2012 NFL Season Thread

[Fluttershy]

Average doesn't dominate in the playoffs. Flacco is.

I agree.

however a career where he has never even made the superbowl and has 13 TDs to 10 turnovers is not dominant.

xcorps, do you consider Mark Sanchez to be a dominant playoff QB?

Statistically if you believe Flacco is dominant then you have to believe Sanchez is dominant

Flacco has a passer rating of 79.7 13 TDs, 8 picks and a 53.9% com percentage 7 wins, 4 losses.

Sanchez has a passer rating of 94.5 9 TDs, 3 picks and a 60.5 com percentage 4 wins, 2 losses.


now I know you guys enjoy being snide... but how is flacco dominant? These are the stats... Flacco actually is BETTER in the regular season then he is in the playoffs.


Ill link you the stats so you can see for yourselves
http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../gamelog/post/
http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../gamelog/post/

hes never won a big game, his stats in the regular season are average and his playoff stats are below average.

how Is flacco not average?

[the_mango55]

Dan Marino wishes he had TRent Dilfers Defense

He wishes he had Tom Brady's defense too. Or have you forgotten that the defense (and kicker) were the dominant units in the superbowls that Brady actually won?

[Vanoi]

I think the Patriots will beat the Ravens, but i hope they lose at the Superbowl. I would like to see the Falcons or 49ers win.

[xcorps]

I agree.

however a career where he has never even made the superbowl and has 13 TDs to 10 turnovers is not dominant.

Uh, he's been to the playoffs every single year he's been on the team....

hes never won a big game

Uhh, did you miss the Bronco Raven game?


Your insistence that Flacco is "only average" is kind of irrational and emotional. Flacco is a winner.

xcorps, do you consider Mark Sanchez to be a dominant playoff QB?

Strawman. We are discussing Joe Flacco and how he has been dominant in this years playoffs. Not Sanchez.

[Fluttershy]

He wishes he had Tom Brady's defense too. Or have you forgotten that the defense (and kicker) were the dominant units in the superbowls that Brady actually won?

vs St Louis? 86 passer rating is nothing special, so ill give you that

the other 2 wins? I'm sorry but Brady put up a passer rating over 100 and was dominant

Dilfer had a flacco esque QB rating of 80 in his win while only completing 12 of 25 passes.

Uh, he's been to the playoffs every single year he's been on the team....




Uhh, did you miss the Bronco Raven game?


Your insistence that Flacco is "only average" is kind of irrational and emotional. Flacco is a winner.



Strawman. We are discussing Joe Flacco and how he has been dominant in this years playoffs. Not Sanchez.

xcorp, Statistically Flacco has been an average quarterback in the playoffs, I gave you the links and the numbers. He is statistically average, thats not "emotional" thats fact. (I notice you completely ignored the statistics because they destroyed your argument)

"Flacco is a winner"- No hes not, FACT. In the NFL winners get these things called "Superbowl Rings".

Eli Manning is a winner, Joe Montana is a winner, Tom Brady is a winner. Flacco is not a winner because hes lost when it mattered most, strike that, hes never even managed to REACH the game that matters most.

Xcorp, you say Flacco is not average, can you provide some data to back this up? Ive shown that he is actually WORSE in the postseason then he is in the regular season.

[Fluttershy]

@Soviet - I gave you actual STATISTICS that PROVE Flacco has been an average quarterback in the playoffs and in the regular season.

Can you back up your argument that Flacco hasnt been an average quarterback?

You you ignore statistics that clearly show I'm right and then try and claim I'm the unreasonable one? How about you say "FS, you were right, Flacco has been an average QB and the numbers all back this up".

or explain to me how a 79.7 career QB rating in the playoffs isnt average

[jukeness]

Statistics really dont prove somebody's skill, there's a lot more to it than a bunch of stats.

[xcorps]

Fluttershy, all you have to do is look at his record. You want to try to convince people that Joe Flacco is an average QB, you're going to have to do more than post a couple of stats. He is taking his team this year to the AFC championship, and there's a good chance to the Superbowl. He has outperformed every other QB in the playoffs this year including Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. He has led his team to the playoffs every year he has been in the NFL.

You cannot argue with success.

[Soviet]

The usual inane rambling

I don't care what Joe Flack Cannon is or isn't. He's the only QB to win 5 playoff games in 5 consecutive years. Why does his stats being average matter? He still wins. If rings are a measure of success, you negate HUNDREDS of players that are exceptional at what they do and have done. Get real.

#TheFlutteringNeverEnds

[frozenprince]

Wow, he seriously added the tag "Flacco Ball washers" because we think he's a good, not GREAT QB?

There is some amazing homerism at play here.

