Faction - The Deku Tribes

[Vlad The Vanquisher]

They could be a close Ranged unit with capable melee. they would have a ranged attack that looks like a spiky tongue coming out. the projectile animation would have a 2 part trail. 1 would disappear before the other. giving the illusion that the spiky tongue is retracting.


they may be set loss like dogs. and not have a actual rider.

Oh I see what you mean now. So the Snap Dragons would be similar to the Moldorm Swarm unit in that no one rides them? This would make for an interesting concept.

[Moorish guy]

Does anyone have any strategies for these guys, I usually end up simply swarming me enemy to death, if the odds are even against just about any foe they can just run me over

[nintendo64isking]

Does anyone have any strategies for these guys, I usually end up simply swarming me enemy to death, if the odds are even against just about any foe they can just run me over

I tend to use magnolia and yucca scrubs for ranged purposes, group together most infantry as a frontline, keep firing at the enemy till they reach you then charge at them. Meanwhile use lily scrubs to surround the enemy if you can as they move quickly and are good at flanking.

[Moorish guy]

Thank you, do the deku have diplomats?

[nintendo64isking]

Thank you, do the deku have diplomats?

not at the moment, though every faction except the gohma will get them eventually

[Xebenkeck]

This is more of a campaign thing, but Neph do you plan on having Woodfall as a settlement/ruin/temple in the game?

It just seems like an odd exception considering it's importance to the Deku tribe in MM. It being their sacred temple which only Deku's are allowed to step foot in, hence the Deku Pipes. And it houses their Deity Odolwa.

Or is it a building that will be implemented into Deku Prime?

Or not implemented at all?

[Drazule]

Is the Deku Palace Theme playing first thing on Deku Prime intentional, or a ridiculously coincidental music choice by the engine? Because I restarted the match twice and it was the first song to play each time.
(How was I suppose to know that cannons are useless when you have no walls????)

[Kahath]

Does anyone have any strategies for these guys, I usually end up simply swarming me enemy to death, if the odds are even against just about any foe they can just run me over

The Problem with the Deku Tribes is that they are an almost entirely ranged faction. As such they get roflstomped by any faction that has good melee, and good ranged units. This is especially true in the event of sieges, making it very hard for the deku tribes to hold even a heavily fortified city. My advice to you is to take advantage of the many mercenaries that can be be found all over the map. Good choices that are close by are the Garu macemen in Fairy territory, or the large numbers of tokay hunters in Labrynna territory. Both will allow you to make a large army very quickly and fill in some gaps from the Deku's unit roster.

[Drazule]

One advantage the Deku have going for them is that they don't need to bother with Ranks to fight. One unit can still shoot over the one in melee and keep doing damage. I'm not sure if this is really effective since I don't play Deku, but I feel like that is something to take advantage of.

[ozli]

I really, really enjoy the aesthetic of this faction, but I find the complete lack of effective melee fighters and the fragility of peahats and orhats very disappointing. Also, Deku baba plants are a great idea but don't seem to work properly.

Perhaps the deku could get some forest animal units like wolves?

[Eldren]

Red Deku baba plants. will chase after you if you cut them down with a sword. Speaking of which. What was that Massive Deku baba plant? the one with 3 Heads.

[SilverLich]

That would be Diababa I believe.

[Cameron Shutters]

There should be Mad Scrubs. Perhaps behave like more powerful Forest Scrubs but have a tendency to rampage like the Big Octoroks.

Some people here complain that the scrubs are weak due to a lack of dedicated melee or cavalry, but once you learn their strategy they are heaps of fun and are actually quite interestingly balanced; being strong against some factions and weak against others.

Orhats go in front to weaken enemy forces as quickly as possible right away. Because of their high speed they can quickly retreat behind a patch of other scrubs and the continue to fire. They also make mediocre cavalry if you're in a bad spot; just charge them head long into enemies and the enemies will go flying. Then pull the Orhats back and fire on the enemy from a distance like usual. Because of their size+speed few units will be able to stop an Orhat charge.

