Seleucid Empire?

[Lansa]

CA, please, PLEASE depict the Seleucids accurately this time. No more stopping the map at Susa nonsense. I see the map is going "further east"; please don't just make the game end in Persia instead. I want the whole of the Seleucid Empire included, as well as possibly some Indians and the Baktrians. In 272BC (assuming that's when the game starts) the Seleucid Empire was the dominant power in the map-area. Don't make them minnows that get eaten up by Armenia again.

Thanks

Anyone else agree?

[hekk]

Agreed.

The Seleucids should be the biggest faction around.

[Bobz]

As long as they're not overpowered then yes. Depending on the start date, it may be necessary to make the Seleucid Empire smaller than it was else they'll end up as a Superpower every game.

[rollinnse]

They certainly should be included accurately. The map should go to, at the very least, Bactra. It would be fairly easy to balance their starting position if the Creative Studios takes a page from Diadochi TW and has them beset by hostile Hellens in the West and an unruly, tiny population in the East. They are so much fun to play when done right, and also probably the most challenging large faction as well.

[IGdood]

The reason I played Seleucid back then was their incredible unit diversity, assuming you survived being attacked from all sides.

Pikes, legionnaires, scythed chariots, cataphracts, companion cavalry, heavy onagers, armored elephants....

Seriously, what don't they have?

[Holger Danske]

As long as they're not overpowered then yes. Depending on the start date, it may be necessary to make the Seleucid Empire smaller than it was else they'll end up as a Superpower every game.

Overpowered this, overpowered that. Please stop the non-sense people. The Seleucid had a very powerful and flexible military, yet they faced several strategical problems. Mods have successfully dipicted this and CA should follow this route.

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

Agreed. The Seleucids need to be depicted MORE accurately (although leeway must be given for gameplay of course); placing their eastern provinces under low loyalty might fix this problem (plus a war with the bactrians/eastern factions) - I did this in my RTW mod to counteract the Seleucid AI, and it worked well!

[Holger Danske]

The Seleucids will most likely be at war with the ptolemaic dynasty and they will have up to 4 potential enemies (Pontus, Parthia, Armenia, Pergamon) to their north, east, and west. Basically they're surrounded and way overstreched. This will present a player with many strategical problems.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

As long as they're not overpowered then yes. Depending on the start date, it may be necessary to make the Seleucid Empire smaller than it was else they'll end up as a Superpower every game.

Or just represent their internal difficulties by introducing high revolt risks and probably making much of their land vassals (like Atropatene, Elymais, Parthia, etc) rather than directly controlled by them.

[Xanthippus of Sparta]

CA, please, PLEASE depict the Seleucids accurately this time. No more stopping the map at Susa nonsense. I see the map is going "further east"; please don't just make the game end in Persia instead. I want the whole of the Seleucid Empire included, as well as possibly some Indians and the Baktrians. In 272BC (assuming that's when the game starts) the Seleucid Empire was the dominant power in the map-area. Don't make them minnows that get eaten up by Armenia again.

Thanks

Anyone else agree?

Oh yeah, I agree.

Hopefully they have a copy of Bar-Kochva's The Seleucid Army on hand.

With the Successors in general, I'd like to see military settlements handled in an interesting way but that seems doubtful, the focus will be mostly on Rome I bet.

However, the increased focus on individual units might be awesome for the Seleucids. Their elite troops, such as the Argyraspides, were very important historically.

Successor warfare is definately going to fit into what CA is trying to accomplish, as veteran phalangites were prized almost like a valuable commodity to the Diadochi. It would be sweet if you could capture the troops of another Greek-culture enemy and, instead of release/kill/enslave, incorporate them into your army.

What immediately made me think of the Seleucids is CA said they might make weapon loadouts customizable for some units. Which definately would be historically accurate for many of the elite Seleucid troops.

[Bobz]

Or just represent their internal difficulties by introducing high revolt risks and probably making much of their land vassals (like Atropatene, Elymais, Parthia, etc) rather than directly controlled by them.

That would be fine as well, it's just at the moment we have no idea how anything is going to work in Rome II. My main worry is that they will be too easy for the player (or the AI depending on it's bonuses) as the main game is generally easier than mods.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Oh yeah, I agree.

Hopefully they have a copy of Bar-Kochva's The Seleucid Army on hand.

