Imbalances and possible fixes to them.

[Scar86]

It has been discussed thoroughly before in the original topic, But I feel it would be best to have one single thread where we can go over all of these things and pool our efforts together, perhaps coming up with ways to fix them.

Now that the campaign has been released, we may also need to address the issues (excluding glitches) pertaining to advancement of our empires.



As I list the imbalances I have noticed, be sure to keep this forumla in mind when I mention HP.



In the Vanilla game, the forumla was broken down as such



Standard unit 60+ men

1 hp

1-17 att (Ranged Varied)

4-30 defense


Elite Unit 30 men

2 hp

9-25 att (ranged was anywhere from 10-23) (Naffatun)

12-31 def


Extremley Rare units (New world Bodygaurd is the only one I can think of)

20 men

3 HP

20+ att

20+ def




I'll start with everything I have personally tested.

(Feel free to contribute)
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Kingdom of Hyrule:


Crossbowmen are nasty in a melee fight, which is strange considering they are just lowly crossbowmen.

Princess Zelda I is ridiculously hard to kill, even while surrounded. None of the other Zelda's seem to be as tough as her.

Raru Does not have any extra hitpoints, which is strange considering he is a hero. (i suppose this was a simple mistake)

The Triforce Vangaurd simply does not live up to expectations, and oftentimes are shamefully outclassed by their seemingly inferior brethren, the ironclad Elites.
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Orodona Province:


Despite being a cavalry based faction, their cavalry is the laughingstock of HTW, strange considering they are farmers.

The Hawkmen are not numerous or powerful enough to do significant damage.

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Zora:


The Zora infiltrators have a paltry 6 units in their group, are vunerable to missles, have no extra hitpoints, and have a passable attack/defense rating considering the unit size and other variables. Hit points should be increased to at LEAST 2. At the moment they are absolutely crushed in every fight with little to no losses
from my soldiers.


Zaleen is slightly better with 3 hp, but needs a small boost to his unit, perhaps 4 or 5.



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Kokiri:


Grove watchers are for some reason just barley up to the task of being heavy infantry, which is strange considering their brethren, the kokiri minutemen are absolute monsters. (also, since they are the official General's bodyguard, it may be wise to give them 2 hp, and perhaps lower the unit count. just as it was in vanilla medeival. (War leader's retinue in America's campaign consisted of 30 men with 2 hp)


Emerald Archers are the True heavy infantry of the kokiri, and with the advantage of a ranged attack, it is not uncommon for them to be the first ones on the walls in a seige battle (for me anyways). Personally I like them this way, but considering the advantage they hold over other units, it seems unfair.


Deku Trees have no extra hitpoints and are unfortunately slaughtered without remorse. Considering they are heavy cavalry this is odd. Also Sad to me because they are one of my favorite units.


Mudmen of Faron (Or mudmen of Fail as I call them ) make a mockery of the kokiri military, I cant put my finger on it, but they are just SO bad.

bad morale, bad stamina, bad att/def, bad everything. The reason it sticks out so much is as a whole, the kokiri Military is superior in most other regards. I think an attack or perhaps a defense boost would be suitable.

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Gorons:





Dem Ruby Gaurds


Dat Darunia


Dat EVERYTHING


no just kidding. the real problem is the gorons roll is so fast that their powerful melee units can close the distance between armies very quickly. Speed+power= pwnage.

Perhaps slow their roll slightly, because at the moment, even the olympic sprinters of the kokiri and the stalfos cannot escape.

also, Bomb throwers/MBT do not have enough range to do any meaningful damage.

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Gerudo:


Nabooru's unit is frail and is quickly swept aside, considering they're overall good stats, I've jotted it down as a weapon bug or something. Regardless Nabooru doesn't compete with the likes of the other Heroes in a duel.

GerudoDorf's targeting AI is not very good, and they will often attempt to shoot through solid objects they cannot penetrate. Otherwise, perfect.
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The Gohma:


Difficult to explain, But I'll do my best.


Generally, units that are seemingly (Upgrades) of their predecessor's have no meaningful difference in attack and defense values.


Perfect Example


Gohma Larvae; Unit size (126)


Att 1

Def 4

Charge 1


Gohma Juveniles (Unit Size 126)


Att 2

Def 4

Charge 2



This may not seem like a big deal at first, but when you consider that a gohma larvae costs HALF as much as it's (upgrade) unit, you can see that there is pretty much no reason to spend more rupees on a unit that only has a negligibly better attack rating.


The gohma Juveniles should probably increased to at least 4 damage, and keep them with 4 defence.