Deku Babas go next. Spread them out as much as possible and position the scrubs behind them. The Deku Babas won't do much damage on their own but they take a long time for even large armies to kill giving your scrubs plenty of time to fire upon the enemy. Seeing as scrubs can fire over one another you don't need to plan out you scrub spacing and just bunch them together. The only time this fails is if you're on the attack or need to charge due to taking fire from enemies outside of your scrub's range such as Trebuchets.

Peahats behave as hard hitting heavy infantry. They'll mow down enemy light infantry easily and are great in chokepoints. The main disadvantage is that there are so few of them which is why they are most effective in chokepoints. I like to keep them off to one side by my Deku Babas and use them to catch any enemy infantry attempting to charge straight through my Deku Babas.

Royal Scrubs are the best melee combatant next to Peahats, but like all scrubs they prefer to keep their distance and are most effectively used like all other scrubs as skirmishers. If enemy cavalry are charging and no Deku Babs or Peahats are available Royal Scrubs are the best and most obvious choice. They'll quickly break formation and route without doing much damage; but remember the goal is to harass and confuse thus giving your other scrubs a chance to retreat and fire upon the enemy cavalry.

Every other scrub is used basically the same way as skirmishers. Keep your distance and make sure to kill of faster enemy units and ranged enemy units quickly and you'll easy whittle down enemy melee forces with almost no casualties until they break and route. Even some ranged enemy units can often be whittled down using Yucca Scrubs as Yucca Scrubs have great range.

The obvious counters to Deku Scrubs are cavalry and ranged units. Deku Babas are used to surprise and stop enemy cavalry, Peahats are used to distract and kill, scrubs and Orhats to whittle them down bit by bit, and Royal Scrubs as a last resort defense. Enemy ranged units will generally get eaten alive by Peahats so long as the Peahats don't get too overwhelmed by numbers or surrounded. Orhats and Yucca Scrubs are also good to use against enemy ranged units due to being able to fire upon some enemy ranged units without taking any fire back due to their own long range. Royal and Pine Scrubs make for acceptable groups to charge enemy ranged units so long as they aren't intercepted by enemy melee. I believe although I haven't tested it that Lily Scrubs would be useful against enemy range due to Lily Scrubs having shields to defend against enemy fire.

If assaulting an enemy fortress just use Orhats like catapults and take advantage of Yucca Scrub's long range to whittle down enemy archers on the walls. If defending a fortress I've found that Deku Babas and Peahats can hold a gateway easily while scrubs rain death down from the walls.

As for Mangolia Scrubs I really have no idea since I haven't ever used them (yet).

Using these tactics I was able to do very well in a Deku campaign before my save got corrupted. The Deku are incredible against some enemies and pathetic against others so it can seem frustrating at times but I think the lack of any real cavalry or melee make the Deku an interesting and entertaining faction to play as. Perhaps the most important thing to remember though is that the Deku spirit is bravery born from being weak in mind and cowardice being born from being weak in body. I'm still researching the Deku and what tactics that they can use but if this was useful to anyone I'd be happy to share if I find out anything else useful.

[Saria's Vanguard]

Thanks for the Deku guide, I haven't really tried them in a long time and now i feel like I should start again. Also I agree that there should be mad scrubs

[Kahath]

The problem with having a race being totally ranged, or totally melee is that both are situational weapons. And while a human player is able to play as the Deku tribes against the A.I. and do fairly well, the same can't be said for Human vs Human interaction.

An excellent example are the Apachean tribes from the Americas campaign. They are hilariously broken, but a human player is still able to win against the shockingly stupid computer. I honestly think that the Deku tribes should be absorbed into the Kokiri faction. It will fill holes in their roster, and leave a slot for another faction Neph wants to add as he has already said he wants several more.

[Saria's Vanguard]

An excellent example are the Apachean tribes from the Americas campaign. They are hilariously broken

When I first played the Americas expansion I overlooked the Apache because I saw they were almost entirely ranged units with little melee. When I decided to give them a try they became my favorite because of how ridiculously strong they are and I love them for it

[Kahath]

We must be playing a different game then, I obliterated 3 1/2 stacks of med/high level Apachean units with a half stack of conquistadors very easily. I mean against any other race with decent ranged and horsemen can beat them easily.

