Campaign Map Research: The Holy Roman Empire

[Landil]

In a few weeks from now, I will be starting a thorough study of the Holy Roman Empire to find and correct any inconsistencies, to add as much historical content to its cities and castles as possible, and to represent its geographical, demographical and economical structure as realistically as I can.

I would like to ask all of you to participate in this huge project, to provide me with material on various subjects so that I don't have to search for it myself and so reduce the tediousness of the project for me and increasing (hopefully) the fun for you.

Now here are some guidelines:

• A summary of your own research is preferred over just giving me links, though any links to articles are also welcome.
• When you post your research, please give me the links to the sources you used as well. I cannot use research lacking references, as I need to check its validity!
• I would prefer if you kept your linked sources to the English, German and Dutch languages, as I can read those.
• If you have good sources in other languages that are native you, a PM with a full translation into English would be most welcome!

• The priority for this project is information on cities and castles.
• Please note that the older the settlement, the more likely it is to be added. A settlement that had already existed for a long time by our starting date of 1080 AD is much better than a city that was founded in the 14th century, even though that is still within the period covered by DotS.
• Similarly, the larger and/or more important the settlement, the better. We have limited amount of space on the map, so don't bother giving me information on every little village that existed.
• The best information you can give is obviously a summary of the settlement's history in the period of 1080-1453 AD and also the Middle Ages prior to 1080.
• Some figures that are of great use to me: exact coordinates of the medieval location (some places have moved from their medieval location, always check if this is the case), settlement's foundation date, when the settlement received certain rights (city rights, joined the Hanseatic league, became a bishopric, became a county's capital, etc.).
• Others things I'm interested in: the presence of ethnic/religious minorities (Jews, pagans, etc.), economical activities (trade, agricultural and artisanal production, etc.), political affiliations (to what county/bishopric/etc. does it belong? was it rebellious?), heraldry of the city/castle and/or its direct lord (a picture or a link to a picture).

• Any information on geographical features that were different from what they are now (the old courses of rivers and such). Detailed maps are of great use here.
• Any information on the economical facilities of a region, such as fertility (arable land and such), industrial works such as mines and quarries, and artisanal produce like glass, timber, and weapons. Please specify how important the production was in comparison to other products of the region and to the production of other regions.

Please try not to deviate from these guidelines, as almost all content that does not fit into these parameters will be useless to me, and as such a waste of your time. If you're not certain you're doing it right, feel free to ask me for help either in this thread or in a PM!

Now, if you don't know where to start, you might want to check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_Roman_Empire. Here you can find an almost complete overview of all divisions of the Holy Roman Empire and as such a lot of stuff you can research. Of course, try to use more sources than just Wikipedia, but its always a good place to start.

Also, please post your research on this subject in this thread, do not make your own threads about it. I want to keep this as organised as possible, so please adhere to this rule, and please keep your posts neat and mature. Thank you!

Lastly, I want to wish everyone good luck on their research, your contributions mean a lot to us! And remember: anything is useful, no matter how little it is!

Cheers,

Landil, Head of Research and Historical Settlements Project Leader for Dominion of the Sword

[Rinan]

Just curious: How would one start to work on this research? Just pick a random area in the HRE and start research? People might start researching the same area as another

[Landil]

Yes, just pick whatever subject you like and start researching. Also, even if it occurs that you research exactly the same subject as someone else (which is quite unlikely), it doesn't matter because everyone does research differently, so the results two people have on the same subject can (and usually will) be very different.

[TMoneytron]

Well, from what I've found, there seems to be a wealth of maps on this on the German wikipedia, luckily I speak German lol, so it's not too hard to find:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Reich_1000.PNG
Under this map:
Grafschaft: county
Herzogtum: Dukedom
KGR: Königreich: Kingdom
Markgrafschaft: Margravate
Provinz: Province

It is pretty hard to tell where the settlements are, however.

These appear to be territories:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategor...6mischen_Reich

I'll see if I can work on finding out more about individual / important ones.

