General Discussion, Announcements

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

@quenya

Forgive my ignorance if I am wrong, but I did not believe heros were a separate faction.

[Mjolnr839]

I believe its a place holder for the Heros names so that here are not 10+ Zelda's running around.

@Quenya

I now love you too for that list.

[VGF254]

do they start on turn one?

[UndyingNephalim]

do they start on turn one?

Yes the River Zora start on turn one.

[nintendo64isking]

the rito are also a faction pretty much confirmed so is there still one slot leftover after that?

[SNKcell]

Is this mod, mod foldered?!

[Eldren]

even if the available faction slots are 0. we can still have the Kingdom of the Golden Land in the Kingdom of Hyrule unit roster. and only have them available in an event or era. for example. Early/high/late/fallen. Fallen= after the rebellion was victorious, no Kingdom of Hyrule units. just Kingdom of the Golden Land units available.


so there is Hope for all the factions. that may not bin in yet.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

isn't there only one left?

there are:

1) Hylians
2) Gerudo
3) Gorons
4) Zora
5) Kokiri
6) Gohma
7) Lanayru
8) Ordona
9) Deku
10) Moblins
11) Sheikah
12) Stalfos
13) Lizalfos
14) Darknuts
15) Labrynna
16) Fairies
17) Zola
18) Wizzrobe
19) Twili
20) Ikana
21) Oocca
22) Majora
23) Subrosia
24) Huskus
25) Tokay
26) Horon
27) Zuna

add two,

28) Rebels
29) heros

and that leaves......two slots left? how did that happen? Well, I'm not complaining.

There are 31 slots, not 30

[quenya]

oops. my bad.

why 31? why not just thirty? (don't get me wrong, having another one is fine by me.)

[The Holy Pilgrim]

I think that you were thinking of "30 playable factions" when you thought about the faction limit.

It's 30 playable factions + 1 rebel faction making for 31 faction slots in all.

[quenya]

Ah, I see.

[Duke Serkol]

quenya, one of the remaining faction slots is already reserved for the secondary campaign.
The other is, of course, the remaining mystery faction.

[quenya]

Ooh, the Link campaign. So this other faction will be like the fellowship faction in TATW?

As for the other mystery faction, what will it be? has Neph said anything to you?

[Duke Serkol]

If he did, obviously I would not be allowed to tell

[Mjolnr839]

If he did, obviously I would not be allowed to tell

We have ways of making you talk Mr. Bond.

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

If it is Rito, we pretty much guessed. If not, I don't wanna know. Would not want the surprise ruined.

[Ethereal Lancer 916]

Is this mod, mod foldered?!

Yes it is. It should not conflict with any other mods or anything.

[UndyingNephalim]

Some time ago I was able to push outside of the box and find a way for a faction to break the standard Medieval 2 mold when it comes to how they play in a campaign. The River Zoras demonstrated that it was possible to recruit units in a never before done way, and with that I began investigating other possibilities. With that said, we can expect other factions like the Stalfos of Twili to similarly break out of the framework. So what do I have planed for them?

************** River Zora *************

The River Zora's gameplay style has already been brought up in a previous announcement. While their gameplay is still the same, some small but notable changes have occurred since that article. Notably, the River Zora cannot pick and choose what units they summon, though they can influence what will show up at their doorsteps based on certain conditions. Instead the River Zora will have a generalized "Summon Reinforcements" ability in each city they capture after they establish a Supply Line to a nearby river.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Establish a Supply Line.



