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Thread: Storyline discussion

  1. #1
    Attaxer's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Storyline discussion

    I understand this being a total war game that story oft takes a back seat, but given the lore that neph has so graciously supplied us. What are some story ideas that come to mind when you think of hyrule this way as opposed to filtered through the lens of falsehood that is link. This mod has me thinking on a grand scale, and possible sequence of events. One idea I'm working in my head is a ganondorf origin story. Why are the gerudo and hyrule enemies? What problematic could exist besides the triforce struggle that give the average soldier and general something worth fighting for. How did ganondorf go about uniting all.these different factions in a single effort to eliminate hyrule? What happened during links seven year absence. How did ganondorf stage his coup? That is a story worth telling my friends.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    I dont know if I understand you right, but Neph uses his own Lore, starting here.

  3. #3
    Attaxer's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    :O

  4. #4

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Attaxer View Post
    :O
    Same feeling after I saw this first.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenfan View Post
    I dont know if I understand you right, but Neph uses his own Lore, starting here.
    I was under the impression that Neph's lore was used as the basis for the mod, but that the storyline is still it's own beast. For instance, the sheer scope of the story has been hugely increased, as well as the timeframe in which the story takes place. I'd always considered Neph's previous lore as 'canon unless otherwise stated.'

    Not to mention the nature of the game makes every players campaign a unique story. I think what the OP was going for was either after action reports or just general ideas for storylines that would take place within H:TW's own 'universe' considering how distinct the atmosphere is from other Zelda games.

    Personally, I like to ignore little tidbits like Saria's history as a rape victim/beaten wife. Especially with her characterization as a military leader in the mod.

    Also, just how much do we actually know about the Darknut's from the Zelda games themselves/Neph's own lore? I can only remember having them pop out as arbitrary mini-bosses, rather than anything directly related to lore/race.

    And have we ever seen a non-enemy Darknut? Like one with a speaking role?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by KaeporaGaebora View Post
    just how much do we actually know about the Darknut's from the Zelda games themselves
    Duke Serkol to the rescue!

    Quote Originally Posted by KaeporaGaebora View Post
    have we ever seen a non-enemy Darknut? Like one with a speaking role?
    Nope! Unlike Moblins and Zoras, Darknuts have always been restricted to the role of non-talkative enemies.

    So what do we know? Here's what:

    In the first Zelda game, Darknuts were underworld enemies. Only in the BS Zelda remake they could be encountered on the overworld and only when Ganon shrouded the world in darkness.

    Not counting LA (since it's just a dream), the Darknuts made their second appearence in the Oracle games. This time around, besides the standard sword and shield, some Darknuts would use nothing but javelins to attack you. A ball and chain guy also seems to have joined their ranks (but was never officially confirmed as being a Darknut himself... really though, what else would he be then? He's also with them in FS and TMC).

    Interestingly, the Oracle games are the only ones in which Darknuts can regularly be found in the wild, specifically on Talus Peak and around the Temple of Season's Ruins (together with Lynels, which has led some, myself included to think that it would be good to give them Lynel cavalry).

    Mostly though, in every game they show up in, Darknuts seem to tendencially dwell within ruins left behind by other civilizations. Perhaps this could be the reason why in TWW, when we can finally unmask them, they are revealed to be jackal-like canines?

    In Capcom's Oracles, they could be found within the Tarm Ruins and in the Sea of No Return (again with Lynels). This is interesting because the dungeon within the Sea of No Return has this boss guarding it:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Why is it interesting? Because in the later Capcom game The Minish Cap, the Darknuts could be found in the Wind Ruins, the boss of which was this guy:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    That, together with the stylistic similarities between Tarm Ruins and the Wind Ruins (check the statues at the entrance of both), makes me think Capcom intended all these places to be related to the Wind Tribe... and by extension the Darknuts dwelling in them (having perhaps fought against the Wind Tribe until they flew to the sky?).

    This Wind Tribe connection is of course speculation on my part, but there seems to be a solid connection between Darknuts and the Wind Sorcerer Vaati. Darknuts have appeared both in Four Swords and in the Dark Hyrule Castle conquered by Vaati (including the unique Black Knight).
    In fact, the Dark Hyrule Castle even features Darknut statues! (Based on their FS sprite)

    TWW also gave us some more lore about the Darknuts. Besides the aforementioned first look at their faces, we encounter Darknuts both in the conquered Hyrule Castle and within the Tower of the Gods (infiltrators sent to get in the hero's way?).
    Most interestingly though, TWW heavily implies that the Darknuts are the primary responsible for the extermination of the Knights of Hyrule. It does this by having the Darknuts wear the insigna of defeated Hylian Knights as trophies (which Link collects as proof of his abilities).
    And it of course introduced the Mighty Darknut rank.