Gohma adolescents, although an upgrade of their previous forms have LOWER attack and defense values. It may seem fine considering that they are an archer, but even that will not save them from a brutal and swift end on the battlefield. They should have the highest defensive or attack rating of the 3. (in my opinion)


Gohma Long legs have no Extra hit points, a laughable attack/defense rating and with only 12 units, are crushed and swept aside with little to no resistance. Perhaps increasing their unit count would fix this, as it wouldn't make sense to give them more hit points (maybe).



with an attack rating of 3, and defense of 4 Mido simply cannot compete, and is easily killed by even basic units.


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Lanaryru Province.


The Heroes of this faction do not have any extra hitpoints, and only average attack and defense values. Needless to say, they are unceremoniously violated by all manner of foul creatures and can do nothing to fight back. Sad to see since they are heroes, and rather interesting ones at that.


Gaurdian Maidens and shore sentries have too little attack and defense/HP to make up for their small numbers, and are the laughingstock of Elite units. Also Sad because I think they look very nice.


Archer Battlecrabs are not numerous enough to do any significant damage with their arrows, and are generally innefective aside from being mediocre damage tanks.


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Deku Tribes:


Need a small boost of perhaps 1 or 2 to their ranged attack across the board, otherwise fine.


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Moblins:


Perfectly balanced and deadly except for the fact that most of their heroes do not have any extra hp, and are easily clobbered. (Ogalon and King Bublin, odd considering how tough he was in TP)
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Darknut Legion:


Low unit count coupled with a slow movement speed means that these guys do not last very long in a prolonged fight. They are excellent in the first 15 minutes or so of a game, but afterwards they tire quickly and are killed.



It seems to me that the Darknuts simply don't have the manpower required to make it through a fight. I think it would be prudent to either slightly up their unit count (by about 5-6) across the board.


or give them much more stamina, because that is their biggest problem.



Dishonored: Since they are a spearmen I belive they have a hardcoded reduction in stamina, nonetheless, they tire ridiculously fast and are of no use to me in battle. I can generally fight off horses with my adepts if need be.



The Fokka Knights are no help to their brethren, and die quickly since they are so few. A beautifully modeled and textured unit, unfortunatley I've only got to look at them once, because after my first battle using them, I couldn't bring myself to do it again.



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Lizalfols:


Balanced and Deadly. I like them a great deal, except for


Aero Fols unit size is too small in relation to their att/def/hp values, and they are easily killed.


Vakat the Winged sufferes the same fate. Even more embarrassing since he is a Hero.


Now generally I would talk about how the other Lizafols heroes dont have any extra hp and cant compete, but amazingly, they actually CAN compete, and in some cases, even defeat other, more powerful heroes.
I think this is because they have many good units to fall back on if they need assistance.
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Faries of Tarm:


The Korrigans have very low HP value for their unit size, and with average att/def, as well as no ranged attack. They die rather quickly in comparison to other units of their faction.

other than that, this faction is perfect.
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Stalfos:


With the new update it feels as though they have been fixed. They are still difficult, but are no longer the doomstacks of doom they once we're. I can not find anything wrong with this faction.



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Order of the Wizzrobe:


Geomancers Range feels a bit too long, considering the damage they deal.

Auquamancers and Pyromancers are not very good and generally do not measure up to their brethren. A weak missle attack, small unit size and poor accuracy make them better cannon fodder than missle units.

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Labrynna Regime:

gunners are not very accurate.

Awful melee soldiers, but I'm sure that will be fixed with the next update.

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Kingdom of Ikana


Although in the description it say's they have superior soldiers in most regards, the soldiers of Ikana Kingdom are generally underwhelming and do not live up to their mighty reputation. With average morale, average unit sizes, average stamina, and average attack and defense values. the Kingdom of Ikana, with a few exceptions (most notably Captain Keeta and the Garo's) just feel average. considering their reputation, This is a problem.



Noblemen do not have the Hp, or att/def to make up for their low unit size, and although the best looking of the ikana units (in my opinion) there is generally no reason to use them, when you could just bring footmen and gatekeepers.


overall I belive a fairly good defensive boost across the board seems in order, seeing as how they represent the souls of soldiers who have fought through hundreds of years of war. (they sure don't fight like it)


For some Reason King Igos Du Ikana goes down really fast. I think it is again, because his defense is too low.




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Forces of Twilight


Same Problem, only worse


with medium to small unit sizes, average to low attack and defense, and no meaningful ranged units, these guy's make the Orodona Province look like Gladiators. Sad, as I expected more from them.



In my eyes the way you could fix this is either by upping their unit count by about 20 per unit, or giving them higher att/def.


*UPDATE
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Mercenaries

Huskus as a whole have poor morale and insufficient hp to make up for their small unit sizes. attack/defense values are fine.


Huskus Knights are FAR to few in number in relation to their HP/ att/def values. and are easily defeated, depsite being what I assume to be the strongest of the Huskus.

