http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282 I didn't think he would offer an EU referendum, but after negotiations on powers to claw back. Thoughts?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282 I didn't think he would offer an EU referendum, but after negotiations on powers to claw back. Thoughts?
does even britain care if he crawls back under his rock?
There wont be a referendum. Cameron has kicked the issue into touch by 'promising' to have one if the Tories win the next election, and at the moment it seems unlikely they will win. He is attempting to subdue some of his more vocal backbenchers and disarm UKIP (who have the potential to take away Tory votes). The bête noire of Tory leaders going back to John Major has been the issue of Europe, on which their own party is divided on - don't forget, there are senior Tory europhiles too like Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine. I think any future Tory led referendum over the EU would require them to have a comfortable majority in Parliament first, which I can't see happening in the next election.
Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo.
I've spent the last couple of evenings reading up on the possible implications of the UK leaving the EU. It's far from a clear cut matter and there are some pretty good arguments both for and against. The fact is nobody knows what the implications will be because nobody has conducted a serious and unbiased assessment of what might happen.
I agree we won't see a referendum on UK membership of the EU. Cameron doesn't have the balls to do it and is just trying to quell the growing dissent in his own party and stave off the UKIP erosion of his voter support. His position of wanting the UK to stay in a reformed EU is trying to play both sides of the argument.
What I am worried about is the possible adverse effect on investment (and therefore jobs and the wider economy) Cameron's current position might have.
It would be a terrible mistake for the UK to leave the EU, flawed though it is. We gain more from it than we lose.
Will a Referendum happen? Next Parliament, if the Tories win, I think will force Cameron to act. He'd be under too much pressure from his promises this Parliament, and would stand to see a huge chunk of support shift to UKIP for certain if he refused at that stage.
He's played a clever game, though: he knows he's unlikely to win the next election. He knew that when he came into office, he won the wrong election. This Parliament was going to be an unpopular one from the start, because no matter who was in power the deficit and national debt would need to be tackled. Labour should have won the election: they should've had to lose popularity for cleaning up the mess they made.
It makes me wonder why the Tories even bothered going for Government this time round. They should've palmed the LibDems off onto Labour and let them form a Coalition and slaughter them in the 2015 round instead, once all the painful cuts had been implemented and everyone hated Labour.
If there is a referendum, I sincerely hope "Stay in" wins. Maybe that'd be a good thing, too, maybe it'll persuade the UK to actually get in about Europe and use our weight properly. The EU is a Franco-German game, we're easily big enough to make it a Franco-Anglo-German game if we decided to do so.
Before the last election he promised a referendum on issues relating to the EU, but we never got it. Its all irrelevant though since he wont be winning the next election - maybe he should have held one before he is booted out of office if he wanted to claw back some support. And I have no idea why he promised re-negotiations when we already know that such a thing is impossible.
Pretty depressing... I guess I would be somewhere between pro-Europe and a Eurosceptic. I generally support the idea, and I think all members get more benefits than they put in. I guess I believe we're more of the sum of our parts within the EU.
But there's so much that's wrong. There's some states that probably just shouldn't be in, like Greece, there's Euro is a huge up and there's not nearly enough democratic accountability. Loads of cash is wasted on agriculture. And I am certainly not for handing over sovereign powers.
An in-out referendum is a stupid idea really. In referendums like this nationalism tends to get in the way of sense. As Poach pointed out the only good outcome I could see from such a referendum would be the 'stay-in' option winning giving the UK no choice but to properly involve itself and use its weight to help forge the future direction of the EU, which is what it should be doing anyway.
Last edited by Azog 150; January 23, 2013 at 09:25 AM.
Under the Patronage of Jom!
Hang on did he offer a referendum or did he offer one after the next election (again) which to me means nothing as it has been said before.
The latter.
Whatever way you look at it it's a mess.
You've got an electorate who voted FORTY years ago to join the European Economic Community and apparently now quite uncomfortable and want to have their say on the European (Political) Union.
You've got an electorate who are for the most part totally ignorant of the issues involved and the arguments for and against.
You've got a Tory party that is probably going to self destruct (again) over the issue of the UK's relationship with Europe, all the while looking over their shoulder very worried about UKIP.
You've got a Labour party who have painted themselves into a corner - likely to win the next election in which case if they have a referendum they'll very possibly get an answer they don't want, and if they don't have a referendum they'll be accused of not listening to the electorate.
You've got British business leaders saying we should stay in.
You've got a PM who says he wants to re-negotiate our relationship with the EU but doesn't actually tell us what he wants to change.
You've got some voices in Europe saying "Like it or lump it" or "We'd be happy to see the UK leave."
You've got some other voices (apparently the Netherlands and Iceland, but probably some other smaller countries too) making sympathetic noises.
You've got the Germans between a rock and a hard place - they want the UK in as an ally for liberalising trade in the EU but at the same time not happy about the UK obstructing closer economic integration probably needed to save the Euro.
You've got five years of uncertainty about the future.
A right ferkin mess I tell you.
Last edited by Pielstick; January 23, 2013 at 04:09 PM.
This has got the US administration worried.
The Obama administration is working on a EU-US free trade agreement which might end up being the biggest US trade agreement since NAFTA and the Crown Jewel in Obama's diplomatic legacy. They were banking on being able to use UK leverage within the machinery of the EU to get "anglo-saxon" free-market principles to stick.
A UK referendum casts a great deal of doubt over things.
Does that mean the absurd tariffs on European cars will go away? Praise Obama! Although I doubt GM and Ford will be pleased.
Better.... French wine will now be the cheapest on the shelf!
Last edited by I WUB PUGS; January 23, 2013 at 03:57 PM.
EU leaders warn Cameron over membership referendum
SourceGermany and France have warned UK Prime Minister David Cameron that Britain cannot pick and choose EU membership terms after he pledged a referendum.
Mr Cameron said a poll would be held if the Conservatives were returned to power at the next general election, which is expected in 2015.
Voters would be asked to choose between renegotiated membership or exiting.
Germany said the UK could not "cherry-pick" while France said "a la carte" membership was not on the table.
However, in an apparent concession to Mr Cameron's concerns, German Chancellor Angela Merkel called for a "fair compromise" between the wishes of Britain and other EU states.
BBC Europe editor Gavin Hewitt says that Mrs Merkel is, as usual, being cautious. She wants to explore ways of keeping Britain in Europe but ultimately she is committed to more Europe not less Europe.
In Washington, the White House welcomed Mr Cameron's "call to remain in the EU", saying it believed that the UK was stronger as a result of its EU membership.
So it does not matter now; whatever outcome of the referendum is UK simply cannot leave.
This is hugely problematic in so many different ways. The EU is very valuable but it is greatly handicapped by politicians who wish to turn it into federal empire.
Furthermore the political power in the federal empire would be ruled based on population rather than contributions which mean that the more prosperous nations would be in the hands of politicians unable to even manage their own states. This mean that pro-European nations from Northern Europe really need Britain to support the anti-federalist side of the EU or the union may very well turn into something that they also are forced to leave by popular hatred of the union.
Its just a political ploy as said by other poster,s, Some disgruntled back bencher,s and UKIP have Cameron worried.
If the man was sincere he would hold a referendum this year.
On the E.U. side I do not think that Germany or France would cry that much if Britain left the political union. They would still trade with Britain.
Plus they could get on with their agenda for Europe without interference.
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