The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
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"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Or how can you claim the founders would want people to have access to weapons you dont need. Machine guns, and I am going to now call semi-automatic rifles with 100 round drums machine guns, are prob not what the ing founders had in mind when they said people should have access to arms. Why the should modern society be dictated by a bunch of dead people who never envisioned machine guns?
You can defend your home with handguns and shotguns. You dont need high capacity drums or automatics. And this argument the criminals will get the guns anyway well duh. Of course they will. But they get them now too. Illegally. The weapons are smuggled in from states with no gun restrictions or from Mexico. Or guns are smuggled into Mexico from Texas. And drug dealers will always have weapons because they need them to kill other drug dealers moving into their turf.
But your right to own whatever weapon you like has unintended consequences the founders didnt ing think about. Like how sick s can get their hands on these legal guns and shoot and bunch of people dead. Aurora, Arizona, Sandy Hook, Portland, Vtech all ing legal firearms. The NRA answer to this was to make a list of lunatics. Brilliant answer. It wasnt to reform the mental health system that was raped by republicans or fund new mental healthcare programs. Nope he just wants to make a list of lunatics. No restrictions on hundred round drums. No restrictions on automatics. He would prob favour reductions on machine gun ownerships. And by Machine gun in this instance I am referring to guns like the M249.
Hey but if you live in this guys state you can legally buy an M249 Saw:
Wow imagine if the guy at Aurora had this LEGAL ing LMG. Would it really have matter if someone in the theatre was packing?
You have to read everything in the constitution in a modern context. We have changed the constitution more than 24 times I believe. So the right to bear arms is not enshrined in some unchangeable constitution. Its just VERY VERY ing hard to change anything.
Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; January 10, 2013 at 01:00 PM.
Stop hyperventilating dude, AFAIK these automatic weapons are very expensive, require a special license from the ATF and can even be taken from one state to another without a a written authorization that take 6 month to process. You need to be a weekend warrior all white man to buy these or rent one at a range.
Also what is wrong with making a list of lunatics or asking for psychiatric evaluation before buying a weapon ?
We ask people if they use glasses for driving cars in some countries.
« Le courage est toujours quelque chose de saint, un jugement divin entre deux idées. Défendre notre cause de plus en plus vigoureusement est conforme à la nature humaine. Notre suprême raison d’être est donc de lutter ; on ne possède vraiment que ce qu’on acquiert en combattant. »Ernst Jünger
La Guerre notre Mère (Der Kampf als inneres Erlebnis), 1922, trad. Jean Dahel, éditions Albin Michel, 1934
The point is you can buy them. Why did that fly over your head?
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Did i claim that? And the last part of that quote is your opinion.
Which people cannot buy. All machine guns sold now are not machine guns because they are not fully automatic.
Your right. Lets get rid of the First Amendment too, because i don't want a bunch of old guy's ideas dictating my modern society.
Again, that argument is flawed and can be applied to other rights. Stop using it.
And all statistically insignificant to the larger picture.
Did you also know that all M249 SAWs sold are semi-automatic? Why are you seirosuly ranting about a class of weapon that only causes 4% of all US homicides?
Oh don't give me that . How to interpret the Constitution and its amendments are still not agreed on to this very day. What your interpretation might be, might not be my interpretation.
Neither is free speech, the right to trial by jury, the right to refuse quartering of troops, and every other amendment out there.
You can own a fully automatic weapon even in California, but it is nearly impossible.Which people cannot buy. All machine guns sold now are not machine guns because they are not fully automatic.
http://californianfatrust.com/what-n...in-california/
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/FD030DWApp.pdf
Last edited by I WUB PUGS; January 10, 2013 at 01:31 PM.
I don't see how a full auto would be more deadly in a rampage shooting than a semi, tbh.
"People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.
I guess you could look at why we don't allow them for just anyone. You could start with why the NFA 1934 was even brought up.
Before it passed, anyone could run around with a Tommy Gun or BAR.
Not in this country.........you can import weapons from abroad that were made from the start as fully auto. That's in the NFA. In case you didn't know most of our military grade MGs are all of Belgian design or at least they've been bought up by FN.
Last edited by I WUB PUGS; January 10, 2013 at 01:38 PM.
Freedom of speech already has limitations to it... we are just asking for the same limitations to the right to bear arms. You should scream fire in a crowded theater because it will cause a panic and kill people. You should have the right to own machine guns or semi automatics because mass murders can also easily get ahold of them. The right to bear arms just not mean the right to bear ALL arms. So imo you fine with a shotgun at home.
Let it be applied to other rights then. I doubt the country will vote to repeal the freedom of speech.Again, that argument is flawed and can be applied to other rights. Stop using it.
Those mass-murders are insignificant?And all statistically insignificant to the larger picture.
Fact is it can be bought and I honestly ing doubt a semi-automatic M249 is any less dangerous than an automatic M249. Actually, a Semi is more powerful. Technically, its the bullet capacity and the rate of fire these weapons possess.Did you also know that all M249 SAWs sold are semi-automatic? Why are you seirosuly ranting about a class of weapon that only causes 4% of all US homicides?
