MOS v1.41 Expanded Map & Enhanced Ancillaries for MOS & MOS Expanded Map

[MIKE GOLF]

I am currently not at home, so I am unable to look at anything tonight other than my gf, but I will check this out thoroughly tomorrow.

Also, if you will, check to see if it is in the latest MOS 1.25 campaign script as well.

[dIRECT0R]

The error messages about the forts and watchtowers are no big deal. As a side note, whenever using Geomod I use another copy of MOS and call it MOS experimental and use that only to make changes in Geomod. Geomod changes many layouts, so I end up doing a lot of cut and paste. As to the other files that are preventing you from opening it up I cannot say. I would read (and have read many times) the Geomod manual. I will do something up tomorrow or tonight with the map and post it here.

Thanks . Oh I do backup, rest assured, and I have been reading the manual. I'll keep trying myself. The last time I was extremely careful. All I did was draw the new borders of Vatavea across the desert and fill. They didn't intersect with anything, and in the Regions tab I validated the changes. Saved, tried it out, only to have the game freeze the second I click the 'START' button - and after a few secs gently redirect me back to the main menu . I read the manual, and I can't fathom what I did wrong. I'd never quite managed to master the damn thing.


EDIT: So wait, you're saying I should try copying-over everything from backup - except for the two map_regions files (there's two: one in data\world\maps\base, and another in data\world\maps\campaign\custom\Fellowship_Campaign). Those two (or just one among them?) are the only files that should be changed when I alter the border layout?

[MIKE GOLF]

Attached is the map regions that you requested dIRECTOR. I am not quite sure which issues you are having. I would start with a clean copy of TATW 3.2, followed by MOS 1.25. Make a copy of all that and rename it to whatever. Use Geomod only on the renamed file. If you are still having issues I recommend these links:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=202468

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=332992

Gigantus is without doubt one of the smartest people on the planet when it comes to MTW II. He will help with whatever issue you may be having far faster than I ever could.

Edit: I hope this is close to what you had in mind.

[dIRECT0R]

Attached is the map regions that you requested dIRECTOR. I am not quite sure which issues you are having. I would start with a clean copy of TATW 3.2, followed by MOS 1.25. Make a copy of all that and rename it to whatever. Use Geomod only on the renamed file. If you are still having issues I recommend these links:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=202468

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=332992

Gigantus is without doubt one of the smartest people on the planet when it comes to MTW II. He will help with whatever issue you may be having far faster than I ever could.

Edit: I hope this is close to what you had in mind.

I must be missing something.. where exactly do I copy-over the map_regions file?

I can find only two in my mods\Third_Age_3\data folder, and after replacing both of them with the above one - the borders stay exactly the same.

[MIKE GOLF]

I must be missing something.. where exactly do I copy-over the map_regions file?

I can find only two in my mods\Third_Age_3\data folder, and after replacing both of them with the above one - the borders stay exactly the same.

If you copy and paste this to the Third_Age_3/data/world/maps/base folder (make a copy of the original map_regions first) and then delete the map.rwm restart the the game, the new borders should show up in the Umbar region. If you have Gimp or a file viewer you can preview what the new borders look like.

The pic is small and probably blurry but you should be able to make out the borders around Umbar.

[dIRECT0R]

Ha! Finally got it, thanks for all your help! This is basically what I meant. Just one lingering issue remains: you're sure those geomod error messages about not being able to place certain forts and watchtowers are nothing to concern oneself with?

[MIKE GOLF]

Ha! Finally got it, thanks for all your help! This is basically what I meant. Just one lingering issue remains: you're sure those geomod error messages about not being able to place certain forts and watchtowers are nothing to concern oneself with?

I am only talking about when the program first starts up, I've never had any issues, I also get something about scythed chariots not being found or whatever too.

[dIRECT0R]

I am only talking about when the program first starts up, I've never had any issues, I also get something about scythed chariots not being found or whatever too.

Great . At present I have included this amendment on the vanilla TATW 3 map in my game, in my opinion however, it would be a beneficial change for MOS in general. A minor fix, but one that can add a lot of "feel" to any player campaigning around Umbar. It adds motivation for the Gondor player to retake the lost "colony" in the firth, and it takes nothing away from the Harad player.

