoulder pads. I agree that they do seem a little large, but unfortunately I don't think they can be modded. If it is possible I would imagine that it would require come sort of mesh modification, which is currently beyond my ability.

There are small flat shoulder pads in the vanilla shogun 2, I'm thinking of the Shimazu daimyo. Perhaps this could be commandeered.

About the spears, I certainly agree that it seems highly unlikely that they would so completely fall out of favor. It's something I've been trying to dig up information on, but so far haven't had too much success. According to Thomas Conlan in the book Weapons & Fighting Techniques of the Samurai Warrior (ostensibly of the "coffee-table" variety but quite reliable in general) spears fell out of favor during the Heian period, and that they don't appear again in records until the 13th century, at which time they were somewhat of a "poor-man's naginata." I still haven't completely written them out yet, however, and am considering perhaps making them a research technology or equipping a weak levy-type unit with them.

I'm afraid my expertise is purely art history, military history is just my hobby, so just coffee table stuff too. I could tell you the exact species of plants used to dye Taira banners, but I can't tell you what the men underneath them were carrying.

[Durruti1936]

I wish you the best of luck with this project, Hikaru Genji! I've not been around for a while and won't be for some time (working long and hard in an Olympics/Paralympics support role!) so have only just read your message.

I did manage to get a version of my own Gempei visuals mod ("Way Of Horse And Bow"http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=534777 ) to play with the latest game patch but a major annoyance is that my little trick of replacing the 16th Century nobori banners of land units with earlier hata jirushi just doesn't work any more. The flags appear on the campaign and battle maps but the flagpoles are invisible:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The clan selection screen:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Bit disenchanted with the whole thing to be honest. If I could go back to my pre-FotS patch 14 set-up I would. Having no interest in the FALL of the Samurai era I've seen my main HD eaten up by Gigabytes of stuff that is of no benefit to me until almost full. Graphics like the chieftain portrait in the clan selection screen above look worse in my opinion - dull and flat. That and the more you learn about the internal workings the more restrictions you seem to find on modding and it only seems to get worse with each patch. Perhaps just my perception...

Anyway enough of the whining - hopefully I'll get enthused again when I have more time on my hands and a better rig. I'll certainly be looking out for further developments in your exciting project and I love the variegated armour colours which certainly suit the period

A few thoughts:
1) Spears had been in use in Japan during the time of the Chinese-style conscript system and were known as hoko or te-boko. These were socket-head weapons as opposed to the tang-headed yari that first appeared in the 14th century but didn't really become common until the 15th/16th. The reason spears were not popular during the RotS era is clear - they were best suited to disciplined close-order formations whereas the 10th-14th centuries were fought by loose clouds of warrior bands that favoured the slashing naginata of the individual.
2) The translations of chronicles often mention "red brocade" yoroi-hitatare (armour robes) being a distinction of high ranking generals. Brocade is cloth highly decorated often with gold and silver designs - illustrations often depict samurai taisho with gold patterned robes. However Arai Hakuseki's "Armour Book In Honcho-Gunkiko" suggests that it was a privilege of the generals to wear Nishiki-Kinran - fine gold brocade consisting of gold base with a raised gold pattern but notes that red and blue-black could also be the base colour.
3) Foot Samurai - was a bit ambivalent about these but if you look at early picture scrolls like the Heiji Monogatari http://learn.bowdoin.edu/heijiscroll/ you see quite a few foot warriors milling around wearing heavy O-yoroi armour and armed with either bow or naginata and tachi. They are mostly bare foot or bare leg and rough-looking so don't look like dismounted horsemen. What are they? Just better-equipped foot attendants or poorer independent warriors that can't afford a horse and have come along for the booty? Either way I think it worth considering keeping them for the sake of variety.

Again - all the best!

[Hikaru Genji]

Thanks for the message and for stopping by! That's quite a shame about the hata jirushi problem— I would agree that, as far as RotS is concerned FotS did more harm than good. Interestingly enough, though, regarding the "washed out" look of generals on the clan selection screen, I've found that with the Sekigahara Campaign installed they are much more highly detailed, and that the same is true when a custom texture is given to them, as will (happily) be the case once this mod is all finished.

And now regarding your other points...
1) That makes perfect sense— thanks for clearing it up.
2) That's quite interesting about the hitatare, thank you! As I mentioned in one of the previous post I'm attempting to use the Heike Monogatari and similar sources when possible, but there are a lot of instances where I am unsure of just what sorts of patterns to use when I need to do more...interpretive work. Those will certainly come in handy.
3) I agree with you regarding the "foot samurai." I will almost certainly rename them, and will add more variety to their uniform, but the basic concept probably is, as you said, good to keep around for the sake of variety.

It's probably getting to be time that I get some more screenshots up, so keep an eye out for those! One thing that's delaying progress (at least on the texture portion of the mod) is the randomization that occurs in units; i.e: If I remove color masks and recolor armor parts, I will end up with mismatched o-sode, amongst other things, which is obviously problematic. I am looking into a way to "link" corresponding parts, however, and once that's done I should basically be ready to release a "beta" of the texture mod and move onto modifying units, events, and all that other good stuff...Anyway, thanks again for the input, it's always appreciated!

[Himster]

I thought of more suggestions:
More ornate attatchments to helmets, and variety in torso armour: as it stands samurai in the ROTS are extremely uniform.
Upon further research the spear idea isn't sound.
If the hata jirushi banners can't be modded into the campaign and battles I would suggest just using the old banners: it's better than nothing.
There wouldn't be units of female samurai unless they were defending their homes in this period, I would suggest simply having a single female officer leading a small detachment of male samurai, this version is historically supported, in artistic depictions anyway.
Scabbards were incredibly ornate in this period, if they can be modded it would be amazing to see some famous patterns implemented.
Capital ships with sails, preferably based on the red seal trade-ship, as depicted in the paintings of Dan no Ura.

[smatussek1]

This looks fantastic, I hope this mod comes to fruition! Ive been hoping for something like this!
One thing I found really immersion breaking about the RotS campaign (at least when I had time to zoom into the fighting), was the swords the units are using, and the way they carry them when sheathed.. The units still use 'uchigatana' instead of tachis, which only really appear in the late 14th century i believe, also they wear them blade up rather than suspended blade down as it was done in that time period. I was hoping to see something more like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

where the blade looks more like this (on the left):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I dont know if creating custom 3d models for this game is even possible at all, but if someone could pull it off, it'd be the icing on the cake!

[Taishō]

As far as I'm informed, we can't even have scabbards, so (at least at the moment) it's impossible to mod historical tachi.

[iqwerty]

Please please fix the campaign as the vanilla ROTS is just wrong Kubota Fujiwara could be replaced by the Fujiwara Sekkanke (or Fujiwara Hokke, or the Fujiwara Regent House you'll know what I mean if you read the Tale of Heike) and have scattered territory plus very few soldiers; The Hiraizumi Fujiwara will have all the northern regions as it happened; also the two Taira clans need to be merged into one... anyway there are just too many things wrong in that campaign. Although fixing the campaign might be quite difficult...