CANCELLED

[Biggus Splenus]

CANCELLED

[Lokgar]

Quick question, so will there be hardly any units using Katanas to attack? I was experimenting with some animations tables earlier for horsemen. Got them to use Yaris vs other horses / on the charge and then switch to katana for fighting vs foot troops. Weren't any bugs so far as I could tell, although it took quite a bit of time to fix it so the animations weren't all buggy :p

[Biggus Splenus]

First poster

Well, all units will have a katana or some type of short sword as a side arm.

As for the Horse Charge; I think I will leave it to the Yari for most occasions. Think about it. It would be much easier to kill your enemies on horseback with a long yari, rather than a short katana. But if someone who knows FOR SURE about this, please speak up

[katsusand]

Why would you remove the Ninjas? They were used in battles several times in the Sengoku era.

[Biggus Splenus]

Why would you remove the Ninjas? They were used in battles several times in the Sengoku era.

I did not know that, would you be able to give me an example, or several?

[Biggus Splenus]

After katsusand showed me some evidence of the kisho ninjas being used in armies, I have decided to include them into the roster

[Moonhoplite]

With the ashigrau "evolution".

Isn't that the same as when you progress in game, you have higher levels of castles, thus more experience for ahisgaru, and more experienced ashigaru inherently from battles.

Etc. Lower level ashigaru = levy quality, Higher level ashigaru = "proffesional".

I don't see how you can do a fluid reform, unless you decide to disband all of the older ashigrau "levy" when the "technology" for "professional" ashigaru come, with your proposal.

It would save you some time

[Biggus Splenus]

No, I definitely want there to be 2 seperate units for Ashigaru (one Levy, another are the Late Professionals), so that I can properly show it, and to show a definite split in the two styles.

The early levy Ashigaru were just conscripted farmers, owned little to no armor and was only paid with the loot they acquired on campaign. Where as the late professional Ashigaru were actual payed soldiers, fully suited in armor.

So, the late ones will have a higher higher upkeep but a much, much greater recruitment cost (imagine how much more expensive it would be to raise, train, drill and equip professional soldiers, as opposed to just levy some farmers).

The professional Ashigaru will also yield a wider variety of abilities, due to their extensive drilling and training compared to the early ones.

----------------------------------------------

There will also be only a single military building tree (apart from another for Monks, and another for Shinobi), and the names are as followed:

LEVEL 1: Feudatory Conscription Grounds, Training Grounds and Private Stables
Here is the first stage that will be in every region from the start of the game. It represents an individual area for each of your Feudal Clients (ie. Samurai) for them to muster and quickly train their conscripts. This is a lot more disorganized then the proceeding Provincial Conscription Center. This Level 1 military building also has Private Stables, which do not let you recruit any cavalry, but it represents a stable for each of the samurai, which is only just enough war horses to form your bodyguard units.
LEVEL 2: Provincial Conscription Centre, Training Facilities and Castle Stables
This, as show above, shows an organisational improvement, so that all your levies from the province are conscripted and trained in the same area, which makes it cheaper and faster to mobilize your troops. The introduction of proper training facilities is also introduced, as opposed to the previous training grounds. Level 2 military building also has a castle stable, which has enough war horses to field an additional 1 or 2 samurai cavalry units.
LEVEL 3: Castle Barracks, Provincial-Run Armouries and Weapon Smiths, Professional Training and Drilling Facilities
Here is the first step into professional Ashigaru forces. We see the introduction of a barracks, and Province-Ran Armouries and Weapon Smiths to mass-produce the armour and weapons for your ashigaru. We also have the introduction of the Professional Training and Drilling facilities, which is required to train your new professional troops properly and give them the discipline they need.
LEVEL 4: Extended Barracks, Armouries and Weapon Smiths, Advanced Training and Drilling Facilities
Here is the final stage in the military building chain. We are given extended barracks, armouries and weapon smiths to field additional ashigaru from the province (if you can afford it if course). And the introduction of advanced training and drilling facilities, to give your ashigaru that extra boost towards professionalism.

Technology will be required for every upgrade.

If you have played the EB mod before, you might be able to tell that I have been greatly influenced by their military building chain, and I think it work great.

I hope anyone that visits this thread will enjoy reading this.

