Faction - Forces of Twilight

[VictorAYorke]

I see that Twili can't upgrade cities. This greatly restricts the tech trees of cities you capture. I suppose it makes sense that they aren't good at building in the light world, but they should at least be able to expand their cities in the twilight realm. Else if you don't want hamlet-level cities, you just have to wait for the enemy to build it up before capturing it.

It could be...
a. A bug.
b. A planned gameplay element, so you have to rely on their holdings back in the Realm of Twilight to replenish troops and support military operations (adding to the feel of a 'home' dimension invading Hyrule) instead of inexplicably raising Interlopers out of Hylian populations.

I'm about to check this evening, either way...

[Saria's Vanguard]

Pretty sure it's just a bug, Darknuts can't either

[VictorAYorke]

Aaand it looks like a bug. they can't build farm upgrades either, interestingly, which might be part of the same bug.

[Apani]

Actually, that might be accidentally appropriate: what do you want to farm in the land of depression and despair? I think farms should be omitted from some regions, like Death Mountain, Subrosia and the Blin Homelands.

[Duke Serkol]

So what do you suppose they eat?

[fernavliz]

Maybe their(twili) farming method is incompatible to the hyrule world.
i have another question. Do the twilight people have the technology to build mines in hyrule or it would be a strange environment for them? I ask because they cannot built mines in freeform campaign

[Cameron Shutters]

So what do you suppose they eat?

With the exception of the Gorons here comes the thousand dollar question with Apani's idea. Civilization cannot exist without farming in the context of humans; without farming humans must resort to the hunter-gatherer lifestyle of a nomad and thus have no chance to build armies, cities, or anything else that we see in HTW. I highly doubt the Blins, Subrosians, and Twili could survive without some farming. Also volcanic soil is highly fertile, so Death Mountain should have some wonderful farming ground. As for the Twili; I'm pretty sure they have some manner of farming even if it's some alien crop/livestock. Subrosians may farm something different than typical human crops as well.

Isn't farming an integral part of the economy of every faction too? You could be seriously jeopardizing game balance by taking that away from some factions. In my River Zora game I was in debt by 2000 rupees and it just kept growing, but after building some farms and growing my taxable population I soon found myself with a nice chunk of change.

[Sir Aroun]

With the exception of the Gorons here comes the thousand dollar question with Apani's idea. Civilization cannot exist without farming in the context of humans; without farming humans must resort to the hunter-gatherer lifestyle of a nomad and thus have no chance to build armies, cities, or anything else that we see in HTW. I highly doubt the Blins, Subrosians, and Twili could survive without some farming. Also volcanic soil is highly fertile, so Death Mountain should have some wonderful farming ground. As for the Twili; I'm pretty sure they have some manner of farming even if it's some alien crop/livestock. Subrosians may farm something different than typical human crops as well.

Isn't farming an integral part of the economy of every faction too? You could be seriously jeopardizing game balance by taking that away from some factions. In my River Zora game I was in debt by 2000 rupees and it just kept growing, but after building some farms and growing my taxable population I soon found myself with a nice chunk of change.

Don't leave herding and domestic animals out when considering this question, especially when some race may not be omnivores. For instence (note this is lore wise not game wise) the Twili may eat insects that they raise, the Lizalfos (who may be carnivores) may use a mix of doestic animals and hunting, and we also know that the Blins use to farm before Hylia destroyed their land to the point that (in lore) it is only good for light animal raising (which aided in the down fall of Blin civilization).

[Godot]

If Twili aren't any good at farming in Hyrule, I can't see there's anything stopping them from making slaves do all the work. And I imagine light world food generally tastes better than what they eat in the twilight realm.

[Apani]

For the Twili human food is still alien food, if they are allergic to the environment why not to the food as well.

With the exception of the Gorons here comes the thousand dollar question with Apani's idea. Civilization cannot exist without farming in the context of humans; without farming humans must resort to the hunter-gatherer lifestyle of a nomad and thus have no chance to build armies, cities, or anything else that we see in HTW. I highly doubt the Blins, Subrosians, and Twili could survive without some farming. Also volcanic soil is highly fertile, so Death Mountain should have some wonderful farming ground. As for the Twili; I'm pretty sure they have some manner of farming even if it's some alien crop/livestock. Subrosians may farm something different than typical human crops as well.

Isn't farming an integral part of the economy of every faction too? You could be seriously jeopardizing game balance by taking that away from some factions. In my River Zora game I was in debt by 2000 rupees and it just kept growing, but after building some farms and growing my taxable population I soon found myself with a nice chunk of change.

Nomands can't build armies? What about the Mongols? And the Huns? Northmen in general tended to have little farming and mainly relied on herding and hunting. Another thing that bothers me is that Subrosia and Demise have farming incomes nearly as high as those of normal regions, so to balance things out you'd have to at least block those regions from upgrading crops above level 1. Also, Subrosians might be lithotrophs like the Gorons.