Summon some River Zoras



The units you summoned will appear at the nearest river

Depending on factors such as City size, buildings that exist in the city, and the climate of a region, the units that the various River Zora organizations lend you can be different. Here is a list of what you can expect:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Village/ Town (Total 2):

1 - 2 Manhunters
1 - 2 Raiders
1 Cannibal (Desert Region required)

Large Town (Total 3):

1 - 2 Manhunters
1 - 2 Raiders
1 - 2 Outrunners
1 Cannibal (Desert Region required)
1 Swampmen (Swamp Region required)

City (Total 4):

1 - 2 Manhunters
1 - 2 Raiders
1 - 2 Outrunners
1 - 2 Geozards
1 Cannibal (Desert Region required)
1 Swampmen (Swamp Region required)
1 Cueball Dragoon (Nearby Lake required)

Large City (Total 5):

1 - 2 Manhunters
1 - 2 Raiders
1 - 2 Outrunners
1 - 2 Geozards
1 - 2 Cyclops Ku
1 Cannibal (Desert Region required)
1 Swampmen (Swamp Region required)
1 Cueball Dragoon (Nearby Lake required)
1 Catapult (Siege Works required)

Huge City (Total 5):

1 - 2 Manhunters
1 - 2 Raiders
1 - 2 Outrunners
1 - 2 Geozards
1 - 2 Cyclops Ku
1 River Knights
1 Cannibal (Desert Region required)
1 Swampmen (Swamp Region required)
1 Cueball Dragoon (Animal Ranch required)
1 Catapult (Siege Works required)

Any and every city can call for reinforcements, but keep in mind that they will spawn at the nearest river. As such, cities really far away from rivers might not have great tactical advantage, unless the river in question they arrive from is near a territory you want to invade. This makes capturing cities in the Gerudo Desert ideal for launching a full scale invasion on the cities in Hyrule Field, since the only river in the entire desert is along the eastern border.

************* Stalfos ***********

The Stalfos are one of the other factions that play differently from the standard empire builders. Much like the River Zora, the Stalfos are not too keen on building their own cities: rather they capture and convert their targets for their own use. This focus on conversion is most evident in the way the Stalfos create new units: They raise the corpses of enemies they defeated in battle.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Stalfos engage the Gerudo in battle



The Stalfos defeat the Gerudo, leaving behind a batch of fresh corpses



Lord Akazoo raises the Gerudo from the dead... now undead Gerudo are added to his forces.

Raising the dead is not an easy and simple process, and this can only be done if Lord Akazoo or a powerful Grand Reaper (the Stalfos equivalent to a General) is leading an army against an enemy force. Since it requires a great deal of power for a General to command large numbers, a full stack army also cannot raise additional undead. If you are victorious against a foe and your General has free stacks available, a portion of their fallen soldiers will be reanimated as a Stalfos unit. The unit depends on the race you just defeated in battle. Here's a list of what units you can raise depending on who was on the receiving end of your scythes:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hylian - Stalfos Eurdi
Gerudo - Stalfos Gerudo
Gorons - Deadrocks
Zora - Stalfos Zarko
Kokiri - Fallen Skull Kids
Gohma - None
Ordona Province - Staltroops
Lanayru Province - Stalfos Zarko
Deku Tribes - None
Moblins - Parutamu
Darknuts - Dark Stalfos
Lizalfos - Stalfos Lizal
Labrynna - Staltroops
Fairies - Bubbles
Sheikah - ReDeads
Ikana - None
Twili - None
Wizzrobes - Death Mages
River Zora - Stalfos Zarko

There will also be additional Stalfos unit types that you can obtain under certain conditions, such as Stalkin, Stalhounds, and Stalmasters. But more on those later.

**************Ikana, Twili, and the Others?*************

These two factions are working and functional at the moment, and will both be playable in the Freeform campaign when the next patch is ready. So then what about the other remaining factions such as Ikana? How will they play differently?

I've honestly not decided yet, though I am more then willing to listen to suggestions. I encourage really thinking outside the box. If an idea sounds crazy and impossible, suggest it anyway. A month ago recruiting units by raising the dead would have probably have been considered impossible in Medieval 2, but it works now.

These are some general ideas of how I'd want the remaining factions to play as:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ikana - Something that involves already having fully built cities when they start and opening fissures in the earth to bring forth their soldiers.

Twili - Since changing climate is proven impossible during a campaign, my idea of the Twili converting the regions they take over into the Twili Realm has pretty much been thrown out the window. I'm really not sure what to do with these guys.