I suggest giving them at least 3 hp, or increasing unit size

Huskus bounty hunters/warrior caste are the same deal, only slightly better due to having many more units.

I suggest giving them 2 hp, or increasing the unit size.




And with that, i conclude my wall of text, please feel free to contribute to it!

[DiddlyDark]

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Kingdom of Hyrule:


Crossbowmen are nasty in a melee fight, which is strange considering they are just lowly crossbowmen.

Princess Zelda I is ridiculously hard to kill, even while surrounded. None of the other Zelda's seem to be as tough as her.

Raru Does not have any extra hitpoints, which is strange considering he is a hero. (i suppose this was a simple mistake)

The Triforce Vangaurd simply does not live up to expectations, and oftentimes are shamefully outclassed by their seemingly inferior brethren, the ironclad Elites.

The Triforce Vangaurd simply does not live up to expectations, and oftentimes are shamefully outclassed by their seemingly inferior brethren, the Ironclad Elites.

Shamefully outclassed.

Shame.



Also, the problem with the Kokiri is that they're supposed to be frail and weak individually, but they're insanely overpowered because, to be honest, the game is very, very unbalanced. I mean, only the Gorons are more overpowered. It would probably be better if I just ignored the mod until someone creates a Real Combat/Real Recruitment that's compatible with the game. But hey, i'm probably going to get flamed because I find gameplay and balance more important than ZOMG IT'S ZELDA!!!!!

[Mjolnr839]

I agree with you on most points, Korrigans need a major boost considering they are the shock troops protecting every other Fairy unit. Hell I usually have like 7 groups of them in a Fairy army.

Wind Witches are falsely labeled as Gerudadorf, while the REAL Gerudadorf could use a bit of buff, they die crazy fast, to the point it's usually more useful to have Maruders for the woman power, or pay more for some extra knuckles for the punch.

I find the Kokiri in general to be grossly OP across the board considering how they always take over half the map and kill off like 4-5 factions at least. Either everyone else needs a buff, or they need a faction wide nerf.

Ordona needs a faction wide buff I'd say. Rangers are the best unit they have by far I'd say, and I'd put them at the 3rd strongest bow unit in the game.

And I agree that Fokka are completely and utterly useless.

i find Geomancers to be extremely OP, i've had games where they have 1-3000 kills each in large games, while other wizzrobe units are lucky to break 50 kills.

Lanaryu could use a buff in general, especially the Guardian Maidens. I really don't think the stats need much improvement, I think some extra (wo)manpower and maybe a extra stat point or to and they'd be fine.

Hyrule I see as pretty damn good, though I certainly won't complain if you make them better, especially if you buff up Vanguards. My problem with Hyrule, and this applies to the Gerudo too, is that EVERYONE attacks them, usually early, and at the same time. Because of this, I think both factions, but especially Hyrule due to them being in the middle of the map need a very good starting army, with built up cities and infrastructure.

[Scar86]

The Triforce Vangaurd simply does not live up to expectations, and oftentimes are shamefully outclassed by their seemingly inferior brethren, the Ironclad Elites.

Shamefully outclassed.

Shame.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, the problem with the Kokiri is that they're supposed to be frail and weak individually, but they're insanely overpowered because, to be honest, the game is very, very unbalanced. I mean, only the Gorons are more overpowered. It would probably be better if I just ignored the mod until someone creates a Real Combat/Real Recruitment that's compatible with the game. But hey, i'm probably going to get flamed because I find gameplay and balance more important than ZOMG IT'S ZELDA!!!!!

Way to start the thread off right Diddly! XP



I agree, Although I am a huge zelda fan myself, I think Gameplay comes first.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I agree with you on most points, Korrigans need a major boost considering they are the shock troops protecting every other Fairy unit. Hell I usually have like 7 groups of them in a Fairy army.
*
Wind Witches are falsely labeled as Gerudadorf, while the REAL Gerudadorf could use a bit of buff, they die crazy fast, to the point it's usually more useful to have Maruders for the woman power, or pay more for some extra knuckles for the punch.
*
I find the Kokiri in general to be grossly OP across the board considering how they always take over half the map and kill off like 4-5 factions at least. Either everyone else needs a buff, or they need a faction wide nerf.
*
Ordona needs a faction wide buff I'd say. Rangers are the best unit they have by far I'd say, and I'd put them at the 3rd strongest bow unit in the game.
*
And I agree that Fokka are completely and utterly useless.
*
i find Geomancers to be extremely OP, i've had games where they have 1-3000 kills each in large games, while other wizzrobe units are lucky to break 50 kills.
*
Lanaryu could use a buff in general, especially the Guardian Maidens. I really don't think the stats need much improvement, I think some extra (wo)manpower and maybe a extra stat point or to and they'd be fine.
*
Hyrule I see as pretty damn good, though I certainly won't complain if you make them better, especially if you buff up Vanguards. My problem with Hyrule, and this applies to the Gerudo too, is that EVERYONE attacks them, usually early, and at the same time. Because of this, I think both factions, but especially Hyrule due to them being in the middle of the map need a very good starting army, with built up cities and infrastructure.