[Landil]

Great stuff mate! As said in the original post, I don't mind if you give me German sources, I can read German well enough myself

As for the Grafschaft, Herzogtum and other such titles: those have already been added, and not in modern German but in Middle High or Low (depending on the region) German, as was used throughout the Middle Ages. So expect to see things like Herzogentuom (High German) or Hartægedæm (Low German) in the game

[Bogenschütze]

Hi Landil
Im new on here but one reason I created an account was that I hope to help you with this research I just have a question, could you maybe post a list of castles, towns, etc, that you would like information on? It gives a good starting point I think.
Thanks!

[Landil]

You do know that such a thing would require me to provide you with over a thousand places right?

However, I can give you a list of the most important catagories to look for, which would be:

- Imperial Cities (places with city rights)
- County seats (castles and towns where counts ruled from)
- Bishoprics (places with a cathedral)

All these types of places can be found in the List of States of the Holy Roman Empire to which there is a link in the original post.

However, you should feel free to provide me with places outside of these catagories as well, provided that you can convince me that these places were important enough in the Middle Ages to perhaps be added to the mod

[Bogenschütze]

haha oh right, well cool thanks ill use that as a guide

Oh of course, if theres something outside the catagories that looks good ill be sure to argue for it

thank you!

[JoeCool_1952]

Will Rothenburg (ob der Tauber) be included in DoTS?

(Note: I'm not very familiar with MHD, so I'll have to use the modern names for now.)

History:
First settled in 950-970 under the Counts of Rothenburg-Komburg, the town of Rothenburg ob der Tauber was first fotified with the Rothenburg castle in 1070.
When the Counts of Rothenburg-Komburg died out in 1116, Emperor Heinrich V granted their lands to Konrad von Hohenstaufen, the newly appointed Duke of Franconia.
Rothenburg was first mentioned as a town in 1142 (I'm not exactly sure of the governmental system Konrad III installed at this time; would the term be "Hogrefe"?
In 1170, Rothenburg became a city proper with the construction of Staufer Castle. The city walls had expanded to their current locations by 1274.
It received the privileges of Reichsstadt in 1274 from Rudolph I in 1274, and those of Freie Reichsstadt in 1352 under Charles IV. Although already of political importance, after it achieved Freie Reichsstadt status Rothenburg began to experience significant economic growth.
From 1300-1400, additions to the city walls were limited to the construction of additional turrets along the wall and bastions near the sally points.
Rothenburg experienced a bit of a golden age in the late 14th century, becoming arguably the most powerful Imperial city in Franconia under Burgomaster Heinrich Topller (1377-1408). Also, in 1378, Rothenburg joined the Swabian league of cities (note: this is not the same thing as the later Swabian League.)
As for later history, it sided with the protestants in the Thirty-Years'-War and after a bout with the plague it declined rather sharply in importance - the old city is still rather remarkably well preserved today. Another interesting point, Rothenburg was able to keep its free status all the way until the mediatisation of 1803.

useful data:
St. James Church is/was, for all practical purposes, the center of the city (coordinates: 49,22,39.98 , 10,10,40.47)
If you trust Wikipedia, under Heinrich Topller, it had about 5,500 inhabitants + 14,000 living in the nearly 400km^2 region it controlled.
As for religion, I think it was mostly Catholic and Jewish (well, until the Reformation). Meir of Rothenburg was a Jewish Rabbi famous throughout Europe as a jurist (I think he might also be in the ancillary list for DoTS.) And for Catholics, Rothenburg was part of the Heilig Blut pilgrimage.
Heraldry is here - should at least be valid for after 1260.
The city was built on a bit of a plateau next to the Tauber river, and I haven't been able to find any evidence that the river has moved significantly since 1142.
I don't know of any artisanal produce the town if famous for, but Middle Franconia has decent farmland.

Although most of this info is just from Wikipedia articles (English and German), I also used the tourist website and some paper based literature produced by the town itself.