I'd be scared of playing the Ravens this Sunday, no question I would be. Great deep ball QB, with super speedy, big bodied WR'ers against undersized CB's that have struggled against speed guys all year? The Match-ups were there last year, earlier this season, and this game. And the Ravens should have won last year and won already this year.

The Patriots aren't going to roll over the Ravens, if you think they are you're being blinded by your homerism. Period.

Edit: And stats don't tell the whole story, you have to look at the stats and see the context they're in. You look and you see he's got 13 TD's and 8 INT's in post season play, and just below a 54% completion percentage, you assume he's a bad playoff QB. If you REALLY look at his statistics, you'd notice his are 'average' due to his first 2 years in the league in the playoffs.

His first AFCCG he threw 3 INT's as a rookie with Derek Mason as his leading WR. His second loss he threw a couple INT's against an Indy team that went to the SB. Since then he's thrown 12 TD's to 2 INT's in the post season, and has a 61.4% completion percentage, as well as a passer rating of 122.6. I don't care who you are, those are great numbers.

He's a good regular season QB, but since 2010 he's been a GREAT playoff QB.

And like I said, using the antiquated passer rating stat isn't telling of good QB play, what you need to look at are TD splits and YPA. You're using stats to back up Tom Brady's 3 SB wins means you don't know that, yes, he was on a "run first" team with Corey Dillon and Kevin Faulk, and a great defense. He helped, but he did just as much as Flacco's done up to this year, he put up just enough TD's and drove just into range for Vinatieri enough to win them.

Since the team's been "put on his back" so to speak, he's yet to win another SB.

[Fluttershy]

Statistics really dont prove somebody's skill, there's a lot more to it than a bunch of stats.

... actually they do.

lets take passer rating for example... the top 5 this year were Rodgers, Manning, RG3, Wilson and Ryan... Those are all good QBs

lets look at the bottom 5

Cassel, SAnchez, Henne, Weeden, Locker...

Now you will notice a correlation... the top 5 are really good QBs and the bottom 5 are really bad (if you think otherwise give reasons)

Flacco is average, Ive backed up my opinion with... facts, something no flacco fan has been able to do

[frozenprince]

Stats lie. Stats lie ALL THE TIME.

You have to look at the context OF the stats, and ask questions of the stats, not just look blindly at them.

Derek Anderson in 07' is a prime example of stats lying.

[Fluttershy]

Wow, he seriously added the tag "Flacco Ball washers" because we think he's a good, not GREAT QB?

There is some amazing homerism at play here.

I'd be scared of playing the Ravens this Sunday, no question I would be. Great deep ball QB, with super speedy, big bodied WR'ers against undersized CB's that have struggled against speed guys all year? The Match-ups were there last year, earlier this season, and this game. And the Ravens should have won last year and won already this year.

The Patriots aren't going to roll over the Ravens, if you think they are you're being blinded by your homerism. Period.

Edit: And stats don't tell the whole story, you have to look at the stats and see the context they're in. You look and you see he's got 13 TD's and 8 INT's in post season play, and just below a 54% completion percentage, you assume he's a bad playoff QB. If you REALLY look at his statistics, you'd notice his are 'average' due to his first 2 years in the league in the playoffs.

His first AFCCG he threw 3 INT's as a rookie with Derek Mason as his leading WR. His second loss he threw a couple INT's against an Indy team that went to the SB. Since then he's thrown 12 TD's to 2 INT's in the post season, and has a 61.4% completion percentage, as well as a passer rating of 122.6. I don't care who you are, those are great numbers.

He's a good regular season QB, but since 2010 he's been a GREAT playoff QB.

And like I said, using the antiquated passer rating stat isn't telling of good QB play, what you need to look at are TD splits and YPA. You're using stats to back up Tom Brady's 3 SB wins means you don't know that, yes, he was on a "run first" team with Corey Dillon and Kevin Faulk, and a great defense. He helped, but he did just as much as Flacco's done up to this year, he put up just enough TD's and drove just into range for Vinatieri enough to win them.

Since the team's been "put on his back" so to speak, he's yet to win another SB.

So your argument is "Flacco is really good when you dont count the games he was really bad in".

dillon had ONE thousand yard rushing season with the pats and Faulk was never more then a 3rd down back... You really are just making stuff up as you go a long.


its amazing how you can look at the numbers and yet still live in denial. 13 TDs to 8 pics with a low 50s comp% does NOT make you a great post season QB.

Am I denying Flacco had a nice stretch? No, but you cant discard his bad games and just focus on the good.

in his career hes been average, all the numbers back me up on this.

[Fluttershy]

Stats lie. Stats lie ALL THE TIME.

You have to look at the context OF the stats, and ask questions of the stats, not just look blindly at them.

