The Gun Debate That Will Happen Whether You Like It Or Not

[I WUB PUGS]

Public hangings and fruit pelting.

No, some bleeding heart will complain about wasting food.

Totally off topic but did you know our food has been bred specifically to look prettier? The ugly food just gets thrown away. How stupid. Obviously talking about fresh foods. I'm sure Ragu uses the fuggliest of tomatoes in their "sauce".

[Col. Tartleton]

No, some bleeding heart will complain about wasting food.

Totally off topic but did you know our food has been bred specifically to look prettier? The ugly food just gets thrown away. How stupid. Obviously talking about fresh foods. I'm sure Ragu uses the fuggliest of tomatoes in their "sauce".

As long as it means the blacks and browns are starving I'm okay with it.

[tarvu]

I just think people need to recognize that the weapon doesn't cause the murder and thus legally taking away the weapon isn't going to solve the problem.

If we want to reduce murder rates we need to do something about the lawless murderous sons of .



Public hangings and fruit pelting.

I think you just need to stop with this one note defense of guns, no one ever in the history of gun controlled argued that taking away guns would completely stop all murders (at least not the incentive). They are just pointing out that an AR is pretty effective at killing elementary school children, among other things, and maybe we shouldn't be giving them to the mentally ill (or their irresponsible parents/etc).

I'm sure you will continue to argue how butter knives are just as lethal, and how spoons can be used to kill people also. That is because you don't live in reality where guns have a proven record of being more effective at killing people which is why all armies in the world now use guns, particularly assault type rifles, and not bows and arrows or knives or whatever ridiculous artifact you come up with.

I just wish that anti-gun control people would stop pretending they are retarded.

Guns aren't any more dangerous than kitchen knives, or cars. or fatty foods!!!

I'd love to see evidence of gang members in DC or some other big city hanging out car windows throwing hundreds of knives at a group of people and the collateral damage this caused. Because you know taking their guns away won't do anything at all!

[tarvu]

Nobody gave him a gun, he STOLE it! Christ, at least get your facts straight...

That's right he devised this ultimate heist from the armory in town being the mastermind criminal he was... oh wait no he just picked it up from his mother's house (not even locked in a gun safe) because he knew exactly where it was and how to access it because she took him shooting with it constantly.

Which is why I said "or their irresponsible parents" that is my problem, the NRA does not represent responsible gun ownership. They are constantly attacking background checks and writing in loopholes to gun legislation that makes it easier for criminals and psychopaths to get their hands on guns.

One of my employees a felon no less, who has priors for felony menacing with a weapon, was able to purchase a scoped semi-automatic assault type weapon (not a hunting rifle), modified with this stupid quick change triple clip (as in it has 3 clips in a Y) on trade for a Suzuki Samurai from a police officer in Colorado Springs. That is because trades on weapons between private individuals do not require a background check, it was illegal for the felon to possess the weapon but since no one searched him this was not a problem and he later had a friend broker a separate sale for the gun.

Legal gun ownership is ultimately responsible for virtually all gun crime in the United States and until we get real regulations that can hold both the industry and owners responsible gun control is where we need to address the problem first.

[brandbll]

That's right he devised this ultimate heist from the armory in town being the mastermind criminal he was... oh wait no he just picked it up from his mother's house (not even locked in a gun safe) because he knew exactly where it was and how to access it because she took him shooting with it constantly.

So if it's in a gun safe and she's a responsible gun owner none of this happens?

[I WUB PUGS]

So if it's in a gun safe and she's a responsible gun owner none of this happens?

Not her fault though, the NRA will fight to the death to prevent legislation requiring a proper gun safe.

[tarvu]

So if it's in a gun safe and she's a responsible gun owner none of this happens?

If she was a responsible gun owner she would never have taken him shooting, she would not have kept such weapons in her house knowing he was unstable (which all evidence shows she did). Then yes I believe it is much less likely that none of this would have happened.

There are plenty of people like the Newton shooter out there, go play an online computer game sometime and try not to run in to a psychopath who will threaten to murder you. The difference is thankfully most of these people are not born into hillbilly/gun nut families who give them access and training to use deadly weaponry so their threats and anti-social behavior stay contained in a virtual world.

Obviously it would be best to control this problem at its root (mental/social illness), but that is unlikely when we can't even get proper physical health screening in schools. Not to mention the potential for abuse. The rational solution is to put checks in place when giving someone access to deadly weapons to ensure that dangerous people do not have access to the guns.

Backround checks at all transfers of ownership.
Registry of firearms.
Background/home visits for all gun owners to ensure that anyone living with them who has access to the guns either is able to pass the same criteria as the gun owner or that the gun owner can reasonably ensure that person does not have access to the gun.