I'm asking about the inclusion of Rothenburg for two reasons. First, I know someone brought back a map and a lot of pictures from their vacation, so I would like to try making a custom map of Rothenburg for the Historical Settlements Project. And secondly, it brings up the issue of Free Cities - how are they handled in DoTS? Please tell me DoTS at least recognizes Imperial immediacy!
I've modded a few games in my time, but never actually any from the total war series. Would it be possible to make free cities provide less income, and they can't have a designated governer - but when you declare war / are invaded they provide a sum of money and some troops?

I was thinking of using the 1170 walls (Staufer Castle) for the custom battlemap, as they seemed to be a good compromise in terms of both size and fitting within the timeline.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

images from http://www.rothenburg-tourist.com/en/history.htm
970
1170
1274
I'm assuming there should be only one custom map to cover the entire DoTS timeline.

Please let me know if Rothenburg will be included in the mod, and if this is the kind of research you are looking for.
Thanks,
JoeCool

[Landil]

Rothenburg is already in the mod, but don't worry, your research can and will still be put to good use

As for your style of research: it's pretty much perfect! You provide me with a lot of information in a small amount of text, and provided me with things that are truly useful.

I'm not an expert on the mod's mechanics, so I can't give you much information, but as far as I know we have special scripted events and such that will to a certain degree simulate things like Imperial immediacy. These special features have been included for all factions, so expect playing the HRE (or any other faction) to be an unique experience.

All in all, good job mate! Keep up the good work

[lolIsuck]

Do you have a list of cities already included? Not PSF's but the cities. Also, do you want info on the cities and the PSF's?

[Landil]

This is a list of the regions that the HRE either controls or of which the HRE controls the majority of the PSFs:

Aix-en-Provence (Provence)
Augsburg (Swabia)
Basel (Upper Burgundy)
Bremen (Saxony)
Cologne (Lower Lorraine)
Erfurt (Thuringia)
Lübeck (Polabia)
Lyon (Lower Burgundy)
Magdeburg (Nordmark)
Ravenna (Romagna)
Regensburg (Bavaria)
Trier (Upper Lorraine)
Turin (Piedmont)
Utrecht (Frisia)
Verona (Veneto)
Vienna (Austria)
Worms (Franconia)

I mostly need information on the PSFs though. The regions have been pretty much finished, though there is the region of Franconia that still needs fixing. Currently, we have set the capital of Franconia to be Worms, however, while it was certainly the capital region of the Emperor, there was no fixed capital city. If you can help me out by providing me with candidates (like Frankfurt, Mainz and Worms) and arguments for or against those candidates that would be most helpful.

[lolIsuck]

I don't understand why Aachen isn't in, it was the city where most German kings were crowned and a fairly important city in the Empire. I guess it's because of it's proximity to Cologne.

City: Aachen
Founded: 1st century Roman settlement as Aquis Granni, first mentioned as Aquis villa in 765.
History&importance: Old capital of the Frankish Empire, in it's cathedral most of the kings of Germany (most of them later becoming HRE) were crowned. It has a rather favourable location between the Rheinland and Flanders which encourages trade. It became a freistadt in 1166 and constuction of the first city wall started in 1171.
Region: Lower Lorraine
Economy: Wool trade apparently.

City: Maastricht, medieval name either Mosae Trajectum or Masetrieth (first mentioned in 1051)
Founded: 1st century, Roman settlement.
History&Importance: The city had a diocese from 384 until 722 when it was moved to Liege. It is one of the main crossing points of the Meuse river, the Via Belgica, an old Roman road going from Boulogne sur Mer to Cologne crossed the river here. The city got city rights in 1204 and a stone city wall was constructed around 1230, replacing the old dirt wall.
Region: Lower Lorraine
Economy: Tanning, Broadcloth production.

The area both cities are in are very fertile löss grounds, it's also a hilly and forested area with loads of small streams so presumably a great hunting area too. I will post some more cities soon.