[Stephanavich]

One bug, seems impossible to reach the Amon Hen settlement.

[Stylix]

One bug, seems impossible to reach the Amon Hen settlement.

Have you used the eagles? Just kidding, there are no eagles!
It seems that you are correct. I will contact MIKE GOLF and see about getting this fixed. Thank you for reporting this.

[MIKE GOLF]

One bug, seems impossible to reach the Amon Hen settlement.

Here is the Ammon Hen fix. I thought I might have had to remove that province from the game. When you go there be prepared to fight and climb some very steep hills. Thank you for the catch Stephanavich +rep

Replace the old map_ground_types located in the Third_Age_3/data/world/maps/base folder with the new one. Delete the map.rwm, you will have to start a new campaign to see the changes.

[dIRECT0R]

Incidentally, if anyone wants to have a look, here are the descr_strat.TXT file (from the folder Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign) and the map_regions.TGA file (from Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base) that I'm currently using.

[RockLeeRocco]

@dIRECTOR: nice work mate. Will try this out on a new campaign!

[Bob Doad]

Incidentally, if anyone wants to have a look, here are the descr_strat.TXT file (from the folder Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign) and the map_regions.TGA file (from Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base) that I'm currently using.

What do they do again?

[dIRECT0R]

What do they do again?

Hmm, a lot of minor changes/fixes. Let me see if I can summarize them somehow

• With Mike's help I managed to finally wrap my brain around geomod and I altered the borders of the three provinces around the Firth of Umbar to form something of a whole.
  
• Some towns are wooden castles now (e.g. Tharven, Imlad Carnen) some castles are towns (e.g. Gobel Ancalimon, in accordance with the Lindëfirion). This give more of an impression of there having been some sort of Gondorin defense line along the river Harnen.
  
• Notably, Dol Amroth is now a castle, in accordance with Lore: "Prince Imrahil lived in the great fief of Belfalas... in his castle of Dol Amroth by the sea, and he was of high blood, and his folk also, tall men and proud with sea-grey eyes", The Return of the King, p.22. Dol Amroth's population is also reduced to about 3,200: below that of Pelargir, instead of being larger. Methrast (just to the south) is now a much smaller castle, a motte-and-bailey, I sort of envisioned it as a look-out post that might later grow into a larger wooden castle.
  
• A lot of the new settlements have been reduced in size and population from large_towns to towns to give a more down-to-earth feel. Minas Arthor is now a large_town.
  
• A newly-added ford (in TATW 3) on the river Isen that directly exposed Derwath to attacks from Dunland has been removed - thus increasing the strategic significance of the crossing at the estuary of the Isen near Lond Angren.
  
• Many roads in Harad and Rhun were reduced in advancement (back down to dirt roads).
  
• And finally the appearance of all settlements that used to be a part of Gondor to the south and north (excepting Rohan of course) has been changed to the Gondor (sicily) model. Many will likely get changed back to Harad or Mordor soon enough if they're given time, but this is more accurate imo.

Here's a newer "version" of the two files: descr_strat.TXT file (from the folder Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign) and the map_regions.TGA file (from Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base). Additionally there's the map_features.TGA file (also from Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base) for removing that ford on the Isen.

To install, of course, backup your files and overwrite with these in their respective two folders - then delete the map.RWM file (from the Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base) before running the game for the first time. Here are a few screens as well.

[MIKE GOLF]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hmm, a lot of minor changes/fixes. Let me see if I can summarize them somehow