I agree that the Kingdom of Hyrule needs to have the Triforce Vangaurd buffed, and they need to have their infatructure upgraded to probably mid-Late game stuff. With at least 1 and a half Stacks of Bronze Chevron units. If they are going to withstand an attack from all sides. The City Capital should most likley be a Citadel, so it is difficult to capture, and the Forts that are on the borders need to be fortifed with soldiers.

[The Holy Pilgrim]

It would probably be better if I just ignored the mod until someone creates a Real Combat/Real Recruitment that's compatible with the game.

That's funny because that's what I'm doing

[Drachenfan]

The Gohma can´t spread their "religion", so you need giant armies to hold a captured settlement.

[RocjawCypher]

Gomahah and Siege Battles:

Ouch.

Let's just say that ladders slow your forces enough that only about 5 gomah get to the top of the wall every 2 seconds. When the infantry is designed so that 1 soldier is the equivilent of 5 gomahah to start? Basic infantry can hold the walls for an indefinite amount of time.

[Emrys]

Armaghoma are what you are supposed to use in siege battles. That or wait them out.

[Agent 51]

Gomahah and Siege Battles:

Ouch.

Let's just say that ladders slow your forces enough that only about 5 gomah get to the top of the wall every 2 seconds. When the infantry is designed so that 1 soldier is the equivilent of 5 gomahah to start? Basic infantry can hold the walls for an indefinite amount of time.

This could be fixed by maybe giving the Gohma a heavy infantry unit or siege unit.

I've had Bokoblin footmen (the worst and most useless of the Blins) hold off entire Gohma armies after the Bulbins took out the battering ram.

[Xebenkeck]

At whomever said the Geomancers are OP. Yes it may seem that way, but the Order of Wizzrobe in general can be realllllllllllllllllllly easily destroy by any decent amount of calvary units in an army. So they need something to give them prowess on the field. Which is they destroy infantry, but calvary completely and utterly destroys them.

[Mattwensley]

At whomever said the Geomancers are OP. Yes it may seem that way, but the Order of Wizzrobe in general can be realllllllllllllllllllly easily destroy by any decent amount of calvary units in an army. So they need something to give them prowess on the field. Which is they destroy infantry, but calvary completely and utterly destroys them.

Thing is, quite a few races have no access to cavalry. To name a few that come to mind:

Labrynna (adding insult to injury there - a ranged specialist faction, being outclassed at range?)
Stalfos
Darknut
Wizzrobes
Sheikah

There's others, but I haven't had a chance to play as them yet, so I'm not sure which is cavalry standing upright and which is heavy infantry with four legs!

[UndyingNephalim]

Thing is, quite a few races have no access to cavalry. To name a few that come to mind:

Labrynna (adding insult to injury there - a ranged specialist faction, being outclassed at range?)
Stalfos
Darknut
Wizzrobes
Sheikah

There's others, but I haven't had a chance to play as them yet, so I'm not sure which is cavalry standing upright and which is heavy infantry with four legs!

Factions without Cavalry will have some fast units that are not necessarily cavalry in their arsenal. Some don't in the version that's already released (like Ikana for instance), but they'll be there whenever I finish the next version.

I should note Labrynna is not a ranged specialist faction despite their gunners, Labrynna is actually the heaviest anti-cavalry faction in the game, sporting three spearmen units (Homeguards, Tokay Slaves, Palace Guards) and a barrier that completely halts cavalry charges (Gunner Posts). They are designed to bunker down and hold ground against charges.

[Mattwensley]

I should note Labrynna is not a ranged specialist faction despite their gunners, Labrynna is actually the heaviest anti-cavalry faction in the game, sporting three spearmen units (Homeguards, Tokay Slaves, Palace Guards) and a barrier that completely halts cavalry charges (Gunner Posts). They are designed to bunker down and hold ground against charges.

Ah, that makes sense. I forgot about anti-cavalry being a trait that an army could have. That should intrigue my brother though - he's been looking for something to break my unstoppable Ordona cavalry! Although, having used those gunner posts myself, I don't feel quite as confident anymore

[Xebenkeck]

miniblins single handedly break Ordonas calvary.

Also the Wizzrobe are surronded by 5 factions on the campaign map that sport Calvary, Hyrule, Gohma, Lanayru, Gorons and Gerudo.

[Agent 51]

Perhaps that could be fixed by making the Acolytes into Spearmen instead of Light Infantry?

Using sharpened Staves or the like?