    Finally in TP we see the Darknuts without helmet again, but not completely unmasked. Their faces here seem to not have the big snout from TWW, but it could still be possible that they are dogs (until evidence of the contrary, right?).
    A unique looking Darknut is encountered in the Temple of Time, while in other locations (again the conquered Hyrule Castle and the pit of trials or whatever it was called) we find for the first time ones that sport clubs.
    That unique one in the Temple of Time is also fought in Link's Crossbow Training where it displays the uncanny ability to turn into bats. Odd.

    Darknut symbology seems to incorporate snakes... make of that what you will (snakes have been present in the imagery of Gerudo, Twili and within the Water Temple as well as Lanayru's room in TP), and the unique one in TP has a sword that resembles the one shown off by Ganondorf in Smash Bros Melee.

    And that's pretty much all!
    Last edited by Duke Serkol; July 11, 2012 at 10:59 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Serkol View Post
    Duke Serkol to the rescue!


    Nope! Unlike Moblins and Zoras, Darknuts have always been restricted to the role of non-talkative enemies.

    So what do we know? Here's what:

    In the first Zelda game, Darknuts were underworld enemies. Only in the BS Zelda remake they could be encountered on the overworld and only when Ganon shrouded the world in darkness.

    Not counting LA (since it's just a dream), the Darknuts made their second appearence in the Oracle games. This time around, besides the standard sword and shield, some Darknuts would use nothing but javelins to attack you. A ball and chain guy also seems to have joined their ranks (but was never officially confirmed as being a Darknut himself... really though, what else would he be then? He's also with them in FS and TMC).

    Interestingly, the Oracle games are the only ones in which Darknuts can regularly be found in the wild, specifically on Talus Peak and around the Temple of Season's Ruins (together with Lynels, which has led some, myself included to think that it would be good to give them Lynel cavalry).

    Mostly though, in every game they show up in, Darknuts seem to tendencially dwell within ruins left behind by other civilizations. Perhaps this could be the reason why in TWW, when we can finally unmask them, they are revealed to be jackal-like canines?

    In Capcom's Oracles, they could be found within the Tarm Ruins and in the Sea of No Return (again with Lynels). This is interesting because the dungeon within the Sea of No Return has this boss guarding it:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Why is it interesting? Because in the later Capcom game The Minish Cap, the Darknuts could be found in the Wind Ruins, the boss of which was this guy:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    That, together with the stylistic similarities between Tarm Ruins and the Wind Ruins (check the statues at the entrance of both), makes me think Capcom intended all these places to be related to the Wind Tribe... and by extension the Darknuts dwelling in them (having perhaps fought against the Wind Tribe until they flew to the sky?).

    This Wind Tribe connection is of course speculation on my part, but there seems to be a solid connection between Darknuts and the Wind Sorcerer Vaati. Darknuts have appeared both in Four Swords and in the Dark Hyrule Castle conquered by Vaati (including the unique Black Knight).
    In fact, the Dark Hyrule Castle even features Darknut statues! (Based on their FS sprite)

    TWW also gave us some more lore about the Darknuts. Besides the aforementioned first look at their faces, we encounter Darknuts both in the conquered Hyrule Castle and within the Tower of the Gods (infiltrators sent to get in the hero's way?).
    Most interestingly though, TWW heavily implies that the Darknuts are the primary responsible for the extermination of the Knights of Hyrule. It does this by having the Darknuts wear the insigna of defeated Hylian Knights as trophies (which Link collects as proof of his abilities).
    And it of course introduced the Mighty Darknut rank.

    Finally in TP we see the Darknuts without helmet again, but not completely unmasked. Their faces here seem to not have the big snout from TWW, but it could still be possible that they are dogs (until evidence of the contrary, right?).
    A unique looking Darknut is encountered in the Temple of Time, while in other locations (again the conquered Hyrule Castle and the pit of trials or whatever it was called) we find for the first time ones that sport clubs.
    That unique one in the Temple of Time is also fought in Link's Crossbow Training where it displays the uncanny ability to turn into bats. Odd.

    Darknut symbology seems to incorporate snakes... make of that what you will (snakes have been present in the imagery of Gerudo, Twili and within the Water Temple as well as Lanayru's room in TP), and the unique one in TP has a sword that resembles the one shown off by Ganondorf in Smash Bros Melee.

    And that's pretty much all!
    Damn, they were right when they said to always bet on Duke!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by KaeporaGaebora View Post
    Damn, they were right when they said to always bet on Duke!
    ALWAYS BET ON DUKE!!!