Derek Anderson in 07' is a prime example of stats lying.

gonna explain?

stats could "lie" for say a fluke year, but not over a 4-6 year stretch like Flacco's career, hes consistently average. THats the stats telling the truth.


Ive seen flacco play many times, hes not bad but hes not a top tier QB, his numbers are good not great, his teams do ok in the playoffs but arent good enough to even advance to the super bowl.

I mean you guys havent shown anything that pegs him as anything other then average.

[frozenprince]

The Pat's were carried by the running game and defense, that's a FACT. Dillon and Faulk carried the load, yards are an almost meaningless statistic when you look at the fact that Dillon had 37 TD's in his 3 years as a Pat and was key to them winning those SB's. If you watched the games, you'd know that.

I'm saying that the stats are LYING. You're using bulk stats to claim he's a bad QB, ignoring the fact that since his 2nd year in the league, he's put up very good numbers.

How is this hard to comprehend? Players get better, he's improved significantly since his rookie year. It's a very, very, very simple argument.

Edit:
Anderson feasted on a few bad defenses in 2007, but was remarkably bad the majority of the time. The awe of the longball outshined his inability to throw any pass that required any touch at all.

He was a one-trick pony that got exposed by the end of the year. By the time Cincinnati face him for the second time in week 16, they had the book on him and intercepted him 4 times.

Derek's response to being asked about the 4 picks was, "At least it wasn't five".

That attitude and the ability to throw the ball with touch are the answers to the question of why he was a one-year wonder.

Edit2:

Joe Flaccos current active #'s.

TD's: 15th
Completions: 15th
Attempts: 15th
Yards: 15th
Sacked: 15th
INT's: 21st (the higher the better)
YPA: 13th
INT %: 3rd, 4th all time.

Oh, and my personal favorite.

Passer rating: 10th.

Huh, it's like he's a top 15 QB, just like I said.

[Fluttershy]

The Pat's were carried by the running game and defense, that's a FACT. Dillon and Faulk carried the load, yards are an almost meaningless statistic when you look at the fact that Dillon had 37 TD's in his 3 years as a Pat and was key to them winning those SB's. If you watched the games, you'd know that.

I'm saying that the stats are LYING. You're using bulk stats to claim he's a bad QB, ignoring the fact that since his 2nd year in the league, he's put up very good numbers.

How is this hard to comprehend? Players get better, he's improved significantly since his rookie year. It's a very, very, very simple argument.

Edit:
Anderson feasted on a few bad defenses in 2007, but was remarkably bad the majority of the time. The awe of the longball outshined his inability to throw any pass that required any touch at all.

He was a one-trick pony that got exposed by the end of the year. By the time Cincinnati face him for the second time in week 16, they had the book on him and intercepted him 4 times.

Derek's response to being asked about the 4 picks was, "At least it wasn't five".

That attitude and the ability to throw the ball with touch are the answers to the question of why he was a one-year wonder.

I dont see how this Anderson thing supports your argument at all... he had an 82 passer rating in 07... that kind of backs up the assesment that hee wasnt that good...

as for Flacco... he HASNT improved significantly though... hes been pretty much the same guy every year.

look at 09 Flacco and then look at 2012 Flacco number, he is pretty much the same... look at his career numbers for crying out loud, hes been average year in year out with 2010 being the 1 year he cracked the top 10.

Hes shown no consistent improvement.


THe problem of cherry picking a handful of recent games and calling flacco "but since 2010 he's been a GREAT playoff QB." Is that its not indicative of his actual skill level.

AS I said Before, Mark Sanchez had a great stretch of playoff football... pretty much the same length as Flaccos success, Does that Make SAnchez a "GREAT" QB? no hes a bad QB who had a nice couple of games, thats the story with Flacco (except being far superior to the Sanchize). Flacco is a very average QB who had a nice couple of playoff games.

doesent make him any better then average though.

[Fluttershy]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...g/seasontype/2

hes 12th in passer rating. Hes around 15th in most categories...

I'm floored, how can you not understand that being in the "MIDDLE" of most categories means hes AVERAGE. You just confirmed my argument, by posting that you admit hes pretty much middle of the pack in everything,


"Huh, it's like he's a top 15 QB, just like I said."

in a league of 32 starting QBs, being around the middle is average...

[jukeness]

How about name every quarterback right now better than him. I would put Flacco at 11th, which to me is good, which is what I think fo him: A good quarterback.

[frozenprince]

I'd agree on 11-12th, he's in that bottom half of the top tier, good and occasionally great, but not consistent enough in the regular season.

[Soviet]

And you'd agree that it doesn't really matter considering he's made the AFCG 3 times in 5 years?