Agreed. So lets stop imagining the founders opinion on muskets and swords should be set in stone. And what ever happened to Swords? Why isnt the NRA, besides being the National Rifle Association, supporting Americans right to own all types of arms like Swords?Oh don't give me that . How to interpret the Constitution and its amendments are still not agreed on to this very day. What your interpretation might be, might not be my interpretation.
Yeah I know... my point exactly. Everytime gun control is brought up the pro-gun crowd screams unconstitutional expletives. They did the same thing in the 1860s. And they lost.Neither is free speech, the right to trial by jury, the right to refuse quartering of troops, and every other amendment out there.
And Menelik there are lot of things wrong with advocating a list of lunatics. For one lunatics wont line up identifying themselves and two wouldnt it be better to advocate mental health reform so we find the people who need help and get them help before they go and kill people? Nope, prob not, lets just identify the sick people already identified and act like we did something good.
Then go to a state that has easier access and import to California without telling the authorities.
How about Aurora? The movie theater is a crowded space with a lot of people just sitting around in dense groups. A lot of rounds will miss and his the walls but a lot more will find very easy targets. You cant deny this.
But I agree a semi-automatic has better accuracy but again it doesnt matter when you have a high rate of fire with hundreds of rounds.
Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; January 10, 2013 at 01:45 PM.
Last edited by PointOfViewGun; January 10, 2013 at 01:51 PM.
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
OMFG another school shooting.
And it was with a shotgun. Might of had something to do with 2 injured instead of 2 killed.
Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; January 10, 2013 at 01:50 PM.
Sure, but what difference would it make in a spree shooting? I don't know if it even affected the kill stats of gangsters in general. I've heard full-auto/burst fire on rifles is a waste of ammo and that precision shots with semi-auto is actually more deadly, so how would it really affect anything?
That happened anyway. Fortunately he also happened to be a fool and got a 100-round mag which are notorious for jamming, and it jammed. In plenty of other shootings the perp used multiple magazines and reloaded when they ran out.
Last edited by Surgeon; January 10, 2013 at 01:58 PM.
"People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.
We are not really talking about gangsters shooting each other over turfs and drugs. Gun legislation should be aimed more at keeping guns out of sociopaths like the Aurora and Sandy hook shootings. An M249 would hit (wound or kill) at least 50% of the patrons in the Aurora theater.
Then why do you act as if Mass Shootings are a day to day occurrence? News Flash, they're not. Why is it when someone posts facts, and not something that leans either way no one responds or pays attention? Because they were proven wrong (this statement was aimed at both sides).
And yes, they are live. They just don't load an ammunition.
Also, Freedom does have a price. The price we pay for stuff like Freedom of Speech are groups and people like the KKK, and the price for being able to own weapons is people being murdered.
PS: How many of you here actually know what the AR in AR-15 stands for? (Hint, it isn't Assault Rifle).
Last edited by IlluminatiRex; January 10, 2013 at 02:07 PM.
I am the author of the "Weaker Towers" and "Officers Of" series of mods for Total War: Warhammer!
Originally Posted by Richard HolmesOriginally Posted by Jackie Fisher
That shouldn't be an issue of gun legislature but legislature on handling mentally ill people. Spree shootings are rare as far as guns are concerned, they aren't frequent enough to justify infringing on millions of gun owners who do not misuse their weapons.
Why would an M249 inherently hit more people? If he knew what he was doing I think he'd be just as effective with a semi as a machinegun.
"People don't think the universe be like it is, but it do." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
In Soviet Russia you want Uncle Sam.
The 2nd Amendment does have limitations. See National Firearms Act.
You know you can do that right? Yelling fire in a crowded theater is perfectly legal.
Again, rifles are not the problem. Remind me again what causes the majority of homicides in the US. Because it isn't rifles, by far.
Repeal? How about limit it until it becomes useless.
To the larger picture of gun crime? Yes.
Rate of fire is a non-issue with semi-auto m249 SAWs. They would be no different than any other rifle that uses a similar bullet.
Because they are the National Rifle Association and not the National Arms Association?
Yes, but importing them has big restrictions. Importing them costs even more money and time and qualifications.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-chapter-8.pdf
I was only half-wrong and forgot to mention people can get them if they were made before 1986 or by importing them.With certain exceptions, NFA firearms may only be imported for the use of the United States or any
State or possession or political subdivision thereof such as a law enforcement agency; for scientific or
research purposes; solely for testing or use as a model by a registered manufacturer; or solely for use as
a sample by a registered importer or registered dealer.
142
Importers may not import NFA firearms for
stockpiling or warehousing them at their licensed premises for the purpose of filling future orders from
qualifying agencies or dealers requesting sales samples. Imported NFA firearms may be stored in a
Customs Bonded Warehouse (CBW) or a Foreign Trade Zone (FTZ). NFA firearms may only be
withdrawn from these facilities to fill specifically approved purchase requests.
Wow, great addition to this thread.PS: How many of you here actually know what the AR in AR-15 stands for? (Hint, it isn't Assault Rifle).