Oh, you know how much I do agree with you. And concerning the customization of weapons, wouldn't it be awesome to be able to change the phalangites' weaponry back to swords when it comes to siege warfare or warfare in the mountainous East (like Antiochus' campaign in Hyrcania and Parthia)?

The Seleucids will most likely be at war with the ptolemaic dynasty and they will have up to 4 potential enemies (Pontus, Parthia, Armenia, Pergamon) to their north, east, and west. Basically they're surrounded and way overstreched. This will present a player with many strategical problems.

The odd thing with the Seleucids in most mods has been that they either kick too much arse or get destroyed too quickly. I think that balancing the Seleucids is gonna be one of the toughest challenges for CA.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

That could be done in Rome I too, you know, by not using the phalanx.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

That could be done in Rome I too, you know, by not using the phalanx.

Yes, I mean complete rearmament with larger shields and swords as well, so that they will be able to fight decently against enemy infantry in hand to hand combat.

[Xanthippus of Sparta]

Oh, you know how much I do agree with you. And concerning the customization of weapons, wouldn't it be awesome to be able to change the phalangites' weaponry back to swords when it comes to siege warfare or warfare in the mountainous East (like Antiochus' campaign in Hyrcania and Parthia)?

Definately, that was the example I thought of as well.

It would be interesting if in R2, there was an Argyaspid unit that could be equipped as a phalangite, a Thorkitai, or a Romanesque swordsman.

The odd thing with the Seleucids in most mods has been that they either kick too much arse or get destroyed too quickly. I think that balancing the Seleucids is gonna be one of the toughest challenges for CA.

We generally had this problem while making the early versions of Rome: Total Realism.

The Seleucids in Vanilla RTW had cool units but none of them were available quickly, and the Empire had about as much territory as it held much later, I'd say during the reign of Antiochus VII Sidetes (138-129 BCE). This was despite the fact the game began in 270 BCE.

Eventually, we made it so the Seleucids would lose most of their eastern provinces to Bactria/Parthia. But the catch was that if any power (other than the Ptolemies, really) fought the Seleucids 1v1 they were screwed. I remember a long ago game of RTR 6.0 when I was playing as Pontus where the Seleucid AI kept a detente with the Ptolemies and proceeded to destroy Parthia pretty early in the game. But, if the Seleucid player or AI picked a fight with multiple enemies on several fronts, they would be in serious trouble.

[Khannis]

Oh yeah, I agree.

Hopefully they have a copy of Bar-Kochva's The Seleucid Army on hand.

With the Successors in general, I'd like to see military settlements handled in an interesting way but that seems doubtful, the focus will be mostly on Rome I bet.

However, the increased focus on individual units might be awesome for the Seleucids. Their elite troops, such as the Argyraspides, were very important historically.

Successor warfare is definately going to fit into what CA is trying to accomplish, as veteran phalangites were prized almost like a valuable commodity to the Diadochi. It would be sweet if you could capture the troops of another Greek-culture enemy and, instead of release/kill/enslave, incorporate them into your army.

What immediately made me think of the Seleucids is CA said they might make weapon loadouts customizable for some units. Which definately would be historically accurate for many of the elite Seleucid troops.

I agree, that book is great, the best on its subject. I sincerely hope they consult some serious bibliography, including information about the warfare reforms, longer sarissas, "roman" style thorakitai (Daphne parade, etc.)

[Petroniu]

Well if they are going to make the AI as determined to kill the human player as they did in the already released TW games, playing a small faction neighboring the Seleucids might be a problem. Of course, better diplomacy might help you to get the Seleucids other enemies but if we consider the hell bent to kill you AI that we have in past games when they'd focus all of their resources for that, we are in deep playing against them as a small faction in the middle east. But we'll see how CA will do it. Following recent trends, I guess they will have the Seleucids start at war with somebody for sure (bet it's the Ptolemies ) and with internal strife too, so that could help the player to have time enough to build up considerable defenses.

[eighthgear]

As long as they're not overpowered then yes. Depending on the start date, it may be necessary to make the Seleucid Empire smaller than it was else they'll end up as a Superpower every game.

Larger doesn't mean more powerful. The Seleucid Empire should be very large, but remember, much of their land isn't that productive. This means that they shouldn't overpower everyone else based on size alone.