[Cameron Shutters]

Don't leave herding and domestic animals out when considering this question, especially when some race may not be omnivores. For instence (note this is lore wise not game wise) the Twili may eat insects that they raise, the Lizalfos (who may be carnivores) may use a mix of doestic animals and hunting, and we also know that the Blins use to farm before Hylia destroyed their land to the point that (in lore) it is only good for light animal raising (which aided in the down fall of Blin civilization).

You must have misunderstood my post. I was including livestock as farming; which is why I say crops/livestock.

Nomands can't build armies? What about the Mongols? And the Huns?

As I understand from my history books the Mongols survived by raiding farms and demanding regular tribute from farmers to feed themselves. So farming is still necessary even if they aren't the ones doing it. Keep in mind the Mongol Empire was not all people running around on horses killing people too; there were cities and farms and such as well. That's why it was an empire rather than a warband running around making a mess of things. Hell the Mongols even recruited directly from farming communities when they needed a large force to lay siege to a city/castle. The fact that the Mongols often tried to avoid damaging agricultural land further proves my point that they did in fact have some degree of farming in their land.

I can't speak for the Huns as I'm not educated enough on them, but I'm pretty sure if they had any substantial numbers there was farming involved somehow.

The Twili being unable to build farms in Hyrule would make sense, but not in the Twilight Realm.

Subrosians might be lithotrophs like the Gorons.

There's no evidence for that though. I think it's fair to assume that unless stated all races eat food. Otherwise we might as well have the Kokiri eating dirt.

Subrosia and Demise have farming incomes nearly as high as those of normal regions

Restricting how high they can upgrade farms would make more sense than just cutting them off from farming entirely.

[Apani]

The "build farms so that you can raze them every once a while" thing sounds fine to me, and should be very fitting for the Moblins and River Zoras.

The fact is, I don't think first level farms only are not enough yet. You have to feel poor. The Gerudo are dying, the Moblins are dying. That said, we can just cut off farms from definited territories, rather than from defined factions. You really can't build a farm in a desert, underground and with a bunch of rocks; the most believable food source for Subrosian is trade with outsiders, but rare as it is they couldn't feed their whole population.

And I think Twili should get some replacement to farms which increases their crop / growth in their homelands, rather than using traditional farms. Also, we might add Pastures (like the ones which breed chickens and sheep and stuff in TATW, giving a growth bonus) to differentiate from Farms.

[Duke Serkol]

We do know the Subrosians enjoy lava soup.

[Sir Aroun]

The "build farms so that you can raze them every once a while" thing sounds fine to me, and should be very fitting for the Moblins and River Zoras.

The fact is, I don't think first level farms only are not enough yet. You have to feel poor. The Gerudo are dying, the Moblins are dying. That said, we can just cut off farms from definited territories, rather than from defined factions. You really can't build a farm in a desert, underground and with a bunch of rocks; the most believable food source for Subrosian is trade with outsiders, but rare as it is they couldn't feed their whole population.

And I think Twili should get some replacement to farms which increases their crop / growth in their homelands, rather than using traditional farms. Also, we might add Pastures (like the ones which breed chickens and sheep and stuff in TATW, giving a growth bonus) to differentiate from Farms.

Just because the Gerudo are in a desert does not mean they can't made farms, It would just be harder do to limited water. Remember that Gerudo towns are most likely built around wells and naturally Oasis, as well as have the ability to made artificial Oasis. While the Moblin lands are no longer good for farming It seams clear that the Moblins are professional herders and livestock raisers, the Meat Pits and Boar Riders show this. Lastly, as Duke Serkol confirmed Subrosians are in fact a type of lithotrophs.

[Talonis Wolf]

So what the general opinion is that the Twilight Faction should only be allowed to farm in their own realm, or else have their own equivalent to farming. Would that be correct?

[Godot]

I think they at least need more incentive to invest in their twilight realm cities. They give peanuts for income and the mirrors keep bugging out, which makes shipping units into Hyrule an unreliable method after turn 15 or so.

[Cameron Shutters]

The latter half of your statement is irrelevant because it's a bug and the first half I'm not even sure if it's possible for certain factions to be unable to build certain buildings in certain regions.

[Drazule]

The ability to build farms should necessarily reflect the status of the nation. Like moblins should totally start out with poor fertility, but if over the course of the freeform campaign, the Moblin leader decided to improve farming infrastructure, would that not make sense? The whole thing is it's freeform, so if you decided you want to reform your Moblins to focus on agriculture and sustainability, why couldn't it be done? Putting enough resources into the land with irrigation and rotations and such would provided an increase in crop yield.

And until we have a specific source stating that the Twili cannot eat 'hyrule food', then I think we can assume they can. They do descend from Hyrule after all. Troops from low lying areas might have a hard time fighting in high altitudes due to the oxygen in the air, but that doesn't make them unable to eat the berries that might grow that high.

[Apani]

That could be possible, but hard and uneffective, since their main mean of sustainment is pillaging. It's not like they just become vegeterian hippies one casual day.

[Cameron Shutters]

Well that's good because this game takes place over the span of many years, not one day.