[Landil]

Aachen lost importance from the 10th century onwards when most of the Imperial functionalities moved to the Middle Rhine area in Franconia. The only Imperial function that it retained was the coronation, which was a mostly symbolic affair, less important than the election, which was held in Franconia. Though it was no doubt a city of considerable size, its political and economical power were only modest. It was Cologne that was by far the most important city in Lower Lorraine, being the largest city of the HRE and the second largest city in Western Europe in 1080 (after London), a centre for merchants and artisans, as well as the seat of one the most powerful prince-archbishops of the HRE (and later also one of the three ecclesiastical electors).

[Święty]

Though if you plan to make crown-ancillary it should be given to a king after he visits Aachen

[TheSilverBranch]

Just two questions concerning your region "Franconia":

1. As fas as I know, there has never been a german city called "Wörms". If you mean "Worms", this still wouldn't fit as a capital for a region called "Franconia", as it's located in modern-day Rhineland-Palatinate.

2. Why don't you include the city of Nuremberg? It's actually located in Franconia and was one of the most important german cities during the high middle ages.

[Landil]

1. Oh no, a simple misspelling! I'm only human mate Also, you're wrong, even Wikipedia, which is often wrong, is right when it states that in the Middle Ages "The historic duchy of Franconia extended further west to Speyer, Mainz, and Worms (west of the Rhine) than modern day Franconia". In fact, that area along the Rhine was politically more important than Bavarian Franconia around Nuremberg until the 16th century.

2. Which brings us to why Nuremberg is not a provincial capital: because we choose for our provinces the settlement that was the most important at the start of our timeline (1080 AD) and preferably stayed so for its entire span (up to 1453 AD). For Franconia this was for the entire timeline NOT Nuremberg, which only started gaining political importance in the 14th century (the first time Nuremberg was the location of the Reichstag was in 1356 AD). But as said before, it wasn't until the 16th century that there was a true power shift from the Rhineland area to Bavaria. This is beyond our timeline, and as such Nuremberg is not the best candidate for being the provincial capital of Franconia in DotS.

[TheSilverBranch]

Well, I have to apologize; some minutes after I had written my answers, I discovered the article on Wikipedia about the duchy of Franconia. But according to Wikipedia, this duchy was never really important. So the name would fit for the first decades of your mod, but afterwards, it would sound anachronistic. Is there no other way the respective area could be named? Palatinate would probably historical incorrect, or am I wrong? Baden would fit very very roughly... and would also be historical incorrect.

[Landil]

Yes, the Duchy of Franconia might not have been important for very long after 1080 AD, as with many other duchies of the HRE, which had the tendency to fracture into many competing counties (Franconia, Lotharingia and Saxony are prime examples). However, we do not base our region strictly on military or political borders, like the borders between duchies. We often take into account cultural, ethnical and linguistic borders as well. We look to what regions truly formed a culturally and politically cohesive whole, regions that truly had their own identity and did not just form part of a larger region. Franconia is such a region, having its own politics (notably the conflict between the duke, the counts and the emperor over who could control what, as imperial holdings were extensive here), its own German subculture (most importantly, being the main region of imperial residence, courtly culture developed here more than in most other regions of the empire), as well as its own dialect of High German (which formed the role model for other German speaking areas). The fact that the name Franconia survives to this day is also important, as it shows that, even though it had little power as a title, it was still often used to describe a certain overarching region.

In the end, there is no better way to describe the regions of Franconia and Lotharingia (because the same arguments can be levelled against that region) than simply with those names, even though both had fractured into dozens of smaller demesnes by the 13th century. The only way to correctly represent these regions would be if we would divide them into every single important duchy/county/bishopric they contained, which we can't because of the limitations of the engine.

[jazstl]

Tell me if you still need info on modern day slovenia(Carinthia, Carniola, Gorizia, Istria, Trieste, Styer)

Would gladly help...