Faction - Darknut Legion

[Eldren]

I see. And I agree. It is vary fitting to the Darknut Might.

[Shika_mech]

Just finished a long campaign with the Darknuts, and my feedback amounts to… well… I loved them. And I mean, really. At first, that whole “everybody moving at slug spead and no arrows for you” sounded like those guys would be absolutly impossible to play on a campaign map, but those avian knights running almost as fast as horses really save the day. With them to take care of those annoying archers and siege weaponry, it is perfectly possible to survive long enough to get to close combat in open battles… Well, so long as you are not playing against mounted archers (I learned the hard way that the sanest decision considering gerudos is to make them my allies and let someone else deal with them while I’m conquering Ghoma or the Mobgoblins.)

And in siege situations… Well, they are just perfect. Those guys are first grade fortress busters, and their special ram only makes things better. The only thing that actually killed a whole bunch of them more often than not was boiling oil, so I ended up not using the cool ram against stone walls, preferring siege towers.

The sole thing I found a bit strange is that ability to actually build ruins in cities and castles. It’s easy to exploit to get a nice and healthy relic revenue for the whole game. But I guess that was meant to enhance an otherwise quite poor economy.

Plus, their armors are cool.

How did you finish a game with them? Every time I do a short campaign it crashes on Turn 15


(As for the loyalty issue, I had it a few times. The fun thing being that the one deserting was that god-like faction leader whoes name I forgot. If the leader deserts his own country, does that makes everyone in the country the rebel ones? )

[InferiorBeing]

Except there's Three Goddesses.

And the leader of the most powerful magic user factions (Fairies and Wizzrobes) are both lead by women.

So really it's just the undead that are sexist.

Those jerks.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

You have not understood anything.

Sexism, by its very definition, is when one gender is considered lesser than the other. Not just when it is women that are being considered lesser.

Many of the factions in HTW are matriarchal. In some cases, this means that only females may hold positions of authority. This is deeply, and utterly sexist. In every single, conceivable way.

The fact that you considered a male-dominated faction despicable and sexist, but female-dominated factions completely acceptable, means to me that you need to seriously take a step back and start thinking very critically about your values. (Seriously. Do try thinking, for a bit. You might like it.)

Don't just form values without a single moment of thought behind them. It's incredibly destructive.

[SudoKnight]

Mh, hi first of all.

I must say I've not played the Darknut legion in the campaign, but I have faced them a lot and played them in custom battles.

Honestly to me, they feel a lot like the guys in black in this video:



Really overwhelming and strong. The think is I think the darknuts would do good with something like the black machine in minute 1:00, something that is "kind" of a siege weapon, but that uses a -sword- as main weapon, like a melee siege weapon.

This would not go against their martial code, of only fighting with swords (its weapon would simply be an oversized sword) and it could be employed to crush walls or similar, allowing them to break through fortresses by other means than crushing the door with the ram.

What do you think about it?

That's actually a good comparison, I've actually had similar situations happen when I fight Hyrule. I managed to get the Zuna to join me, so I'm able to bypass the Darknut's lack of range... plus I can now recruit Ziggurats as a mercenary unit. In one of my first battles against Hyrule my Zuna crossbowmen picked away at the charging army while my main line tore through anyone that got close enough: it was really satisfying.

[SudoKnight]

Shoot, I just noticed that I said "actually" twice in the same sentence.... T-T

[nintendo64isking]

ha these guys just got 100 per cent more awesome cant get enough of the doomknockers; fantastic unit!

[Sir Aroun]

ha these guys just got 100 per cent more awesome cant get enough of the doomknockers; fantastic unit!

Video?
I'll just be waiting

[Bloodly]

...These guys suffer a similar problem to the Papal States of normal Med2 with the Papal and Swiss Guard. The new levels of training REPLACE the older ones outright. You get Adepts, you can't get Initiates, nor can you turn the Initiate TO an Adept. This leaves you earlier armies that you can't replenish unless you deliberately hold back a place's military advancement. It seems to go against their 'slow, powerful, keep them alive and upgrade them' mentality. Then again, the recruitment system itself kinda goes against that. Here is a case where general spamming is a very good and powerful thing.

It doesn't help that the Mazrova seem to cause crash-outs, so you REALLY want Initiates as a solid run-around force(The Fokka aren't great in themselves-they can charge in, but getting out again is a problem).

There are religious issues in some of the desert settlements and elsewhere that can't be fixed at present, due to the Darknut religious building being non-buildable.

Still, they're simple and tough and I like that.

The Doomknockers are...they're effective enough melee troops(Though I'm not sure if their swinging mace attack actually DOES anything. Sure, the enemy fall down, but...), but they never get to actually use their javelin attack. The range is short enough that they get pulled into melee really easily. I've also seem them hit themselves(as in other people in the same unit) with the javelins.

It seems odd that the Dishonoured are spears, but anti-cav has to be somewhere. I'm surprised there isn't an anti-armour in there, though. Then again, with base attack power that high, one can legit say 'they don't need the trait'.

[Cielo the Pachirisu]

You can't look me in the eye and tell me that the Dishonored shouldn't get an anti-armor bonus :T

[VictorAYorke]

You can't look me in the eye and tell me that the Dishonored shouldn't get an anti-armor bonus :T

It makes sense logically that they would be anti-armour, however given their armour, basic damage and anti-cavalry status, they would take some serious balancing...

[Eldren]

Now I've heard that Darknuts are good at taking settlements. But are they good at Defending them?

Also what are the major weaknesses of Darknuts?
As far as I know, it's: Grenades, magic, and strong fire attacks.
Am I wrong? And is there more or less?