    Rare footage of Duke Serkol speaking.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by KaeporaGaebora View Post
    I was under the impression that Neph's lore was used as the basis for the mod, but that the storyline is still it's own beast. For instance, the sheer scope of the story has been hugely increased, as well as the timeframe in which the story takes place. I'd always considered Neph's previous lore as 'canon unless otherwise stated.'

    Not to mention the nature of the game makes every players campaign a unique story. I think what the OP was going for was either after action reports or just general ideas for storylines that would take place within H:TW's own 'universe' considering how distinct the atmosphere is from other Zelda games.

    Personally, I like to ignore little tidbits like Saria's history as a rape victim/beaten wife. Especially with her characterization as a military leader in the mod.

    Also, just how much do we actually know about the Darknut's from the Zelda games themselves/Neph's own lore? I can only remember having them pop out as arbitrary mini-bosses, rather than anything directly related to lore/race.

    And have we ever seen a non-enemy Darknut? Like one with a speaking role?
    Wait, wait, wait......Saria as a rape victim/beaten wife? Where the hell did this come from?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlyDark View Post
    ALWAYS BET ON DUKE!!!

    Rare footage of Duke Serkol speaking.
    Eh, funny thing is, lots of people actually think my name is Duke. In actuality, my nickname comes from a shortlived RP I embarked on when I first got on-line back in 1999. In it, my character was this dude named Serkol who happened to bear the nobiliary title of Duke.
    At one point I even tried to change my nickname to Arch-Duke Serkol, to stop the confusion, but by then it was too much of an hassle.

    But enough of that, I don't wish to derail this topic any further.
    If you guys have any other questions concerning the lore of the official games, do feel free to throw them in my general direction at any time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnr839 View Post
    Wait, wait, wait......Saria as a rape victim/beaten wife? Where the hell did this come from?
    You might want to do like Link and follow Kaepora's advice, not to look too much into that.

  11. #11
    Mattwensley's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnr839 View Post
    Wait, wait, wait......Saria as a rape victim/beaten wife? Where the hell did this come from?
    It's from the lore of Neph - Saria is raped and murdered by Mido (who I always liked, but hard to stick by him here), and becomes the sage. Mido joins the Gohma, and then... well, that would be telling. Get an afternoon spare, and read the whole thing!
    As for the wife, that's another thing. Kafei is involved, as are the Wizzrobe. It's wide-spread, but still congruous!
    ~~Knowledge is power, and I do not like the feeling of weakness~~
    ~~If it's a million to one shot, I'll make sure I'm the one~~

  12. #12
    Attaxer's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    O.o h-hold on. Can we RP here?!

  13. #13
    Attaxer's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    O.o h-hold on. Can we RP here?! It's been a very long time since I've had a decent rp. A HTW rp could be an interesting way to explore some of the possibilities of the world, perhaps even some unit ideas could come of it.

  14. #14
    Attaxer's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Sorry my computer was being dumb and not posting my reply, during which time I bean to find my original post boring and uninspired so I decided to add to it. xD

  15. #15
    UndyingNephalim's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnr839 View Post
    Wait, wait, wait......Saria as a rape victim/beaten wife? Where the hell did this come from?
    Yeeaaahhhh... best not to investigate that.
    There's a reason this game is remake of all of that stuff on paper...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Yeeaaahhhh... best not to investigate that.
    There's a reason this game is remake of all of that stuff on paper...

    ah, the Old Shame, everyone has one.

  17. #17
    Mattwensley's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Attaxer View Post
    O.o h-hold on. Can we RP here?! It's been a very long time since I've had a decent rp. A HTW rp could be an interesting way to explore some of the possibilities of the world, perhaps even some unit ideas could come of it.
    No reason why not! I applied to be in an RP once on the Escapist magazine (it was a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. one), but it had reached its capacity, so as of yet, I have not had one
    So yeah! As long as someone runs over the general protocol for RPs, I'd like to see a HTW RP thread going on!
    ~~Knowledge is power, and I do not like the feeling of weakness~~
    ~~If it's a million to one shot, I'll make sure I'm the one~~

  18. #18

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Any moment now someone is going to be asked to "take a seat over there"

  19. #19
    Attaxer's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattwensley View Post
    No reason why not! I applied to be in an RP once on the Escapist magazine (it was a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. one), but it had reached its capacity, so as of yet, I have not had one
    So yeah! As long as someone runs over the general protocol for RPs, I'd like to see a HTW RP thread going on!
    That's the spirit. I would love to do it, any mods have any objections?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Storyline discussion

    Is it just me or is anyone else bothered by the fact that Ganondorf and Ganon are on the map at the same time?

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