[Moonhoplite]

It's unfair for the "early" ashigaru who have worked their way up with experience/combat/training after conscription (which Im sure happened a lot) and not be able to do the abilities or have the same pay as "professional ashigaru"

Does the CAI transition/evolve army preference through time periods (eg, early to late)? You wouldn't be able to cancel out the AI making early/levy ashigaru in late period campaign if it wasn't, and you'll surely see lots of "levies" from players and AI in late game (that would be inaccurate).

The unit retrain system RTW or MTW2 would have been great, as I believe it allowed fluid transition of era units for the player and AI. Does it exist in warscape engine/Shogun 2?

Just curious about modding, is adding abilites + upkeep modifiers as part of experience bonus?

Im really interested in your roster of units, eg. no katana units, so good luck.

[Biggus Splenus]

It's unfair for the "early" ashigaru who have worked their way up with experience/combat/training after conscription (which Im sure happened a lot) and not be able to do the abilities or have the same pay as "professional ashigaru"

The evolution of Ashigaru from levy to professionals was definitely a gradual process, and this was adopted by different clans at different times. In some clans, this new professional ashigaru raised them to social status equal of samurai, which will be possible through tech (will not make samurai happy).

Anyway, I do want the player to disband his old new units to make way for the new ones. This probably will also be a gradual process that should be made during peace. Historically, levy armies were disbanded after the campaigning season (after the harvest, before the winter), so having to disband your old levy for the professional makes sense, because they should be disbanded after every winter. I'm also looking for a way (via scripting) to increase a levy armies upkeep dramatically after they have been in enemy lands for a harvest season, to represent the effect of the levy leaving their farms unattended.

Does the CAI transition/evolve army preference through time periods (eg, early to late)? You wouldn't be able to cancel out the AI making early/levy ashigaru in late period campaign if it wasn't, and you'll surely see lots of "levies" from players and AI in late game (that would be inaccurate).

The AI will also have to go through these techs to recruit the professional ashigaru, and once the professionals are available the levy will not be.

The unit retrain system RTW or MTW2 would have been great, as I believe it allowed fluid transition of era units for the player and AI. Does it exist in warscape engine/Shogun 2?

No, I'm afraid it does not.

Just curious about modding, is adding abilites + upkeep modifiers as part of experience bonus?

Also a no

[other mitch]

If I may ask, which campaign map are you using for this mod?

[Biggus Splenus]

This mod will primarily cover the base Shogun 2 game period.

After that is finished, I will be moving onto Fall of the Samurai.

I don't think I will mod the Rise of the Samurai, because I never really played it. But once this mod comes out, and there is enough demand for a Rise of the Samurai one, I will

[Brutalsubtlety]

Hmm! Looks interesting, good luck.
Some mod name suggestions…
Revamped Unit Tree
Fluffykins
Time That Has Been Frittered Away On Idle Pursuits Like Scrumping For Pears...

[bassguitar2345]

Looks very interesting good luck I'm hoping someone can create battle mechanics where archers aren't superpowerful and the battles last longer so good luck with making realistic battle mechanics I will definitely keep an eye on this

[Kissaki]

After katsusand showed me some evidence of the kisho ninjas being used in armies, I have decided to include them into the roster

I am intrigued -- could you post the evidence publicly? Because when I search for "kisho ninja", all I get is Total War hits.

[Biggus Splenus]

I am intrigued -- could you post the evidence publicly? Because when I search for "kisho ninja", all I get is Total War hits.

That's because a kisho ninja is called a Shinobi. Try googling that instead

[Kissaki]

That's because a kisho ninja is called a Shinobi. Try googling that instead

Ninja in general were called shinobi. And I still haven't found any evidence of their use in battle. Indeed, Turnbull offered the ninja a single line in his book, the Samurai, and that was only to say how little evidence there was to say that ninja even existed in the first place.

[Akaie]

Too bad I have limited skills in the Japanese language. I hate having to cite potentially watered down English based sources. In any case, I've seen the term "kisho" in Joel Levy's "Ninja: The Shadow Warrior".

In some historical sources, the word "ninja" is not used; rather, individuals with ninja qualities are referred to as kancho (spies), teisatsu (scouts), kisho (surprise attackers), or koran (agitators).

If CA were using this book, "kisho" certainly seems like the best choice to define a battle unit.

Though, the idea that they raced onto the battlefield flinging grenades and getting into the thick of battle like they can do in Shogun 2 is a rather blurred issue. There's a similar gripe with there being dedicated samurai units.

[Biggus Splenus]

Sorry to upset anyone that might be interested in this, but I have decided to cancel this project, and focusing my time on finishing school and researching for my Rome 2 mod.