None of these were in place so what happened was:

His mother got a gun she should not have been able to own in Connecticut apparently (no checks in place for transfer of ownership that would have prevented this, she did not buy the gun out of the back of a ing van)

Despite being obviously disturbed to everyone around him, and his mother. She was allowed to not only live with him in a house with all these guns but also to take him shooting with it. If she can allow another person to shoot her guns, then what is the point of a background check at all?

[Whukid]

You know I had a hard time working out how you managed not to understand my posts concerning Whukid's weird introduction of race into the argument but this post highlights your inability to pay attention quite markedly.

You blatantly stated that you view all gun rights activists as paranoid nut cases because you watched Alex Jones debate Piers Morgan and that all christians are as extreme as the Westboro Baptist Church, but changed the subject when I brought up muslims to ask if you hated them too..

The only thing I did was state that it's kind've odd how gun rights people are always being called racist when the opposition is apparently far more openly bigoted towards people with different beliefs.

I'm not that big a fan of bans, but I don't see that much upside to owning a handgun for home defense over a shotgun. And the only reason you would ever need a 30 round magazine is to go ape, or you're just lazy and you'll use the "I don't want to have to reload as often at the range". Well, the point would be to keep the Adam Lanza's from not having to reload so often.

Personally I think there's nothing wrong with owning a shotgun and a bolt action and that's it.

Lol give me a break. It literally takes about 3 seconds to drop a mag and replace it, even if you're not a Navy SEAL. In fact, the higher capacity a magazine is, the greater chance of a jam. Had James Holmes been using tactical vest full of 10 round mags instead of some dumbass 100 round beta mag, he would've killed alot more people.


Secondly, I use 30 round magazines because they're more reliable than 60+ round magazines and far more accessible, not to mention cheap.


I must ask here, how many firefights have you been in to come to the conclusion that 30 round mags are too much? I feel like if the Marines thought that they were too much and unnecessary, they would issue 20 or 10 round mags instead..

[I WUB PUGS]

Lol give me a break. It literally takes about 3 seconds to drop a mag and replace it, even if you're not a Navy SEAL. In fact, the higher capacity a magazine is, the greater chance of a jam. Had James Holmes been using tactical vest full of 10 round mags instead of some dumbass 100 round beta mag, he would've killed alot more people.


Secondly, I use 30 round magazines because they're more reliable than 60+ round magazines and far more accessible, not to mention cheap.


I must ask here, how many firefights have you been in to come to the conclusion that 30 round mags are too much? I feel like if the Marines thought that they were too much and unnecessary, they would issue 20 or 10 round mags instead..

You're focusing on the "30" even though I said bolt action (and then conceded lever action) is what you should be allowed to have. And applying the Marines to civilians is quite frankly retarded and you failed at comprehending what I wrote. The Marines need a 30 round mag to go "ape", a civilian doesn't need this.

[Markas]

You blatantly stated that you view all gun rights activists as paranoid nut cases because you watched Alex Jones debate Piers Morgan and that all christians are as extreme as the Westboro Baptist Church, but changed the subject when I brought up muslims to ask if you hated them too..

Nowhere did I say I hated anyone or anything... why are you making stuff up? Is this honestly what your argument is boiling down to? To say it's weak would be a huge understatement. Go on, quote me where I stated I hated anything. Go on, do it now let's get it over so everyone can see because I'm tired of your consistently wacky temperament.

The only thing I did was state that it's kind've odd how gun rights people are always being called racist when the opposition is apparently far more openly bigoted towards people with different beliefs.

What the hell? You were the one that decided to (very strangely) bring race into it with your comment about gun-owners being accused of being racist. I never accused you of that and neither did anybody else. That made it all the stranger.

[MathiasOfAthens]

So can you not also train to use a gun safely without the express purpose of becoming an assassin? The point of your original comparison was to demonize gun owners and prove that the only purpose of owning a gun is to kill things, and that's just not true; 147 million Americans own firearms (probably more after December and the highest it's ever been), yet the murder rate in the US has reached a 50 year low. If the only reason people bought firearms was to kill eachother, that statistic should be quite different.

Should I speak French with you?

What was my original post and how does it demonize gun owners. When did I say the ONLY reason people bought firearms was to kill each other? No I said People have firearms to defend themselves. Responsible gunowners that is. However, the lack of GUN CONTROL that allows responsible owners to purchase guns and ammo so freely also ING ALLOWS Sociopaths to purchase guns and ammos. Aurora, Newtown, Vtech. Even the latest shooting in Portland highlights the problems we currently have with out gun control such as holding private sellers to the same standard as gun shops when selling guns.