[Frostwyrmwraith]

They're highly susceptible to attacks from behind. Often, a single cavalry charge can halve or totally wipe out an entire unit, depending on the state it's already in. And if you can avoid their few fast units, they're very easy to soften up with arrows.

[Cielo the Pachirisu]

Basically, they're good with anything involving settlements. Taking or defending walls, it doesn't matter much. So long as the enemy doesn't have room to maneuver around them, they're fine.

I'd say that the weakness of the Darknuts would be open field battles. Anyone who can outmaneuver and sufficiently outshoot them won't have a very difficult time dealing with them. Their Zuna Crossbowmen are average ranged units at best, the Fokka are really only good at archer hunting, and the Mazura are too difficult to get/not available in the main game anymore.

...but yes, bombs, sometimes cavalry, magic. I dunno about Frostwyrm's cavalry assertion, I've seen my 'nutties take head-on Ordonian Goat Lord charges and not flinch.

[Frostwyrmwraith]

I'd imagine it depends on if you're playing them or not. I don't know anything about how MW2 handles the AI, but I know in a lot of games they get buffs or nerfs depending on your difficulty level, so if that's the case and we're playing on different difficulties (I'm on medium), there might be some variance involved. But if you're playing them, and fighting an AI Ordona, then you're not likely to get outmaneuvered so much.

And I think Horsemen are actually more effective, but you need to hit them from behind like I said or you're in for a really bad time. I tried using Goat Lords in one fight and they managed 'only' a one-to-one kill ratio. The sheer numbers of a horsemen unit hitting them from behind is where the real damage is, especially if you can turn around and do it again with another unit while they're turning to fight off the first charge.

[Cielo the Pachirisu]

Oh yeah, but I mean, that's from behind. Any unit is good at killing from behind, especially top-tiers like Goat Lords. I was talking about in head-long fights.

[Frostwyrmwraith]

...I was talking about behind from the start. The point being, the Darknuts are especially weak against attacks from behind because they are so slow and easily outmaneuvered, and cavalry outmaneuvers better than anything. It's extremely easy to surround, isolate, and attack a Darknut unit from behind with cavalry, and the sheer numbers of a horsemen unit wipes them out way faster as a result.

It's...really rather bad tactics to fight a Darknut unit from the front in the first place.

[Cielo the Pachirisu]

If you can help it, you always engage a unit from behind or the flank. That applies to all units, just especially Darknuts. Even then, you do need to have some units engage from the front for hammer and anvil, even if it's a clearly inferior force. Just to tie them up for the cavalry charge.

Anyway. Yeah, those are the Darknuts' weaknesses.

[Eldren]

So then. Should the Darknuts do the Roman thing when on long marches/Army campaigns? Like when their movement turn is ended, build a fort for that army. So they can't be flanked in open country.

Also does any one use the axillaries/mercenaries for the Darknuts? That is also a Roman thing.

[Cielo the Pachirisu]

Yes, because you absolutely have to. With no light infantry, no accessible cavalry, and no ranged units, honestly the Darknuts all by themselves would probably be relatively easy to defeat. In lacking each of those things, they don't really have any defense against any of them, bar maaayybbeee the light infantry from sheer strength. The AI might have difficulty doing it if they don't have the room to maneuver, but they might be able to win if it's any less than a full stack of Masters.

If nothing else, at least get the Zuna Crossbowmen whenever possible. Gerudo Pirates are also rather nice multi-purpose troops, Tokay Hunters can make for some good infantry support, and Keatons are great flankers.

Anyway, I certainly try to put them in forts. Getting attacked by a ranged- or light- or even cavalry-focused army out in the field is often pretty nightmarish. Especially cavalry-focused armies.

[Bloodly]

Neo-Darknut commentary.(Or should it be Darknut Neo?)

No Darknut unit has Hardy or Very Hardy now. Tiredness is a real danger, especially given as even in an even fight, their 21 has to fight 63; three times as much effort, 3 times as much stamina lost, and the ever present danger of penalties from surrounding.

Both Legionaries and Doomknockers are Armour Piercing. Melee stats are equal, the Doomknocker has 1 point more shield, and thus a minor cost increase. Why would I buy Doomknockers beyond looks?

The heroes Zalunbar, Yaronxal, and Senturon have troops that lack the special abilities of their normal units. Zalunbar's Jermanfensers do not have the Command trait, and Senturon's Legionaries and Yaronxal's Doomknockers lack the Armour-Pierce trait.

Gymnitai are scarily fast, almost as fast as Fokka. At least now you don't NEED the Fokka for fast rams and such.

Peltasts are 8 armour, 4 defence, 8 shield. This is kinda terrifying when you consider Legionaries are 8/5/6, Doomknockers are 8/5/7, and Jermanfensers, the ultimate Darknut infantry, are 8/5/8.

Buildings are hilariously expensive, aside from the basics and certain standouts like the Hanging Gardens. This also results in recruitment being centralised, mostly out of necessity. Your heroes and starting units will have to work overtime. It also means few places will have free upkeep Hoplites, because they can't afford the 2800 per town to get it(Remember, you need to be able to recruit the unit in the town to have it count).

They're still simple, they have more options(Actual Cavalry! Ranged units!), but it's outweighed by costs at every turn.

They have Construction Time Reduction buildings, but I wonder at the effectiveness. Mostly because I'm not sure how Med2 handles rounding when it comes to building times. The first level gives 30%. This will knock a turn off buildings that take 4. I'm uncertain on 3-turn buildings. The second level gives 40%. This will knock a turn off 3-turn buildings. Thing is, only a few buildings take more than 4 turns. Many are 2 or 3.