• With Mike's help I managed to finally wrap my brain around geomod and I altered the borders of the three provinces around the Firth of Umbar to form something of a whole.
• Some towns are wooden castles now (e.g. Tharven, Imlad Carnen) some castles are towns (e.g. Gobel Ancalimon, in accordance with the Lindëfirion). This give more of an impression of there having been some sort of Gondorin defense line along the river Harnen.
• Notably, Dol Amroth is now a castle, in accordance with Lore: "Prince Imrahil lived in the great fief of Belfalas... in his castle of Dol Amroth by the sea, and he was of high blood, and his folk also, tall men and proud with sea-grey eyes", The Return of the King, p.22. Dol Amroth's population is also reduced to about 3,200: below that of Pelargir, instead of being larger. Methrast (just to the south) is now a much smaller castle, a motte-and-bailey, I sort of envisioned it as a look-out post that might later grow into a larger wooden castle.
• A lot of the new settlements have been reduced in size and population from large_towns to towns to give a more down-to-earth feel. Minas Arthor is now a large_town.
• A newly-added ford (in TATW 3) on the river Isen that directly exposed Derwath to attacks from Dunland has been removed - thus increasing the strategic significance of the crossing at the estuary of the Isen near Lond Angren.
• Many roads in Harad and Rhun were reduced in advancement (back down to dirt roads).
• And finally the appearance of all settlements that used to be a part of Gondor to the south and north (excepting Rohan of course) has been changed to the Gondor (sicily) model. Many will likely get changed back to Harad or Mordor soon enough if they're given time, but this is more accurate imo.

Here's a newer "version" of the two files: descr_strat.TXT file (from the folder Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign) and the map_regions.TGA file (from Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base). Additionally there's the map_features.TGA file (also from Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base) for removing that ford on the Isen.

To install, of course, backup your files and overwrite with these in their respective two folders - then delete the map.RWM file (from the Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\base) before running the game for the first time. Here are a few screens as well.

Very impressive work, with your permission I would like to use your new map_regions to use in the next release. It is very logically done. Many of the suggestions and fixes you made have been included for the next release. I am reluctant to change cities like Dol Amroth, and the other cities that are in the MOS (and TATW) to castles. One reason is economy. Having Dol Amroth as a castle will severly limit the amount of income generated by that city. I will also look into the other changes you have made and get with the MOS team for their feedback as well. I think making Minas Arthor into a large town will help Gondor. Also can you give the x, y coordinates for the ford on the Isen you refer to? I will also look at changing some of the towns into castles where you have done so as well.

[Ngugi]

If MIKE's happy then I'm happy, good work dIRECTOR +rep

[dIRECT0R]

Very impressive work, with your permission I would like to use your new map_regions to use in the next release. It is very logically done. Many of the suggestions and fixes you made have been included for the next release. I am reluctant to change cities like Dol Amroth, and the other cities that are in the MOS (and TATW) to castles. One reason is economy. Having Dol Amroth as a castle will severly limit the amount of income generated by that city. I will also look into the other changes you have made and get with the MOS team for their feedback as well. I think making Minas Arthor into a large town will help Gondor. Also can you give the x, y coordinates for the ford on the Isen you refer to? I will also look at changing some of the towns into castles where you have done so as well.

Re Dol Amroth, I'm aware that income of that settlement will be reduced - but you have to keep in mind you've expanded the map. In the vanilla 1.25 version of the expanded map there are about five or six new settlements, several with ready-made ports for trade, available to Gondor. When you play Gondor you're supposed to be struggling against overwhelming force from two or three directions, imo a reduced Dol Amroth contributes to that. In addition I always thought Lore should be primary, and then a playable model should be built around it, rather than vice versa. (It goes without saying anyone can use the files.)

I've increased the size of Minas Arthor (since its the capital of Lossarnach), but I've correspondingly reduced the size of Minas Arnach (which is part of Lebennin, the capital of which is Pelargir). The axemen are more readily available, but I don't think the net result is much assistance to Gondor.

Regarding the ford on the Isen, um, if by "coordinates" you mean the figures under "Position:" in Geomod, then the figures were about "130, 162". If you follow the river Isen from its estuary near Lond Angren, then the removed ford is the one after the one near Lond Angren - but before the influence of the river Adorn. The only one that directly connects the province of South Dunland with Derwath (Minhiriath_Province).

If MIKE's happy then I'm happy, good work dIRECTOR +rep

Ty, Ngugi

[dIRECT0R]

Btw, I'd also just slightly moved the settlement of Iach Sarn (Sarn Ford) down to the actual ford on the Brandywine, and made it a motte-and-bailey instead of a village. If I recall, it was a Ranger outpost, not just one in a collection of Shire villages.

[jpempire]

Is this now compatible with DCI?