My god man how many mass murders are there in Europe? How many? Because there seems to be at least 1 a month in the US. US murder rate is at a 50 year low!!! OMG... ITS STILL the highest in the Industrial world. 4.8 to be exact.

The real issue is we cant address gun control because a few Americans are afraid of an imaginary take over by an American Hitler/Stalin/Mao that will take our guns and rule as a dictator and the only thing standing in the way of this dictators vast arsenal and huge military is Americans armed with handguns and rifles and separated from each other. You know the saying right? Strength in Independence. Your stronger when your spread out from other armed people so the US military wont be able to subjugate the Republican neighborhoods because the gunowners will be spread out.

[tarvu]

Should I speak French with you?

What was my original post and how does it demonize gun owners. When did I say the ONLY reason people bought firearms was to kill each other? No I said People have firearms to defend themselves. Responsible gunowners that is. However, the lack of GUN CONTROL that allows responsible owners to purchase guns and ammo so freely also ING ALLOWS Sociopaths to purchase guns and ammos. Aurora, Newtown, Vtech. Even the latest shooting in Portland highlights the problems we currently have with out gun control such as holding private sellers to the same standard as gun shops when selling guns.

My god man how many mass murders are there in Europe? How many? Because there seems to be at least 1 a month in the US. US murder rate is at a 50 year low!!! OMG... ITS STILL the highest in the Industrial world. 4.8 to be exact.

The real issue is we cant address gun control because a few Americans are afraid of an imaginary take over by an American Hitler/Stalin/Mao that will take our guns and rule as a dictator and the only thing standing in the way of this dictators vast arsenal and huge military is Americans armed with handguns and rifles and separated from each other. You know the saying right? Strength in Independence. Your stronger when your spread out from other armed people so the US military wont be able to subjugate the Republican neighborhoods because the gunowners will be spread out.

This same right wing extremist gun culture is now actively promoting (extensive) gun ownership as a means to "keep society in check". United Nations passing a resolution on the rights of children? Time to stock up on more guns. Redistribution of wealth? Better get more guns for when our economy finally collapses under the weight of all those "free loaders". White people in "danger" of becoming a minority? Better get more guns for the upcoming race war.

Many gun owners in America are insane. Many more are alcoholics, or domestic abusers. We need to stop defending their "inalienable" rights to possess the means to make themselves so dangerous to society. Once we make gun ownership both a right and a responsibility that is carefully guarded I imagine we will see a drastic decline in mass shootings.

Anyways I'm going to have to disagree with the NRA and say that the problem is the real lethal guns designed and marketed as potential mass killers (More magazine capacity!!! Scopes on non-hunting rifles you know... for self defense "Semi-automatic" but don't worry you can make some alterations to increase that rate of fire even more..... again for self-defense), that are traded across the country like baseball cards and in the reach of every psychopath, and not the media that "glorifies" violence in fictional/virtual settings.

Oh and one other thing, why can't the democrats have our own insane congressmen calling for investigations into the extremist politics of Republicans who back these nutjobs? I mean I know it would be unjust to have a reverse-McCarthy running rampant through the government and bureaucracy but I feel it is unfair that this is not even a remote possibility. Despite right wing extremists being the actual terrorist threat they are.

[I WUB PUGS]

Bill Maher used to advocate a Leftist Craziness to counter the rightists. Too bad Democrats are spineless.

We're barely removed from the election and the Republicans are already digging in again and Obama is already showing signs of caving.

[Condottiere 40K]

The good news is, watching these American dramatics tends to sober up the rest of us from either letting the culture of violence permeate us beyond the superficial of watching movies and playing shooting games, nor becoming complacent with our compatriots when they exhibit over enthusiasm with such culture.

[IlluminatiRex]

Oh man, the joke of my Alaska "argument" went over some peoples heads. Guess what's statistically irrelevant in my Alaska "argument"? It would be the fact that Bears coming into homes is very rare. Sounds similar to mass shootings, but hey, who am I to judge? I'm just a 16 year old in New England who doesn't hunt, or personally have a need for guns. I don't have a fancy statistics degree, police experience, or anything that would make me "truly qualified" to engage in this debate.

[Whukid]

Nowhere did I say I hated anyone or anything... why are you making stuff up? Is this honestly what your argument is boiling down to? To say it's weak would be a huge understatement. Go on, quote me where I stated I hated anything. Go on, do it now let's get it over so everyone can see because I'm tired of your consistently wacky temperament.

And this is how you all sound to us-
Terrified Paranoiacs.

Aaaaand we have the reason Piers picked Alex Jones to go on his show..
So tell me, do you view all Baptists as nutjobs who hate gays and soldiers because of the Westboro Baptist Church?