But they do have very powerful mounted range units though. The mounted thunderbraves are the best, you can cut down stack after stack with those guys. I also found that when taking a city, their low upkeep lets you just make multiple stacks to lay siege to it and never actually need to attack. They also have very poor melee units.

[Cameron Shutters]

I think it's more likely you're playing the same game with different strategies if one of you thinks the Apache are overpowered and the other thinks they are underpowered. One of the things I think some people forget is that HTW is a game with incredibly different factions each requiring both a different strategy to play as and against. Will the Deku have problems fighting certain factions? Of course. Will the Deku easily defeat others? Of course. The real question is whether or not it's game breaking, which I don't believe it is.

So what this comes down too is would you rather have a faction that is strong is some situations and weak in others but is unique to play as or a faction that is equal against all forces but different only in appearance and namesake? To change the Deku in the way some people here have proposed would destroy the unique strategies one has to employ to be effective.

Did I mention I easily defeated Labrynna in a custom battle with equal funds on medium difficulty? Their gunners proved quite ineffective in the face of superior strategy despite having some of the most powerful ranged units in the game. I used my Peahats to kill their cannons in the first 45 seconds of battle or so, avoided the gunner posts, and used skirmishing scrubs to whittle down their forces while having my Peahats strike at routing units, isolated units, and unguarded ranged units. The most difficult part was killing off Labrynna's mechs since they're so armored, but they never got to touch hardly any of units due to the skirmishing tactics.

As for player battles being broken I'd say HTW doesn't have the community for online multiplayer to matter much due to the small size of the fanbase. HTW is and should remain primarily a single player game.

If there is anything the scrubs need to fix them up it's make the Forest Scrubs ranged equal to the other scrubs since it's currently stronger which makes no sense since they are the cheapest scrub. and make the Lily, Pine, and Fungi scrubs more unique because they all behave like Forest Scrubs for the most part. Lastly an armor piercing unit of some sort would be great (Mad Scrubs maybe?).


I've forgotten to mention a few things in my prior strategy guide type thing.

First off, and very important, scrubs do not fire like typical bowmen as their nuts move directly toward enemies rather than up and down meaning that any sort of walls or hills will be troublesome.

Enemy siege weapons are incredibly dangerous. They tend to have better range than any scrub and since scrubs will naturally group together when firing at enemies (due to them not needing ranks) plus there are tons of them making scrubs an easy target a single hit with a cannonball can do tremendous damage. There is no real counter to this other than drawing away melee units from the siege engines to give your Peahats a clear shot a them without being intercepted. If your Peahats get there the enemy siege units will be dead in very little time at all. Royal or Pine Scrubs can also be used for charging at siege units but it's not preferred.

Psychological warfare is something the scrubs are decent at and is how I deal with gunner posts and such if possible. Because scrubs are so numerous they tend to terrify enemies later on as their friends get killed and their numbers dwindle. It's not a whole lot more than most factions really, but in my above fight with Labrynna I killed off their gunner posts by rushing my units straight at them causing the gunner posts to break and route rather than try to fight. I waited until the end to do this so I could use all my units for that to make sure I caused them to route since if it had not worked my scrubs probably would've taken a beating. On the flip side scrubs are very cowardly so use that rally ability if they look like they're about to break.

Finally in the campaign I'd highly suggest befriending the four minor races near the Deku start (Huskus, Horons, Subrosians, and Tokay) as soon as possible since they'll likely desire membership and give the Deku Tribes a huge boost early on. Be aware that the Tokay are isolated and you must go through Labrynna territory to get to them though.

[Jakeford]

I honestly think that the Deku tribes should be absorbed into the Kokiri faction. It will fill holes in their roster, and leave a slot for another faction Neph wants to add as he has already said he wants several more.

But why would the deku tribes want to team up with the Kokiri? Currently the Deku scrubs are enemies with the Kokiri. On top of that the nature of the Deku means they wouldn't want to team up with them.

[Kahath]

When I first played the Americas expansion I overlooked the Apache because I saw they were almost entirely ranged units with little melee. When I decided to give them a try they became my favorite because of how ridiculously strong they are and I love them for it

Ok, I forgot about the "Warpath" ability. That doesn't count.