Wizzrobe - Something similar to the Stalfos in that they convert their new members, though they don't do it by slaughtering them.

Sheikah - Not sure what to do with them either. Something that involves only needing a small amount of cities and infiltrating everyone else.

[Duke Serkol]

The River Zoras demonstrated that it was possible to recruit units in a never before done way, and with that I began investigating other possibilities. With that said, we can expect other factions like the Stalfos of Twili to similarly break out of the framework. So what do I have planed for them?

This is the most awesome thing in the history of ever. Especially the Stalfos literally raising the dead.
If there were any doubts left about the incomparable greatness of this mod, they must have been dispelled now.

Question though:

Notably, the River Zora cannot pick and choose what units they summon

Was this done intentionally to make them more diverse from other factions, or was this a limitation imposed by their other differencies?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Stalfos defeat the Gerudo, leaving behind a batch of fresh corpses



Lord Akazoo raises the Gerudo from the dead... now undead Gerudo are added to his forces.

Wait, what just happened there?
49 men lost by the Gerudo... 203 new stalfos? Wha...

Raising the dead is not an easy and simple process, and this can only be done if Lord Akazoo or a powerful Grand Reaper (the Stalfos equivalent to a General) is leading an army against an enemy force. Since it requires a great deal of power for a General to command large numbers, a full stack army also cannot raise additional undead.

Makes sense, yes

Gorons - Deadrocks
Wizzrobes - Death Mages

Yaaaah!

Wouldn't StalRobes be a better name though?

Ordona Province - Staltroops
Labrynna - Staltroops

Hold on, these guys, with these shields

found in Arbiter's Ground, as Ordonians and Labrynnians?

Given the location and the three eyelashes eye on the shield I always assumed they were either Sheikah or the Twili's Ancestors (or both, ya know)

Darknuts - Dark Stalfos

Th Dark Stalfos is actually an existing enemy in Four Swords Adventure. They are stalfos that dwell in the Dark World yet have the ability to project their shadows in the light world and harm the people there.

Maybe we could call undead Darknuts something different? Like Deadnuts? Or Stalnuts?

Or perhaps the Hylian Stalfos could be renamed to be the generic Stalfos while the Darknut ones would be the Stalfos Knights (known as Stalfon in Japan)

Fairies - Bubbles

Mh, I take it you will give them very little skulls then?

Twili - None

Uh? Why not? I get the others (Gohma, Deku and Ikana) but not this one.

These two factions are working and functional at the moment, and will both be playable in the Freeform campaign when the next patch is ready.

The next PATCH? They won't even require a full new version? Wow!

Ikana - Something that involves already having fully built cities when they start and opening fissures in the earth to bring forth their soldiers.

Twili - Since changing climate is proven impossible during a campaign, my idea of the Twili converting the regions they take over into the Twili Realm has pretty much been thrown out the window. I'm really not sure what to do with these guys.

Crap, that really sucks about the climate change. Ah well.

Personally, I would like the Twili and Ikana to play similarly. They are both invaders from another dimension after all (I mean, sure, in your lore the Ikana come with a few of their cities... but that's that. They are still an invading undead horde starting out with a few cities of their own).
So maybe they would set up portals to their home dimensions from which to summon troops?

Wizzrobe - Something similar to the Stalfos in that they convert their new members, though they don't do it by slaughtering them.

Mh, I don't know... I can't really picture Goron Wizzrobes and Lizal Wizzrobes, just to name two.
Maybe a mixed system? They can recruit from a few other factions but can also fall back on (a nerfed version of) the regular recruitment system?

Sheikah - Not sure what to do with them either. Something that involves only needing a small amount of cities and infiltrating everyone else.

Yeah... I got nothing either (not right now, anyway).

[Mjolnr839]

Random idea.

Is it possible for the Sheikah to recruit units from Hylian cities? Maybe they depend entirely on Hyrules cities at first, until they take over their own?

Or is that both impossible and idiotic?