Not necessarily the soldiers bit. The nutjob and homosexuals bit yeah. I mean come on, they're Christians.

...and therefore all muslims have a burning desire to blow themselves up for allah, right?
Gun rights advocates are clearly the racists..

Well Muslim isn't a race so perhaps you should look at your own preconceptions first.

What the hell? You were the one that decided to (very strangely) bring race into it with your comment about gun-owners being accused of being racist. I never accused you of that and neither did anybody else. That made it all the stranger.

Yes, no one has ever said that racist rednecks are the only ones clinging to their guns..

[Mithridate]

It should be mentioned, Whukid is not beating a dead horse

He is the dead horse -.-
Please move along

[Whukid]

What was my original post and how does it demonize gun owners. When did I say the ONLY reason people bought firearms was to kill each other? No I said People have firearms to defend themselves.

Wow, that's kind've a different turn from your earlier tone;

WTF dude do you have a comprehension problem?

A car's expressed purpose is to transport individuals.
A firearm's expressed purpose is to kill in either defence or offensive situations.

You train to drive a car safely.
You train to shoot a gun to kill or wound.

Do you ing get it? What other purpose does a firearm have if not to kill?

It seems that you did say the only reason a firearm exists is to kill, and target shooting is training to kill..

Responsible gunowners that is. However, the lack of GUN CONTROL that allows responsible owners to purchase guns and ammo so freely also ING ALLOWS Sociopaths to purchase guns and ammos. Aurora, Newtown, Vtech. Even the latest shooting in Portland highlights the problems we currently have with out gun control such as holding private sellers to the same standard as gun shops when selling guns.

Lol. Connecticut already had an assault weapons ban and the shooter stole the guns from his mother after killing her. He wasn't legally old enough to purchase anything. The Virginia Tech shooter and Aurora shooters had neither criminal records or any other reason to stop them from purchasing a weapon and ammunition. The former used Glock 17's with 10 round magazines

The latest shooting in portland was stopped by a CCW carrier and your chances of dying by evil black weapon are 112 in 300,000,000. You literally have more chance of getting struck by lightning.

My god man how many mass murders are there in Europe? How many? Because there seems to be at least 1 a month in the US. US murder rate is at a 50 year low!!! OMG... ITS STILL the highest in the Industrial world. 4.8 to be exact.

Source for the first part?

lets look at the murder rate in the US and where it's from. The murder per capita rate in the US triples when you get into heavy urban environments; places like Gary,Chicago, Alexandria, DC and Jersey City to name a few. What we have in common in all these heavy urban environments is they have excessively strict gun control laws. Chicago (which had over 500 [documented] murders via firearm last year) even has a "violence" tax on ammunition, while having literally one of the strictest gun regulations in the United States, as does the District of Columbia.

That last city comes with an interesting twist. Just across the river from DC, literally a stones throw away, lies Arlington, Virginia. You're apparently not from the US, so I'll give you alittle bit of background on these two cities; If a river didn't cut the two in half, you'd never know you crossed from Arlington into DC or Alexandria besides the landmarks. What's interesting is that Arlington has no gun restrictions outside of what the State of Virginia has already outlawed. You know something else? There were NO MURDERS IN ARLINGTON IN 2011. That's a murder rate per capita of zero.
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/01...011-70944.html

The SAME YEAR, Washington DC, with it's handgun ban, had over a hundred murders as of November, 132 the previous year at that time. In fact, in 2010 (the year before), DC had a murder rate of 21 per 100,000. In english, you had a higher chance of getting shot in the 9th ward than you did in Afghanistan. This is in a place where guns are illegal.
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/12...ars-70861.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.

The real issue is we cant address gun control because a few Americans are afraid of an imaginary take over by an American Hitler/Stalin/Mao that will take our guns and rule as a dictator and the only thing standing in the way of this dictators vast arsenal and huge military is Americans armed with handguns and rifles and separated from each other. You know the saying right? Strength in Independence. Your stronger when your spread out from other armed people so the US military wont be able to subjugate the Republican neighborhoods because the gunowners will be spread out.

Logical sense = zero

[Whukid]

It should be mentioned, Whukid is not beating a dead horse

He is the dead horse -.-
Please move along

What exactly do you do here besides post either beer related or personal nonsense?

[Whukid]

You're focusing on the "30" even though I said bolt action (and then conceded lever action) is what you should be allowed to have. And applying the Marines to civilians is quite frankly retarded and you failed at comprehending what I wrote. The Marines need a 30 round mag to go "ape", a civilian doesn't need this.

Why not? most US cities are more dangerous than active warzones. It would seem that the civilian population needs these weapons more than we do.